Are Jails Just Societys Way Of Getting Rid Of Undesirible People?

[TheLastMohican]

Wow.

As a mutt myself, I find this really insulting. I don't even know how to respond to statements like that...

Though the statement is probably wrong, I don't think it's meant to be offensive or any kind of put-down to mutts. It's about the genetic pros and cons of mixing genomes that have evolved separately for a long time.

 

[vidrigjatte]

No, it's because of Melanin, which is a pigment in the skin. Scandanavia sees comparatively little sun as compared with the tropical regions. You'll find that the people who traditionally live at the poles have less melanin than those who traditionally live closer to the equator. It's due to prolonged UV exposure over the course of generations.

Yes, and if I mix I loose that protection against the sun.

Being Scandinavian doesn't make you immune from HIV

No, I didn't say that. Maybe I write a bit sluggish, I am INFJ anyhow.
What I meant was, we have a natural protection against it, not immunity. I cannot come up with sources because they all are in Swedish..

I agree also with Satya that the closer you look at anyone the more you'll see. And society has so many Malum Prohibitum laws that it's impossible to go a single week without breaking a few, and as has been stated; "Ignorantia juris non excusat". Also, the more you look at a minority group, the less attention you're paying to the majority groups. The most important thing though, is the more you punish a community for Malum Prohibitum, the more you're destabalising that community, and the greater the chance of influencing people to malum en se to survive or through stress.

Yes, I know that's the case and I know that I suffer from it. But I know when I suffer from it. Numbers and statistics don't lie though. But again, I cannot come up with a reliable source due to mine being Swedish. And also, it's very hard to find any reliable sources in this "debate". The political correctness is staggering.

You're bringing up the topic of rape. Rape is an extremely controversial topic that polarises people against it. Unfortunately this is, more often than not, at the expense of looking objectively at figures, contexts, and what influenced it. There's a large number of rapes that don't get reported, and a large number of rapes that get reported that aren't actually rapes. Racial Bigotry, Passive Media, Social Pressure and jokes are the main reason why minorities are spotlighted for that crime when it's seems to be pretty evenly spread throughout all races.

No, it's not evenly spread throughout all races. Can you give me something on that? I'm sorry for not having any sources, but as stated before, they all are in Swedish.

In some Australian Aboriginal and other strongly Patriarchal societies, courting a woman involved raping her and dragging her back to your own clan. This wasn't seen as a bad thing. I'm not saying it isn't a bad thing, however stereotypes and racial myths are formed from early encounters and carry on long after such actions have ceased. Which is a possibility of where the prejudice has come from.

The prejudice is so overrated it's sick. That's the whole problem. How does prejudice make someone rape another human being? It is a touchy topic, and that's why I'm discussing it. Societies biggest problems are always coherent with taboos.
It IS a minority of the minorities that rapes, I am well aware of that, I have immigrant friends and so forth. The problem is that this thinking that the white male is a walking prejudice machine is the cause of all the problems of multiculturalism.

Again, I'm sorry for not coming up with any sources, especially when you have done a terrific job on it. If you can't post any hard numbers on rape, I'll just have to come back and search again for english numbers. It's pretty late here and I have to sleep.

 

[vidrigjatte]

Wow.

As a mutt myself, I find this really insulting. I don't even know how to respond to statements like that...

Well, on an individual level it doesn't have to be bad. But on the whole, it is not good.

And I'm sorry if you find it offensive. Many things in life are. The real problem is the government and the schools who don't teach this and say it's a bad thing. Don't take this wrong, I have nothing against mutts or something like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with you. It's just better off if racial intermixing didn't occur. On an individual level it really doesn't matter.

Why does paqistanis (sry spelling) find themselves not at home in Norway? Why does the same thing occur with turks in Sweden?
In Sweden, they don't feel Swedish enough. In Turkey, they don't feel Turkish enough.
Is this a good thing? Mixing people in the "all loving" multiculturalism and breeding grounds without roots and with feelings of insecurity?
I am certain a lot of this insecurity breed crime: the posion is in fact multiculturalism itself. It will never work quite the way we want it to.

I believe it's just a part of our human nature to exclude people from the "pack" who is racially mixed.

 

[vidrigjatte]

Maybe continuing intermixing races with other races would be like a big fat figurative middle finger to that mentality.

Yeah, really productive. Give the big fat middle finger to something you don't agree on and keep doing it. That's the way to create a constructive society.

 

[Shai Gar]

Numbers and statistics don't lie though.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881)

Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same figures to draw different conclusions.
Evan Esar (1899 - 1995)

I gather, young man, that you wish to be a Member of Parliament. The first lesson that you must learn is, when I call for statistics about the rate of infant mortality, what I want is proof that fewer babies died when I was Prime Minister than when anyone else was Prime Minister. That is a political statistic.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

Yes, and if I mix I loose that protection against the sun.

Actually no. No amount of interracial breeding will cause you to change your own genetic make-up, and it's the darker skinned humans who have the best protection against the sun, not lighter skinned.

Melanin protects against UV rays, which is why so many people from the equatorial regions have darker skin. The melanin levels in their ancestors increased over time to provide protection. It's a form of micro-evolution.

No, I didn't say that. Maybe I write a bit sluggish, I am INFJ anyhow.
What I meant was, we have a natural protection against it, not immunity. I cannot come up with sources because they all are in Swedish..

Yes, I know that's the case and I know that I suffer from it. But I know when I suffer from it. Numbers and statistics don't lie though. But again, I cannot come up with a reliable source due to mine being Swedish. And also, it's very hard to find any reliable sources in this "debate". The political correctness is staggering.

No, it's not evenly spread throughout all races. Can you give me something on that? I'm sorry for not having any sources, but as stated before, they all are in Swedish.

Again, I'm sorry for not coming up with any sources, especially when you have done a terrific job on it. If you can't post any hard numbers on rape, I'll just have to come back and search again for english numbers. It's pretty late here and I have to sleep.

Post your Swedish sources. We've got plenty of Scandinavian, and indeed even Swedish members who can translate them for us, and provide us information on the patrons who funded those studies.

The prejudice is so overrated it's sick. That's the whole problem. How does prejudice make someone rape another human being? It is a touchy topic, and that's why I'm discussing it. Societies biggest problems are always coherent with taboos.

It IS a minority of the minorities that rapes, I am well aware of that, I have immigrant friends and so forth. The problem is that this thinking that the white male is a walking prejudice machine is the cause of all the problems of multiculturalism.

Prove your argument, I'll prove mine. Societies biggest problems aren't its taboos, but the people who don't understand other viewpoints* and refuse to see from other points of view.

*or they see the other viewpoints, and just don't care.

 

[Bored Now]

Meh... it wasn't that serious and I didn't ask for validation. But I'll be sure to think fondly of your hypothesis on my way back to the Rape, Murder and AIDS convention I'm hosting this evening.

I'M JUST KIDDING!

Heh. This is a VERY SERIOUS discussion. About a VERY SERIOUS TOPIC. I happen to be allergic to such things. I'll see myself out. *curtsies and blow kisses*

 

[vidrigjatte]

Actually no. No amount of interracial breeding will cause you to change your own genetic make-up, and it's the darker skinned humans who have the best protection against the sun, not lighter skinned.

Yeah, of course, I know. I'm tired. But if I mix with a darker skinned person, he'll lose his protection against the sun, and I'll lose my way to soak up more sun.

Post your Swedish sources. We've got plenty of Scandinavian, and indeed even Swedish members who can translate them for us, and provide us information on the patrons who funded those studies.

Erhum.. I think it would be easier just to take rape numbers for blacks vs whites in the US, but the justice departments homepage is just incredibly well done and tender and freshly.



http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/sexoff/sexoff.html

Look for this:

Table 2. Characteristics of imprisoned rape and sexual assault offenders

I'll search more tomorrow.

Prove your argument, I'll prove mine. Societies biggest problems aren't its taboos, but the people who don't understand other viewpoints* and refuse to see from other points of view.

*or they see the other viewpoints, and just don't care.

Yes, and taboos is exactly why people can't think objectively (if the person is not stupid in the first case, or just don't care.)

 

[Shai Gar]

The real problem is the government and the schools who don't teach this and say it's a bad thing.

If what you meant here was "Just because it's offensive, doesn't mean it's a bad thing", then I'd be inclined to agree with you. However you probably didn't mean that...

Why does pakistanis find themselves not at home in Norway?
Why does the same thing occur with turks in Sweden?
In Sweden, they don't feel Swedish enough. In Turkey, they don't feel Turkish enough.

Because they aren't Swedish by development and very few people decide to actually integrate into the culture they move into. Mostly what happens is a person moves to a new country thinking that their new countries way of life and opportunities will be just what they're looking for. Then they run into a bit or a lot of hassle from the people living there and retreat inside themselves a little and find that it's a bit easier dealing with those of their own culture who might already be there. They ossify in their original culture and begin to forget why they actually came to THAT country.

However there are a lot of people who really do integrate into a culture, and many many more who try. These people shouldn't be insulted because of the minority.


Here's a nice little joke about two afghani men; one who tries to integrate into aussie life, the other who actually did.

While waiting to finalise their australian residental status, two Afghanistani men start chatting. As they part, they agree to meet in a years time and see who has adapted better to the australian way of life.

True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second, "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules, and we own a Holden VK Commodore."

The second man replies "Fuck off, ya towelhead."

Is this a good thing? Mixing people in the "all loving" multiculturalism and breeding grounds without roots and with feelings of insecurity?

I'm of the belief that each culture has a hell of a lot of merit to it, and ought to STAY in the area it developed. I love nearly all cultures but I grew up in an Aussie one and want to it to stay that way. Doubtless you're the same with your own culture. I also want to visit all the cultures on earth. I just hope they're not polluted with Americanism before I get there.

Multiculturalism isn't a good thing. Developing your own culture based on whatever you want it to be however, that's a good idea. I do that myself. My personal culture is based on French Aristocracy 1700's, English Gentlemen 1800's, American Invention pre WW2, Japanese Shintoism, and Chinese Mohism and Buddhism. I steal from Islamic Golden Age periodically as well.

But that's not multiculturalism, that's ShaiGarianism, which is the way it should be.

The posion is in fact multiculturalism itself. It will never work quite the way we want it to.

I quite agree with you here. People can make their own cultures but noone can successfully meld all the cultures together and force other people to use them instead of their own.

I believe it's just a part of our human nature to exclude people from the "pack" who is racially mixed.

No. It's a part of human nature to unthinkingly exclude people who are not visually a part of our group. Just because it's a prejudice, and it occurs before we have time to think about it, doesn't mean we shouldn't think about it and should automatically exclude people based on it.

 

[vidrigjatte]

Because they aren't Swedish by development and very few people decide to actually integrate into the culture they move into. Mostly what happens is a person moves to a new country thinking that their new countries way of life and opportunities will be just what they're looking for. Then they run into a bit or a lot of hassle from the people living there and retreat inside themselves a little and find that it's a bit easier dealing with those of their own culture who might already be there. They ossify in their original culture and begin to forget why they actually came to THAT country.

Yes.

However there are a lot of people who really do integrate into a culture, and many many more who try. These people shouldn't be insulted because of the minority.

Agreed.

Here's a nice little joke about two afghani men; one who tries to integrate into aussie life, the other who actually did.

While waiting to finalise their australian residental status, two Afghanistani men start chatting. As they part, they agree to meet in a years time and see who has adapted better to the australian way of life.

True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second, "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules, and we own a Holden VK Commodore."

The second man replies "Fuck off, ya towelhead."

Mwaha, very good.

I'm of the belief that each culture has a hell of a lot of merit to it, and ought to STAY in the area it developed. I love nearly all cultures but I grew up in an Aussie one and want to it to stay that way. Doubtless you're the same with your own culture. I also want to visit all the cultures on earth. I just hope they're not polluted with Americanism before I get there.

Multiculturalism isn't a good thing. Developing your own culture based on whatever you want it to be however, that's a good idea. I do that myself. My personal culture is based on French Aristocracy 1700's, English Gentlemen 1800's, American Invention pre WW2, Japanese Shintoism, and Chinese Mohism and Buddhism. I steal from Islamic Golden Age periodically as well.

But that's not multiculturalism, that's ShaiGarianism, which is the way it should be.

Eurgh, agree on the first part, the two second parts are entirely.. something.

No. It's a part of human nature to unthinkingly exclude people who are not visually a part of our group. Just because it's a prejudice, and it occurs before we have time to think about it, doesn't mean we shouldn't think about it and should automatically exclude people based on it.

The reasons why Turks don't see Swede-Turks as real Turks can be many, but the important thing is that it is very human to behave this way. We are nothing but animals and this is also something that humanity does not realize enough these days.



Now comment on the link I've presented, or post some numbers from the justice department if the one i've posted doesn't suit you or I'll try to find it again tomorrow. I'll read about the dog thingy tomorrow too (although I'm got a hunch that the reason intermixing dogs is good is because people aren't too sure which dogs are in risk of inbreeding or that mixed dogs work differently than others. If not - why doesn't intermixing occur in animals in nature? What's the difference there? And how does this stand up against evolution? Wasn't it good for me that my ancestors didn't mix so that I could have a light skin? If it is good that I have light skin in Scandinavia, why does it work differently with dogs? Why is it bad for them to not intermix?)

Good night.

 

[Shai Gar]

Now comment on the link I've presented, or post some numbers from the justice department if the one i've posted doesn't suit you or I'll try to find it again tomorrow.

I've already made my point. Your statistics are a lie perhaps not even told maliciously, but misrepresenting the truth.

Unreported rapes, or rapes ignored, those are still rapes in reality though not paper.
Falsely reported rapes, those are still rapes on paper, though not in reality.

Logic holds that in arguments such as these we need to take those factors into account.

Still, your arguments are faulty and you're creating your own reality. I won't argue in your reality unless I'm allowed to make things up too.

I'll read about the dog thingy tomorrow too (although I'm got a hunch that the reason intermixing dogs is good is because people aren't too sure which dogs are in risk of inbreeding or that mixed dogs work differently than others. If not - why doesn't intermixing occur in animals in nature? What's the difference there? And how does this stand up against evolution? Wasn't it good for me that my ancestors didn't mix so that I could have a light skin? If it is good that I have light skin in Scandinavia, why does it work differently with dogs? Why is it bad for them to not intermix?)

Humans are the same species... what you think of as races are actually just subspecies of homo sapiens.

 

[54192&#cmy]

Vid I never said that we should mix races. I was saying that each race has talents of their own. And every race has a place on the earth. If they did not why are they here? Nothing on this earth happens by accident. Evolution baby! I got no probs dating other races. Love is love....

I find arguing about race to be pointless. If you can learn to accept the fact that we all have a place on Earth and that we are products of continuing evolution. It seems silly to me to hate a group of people for just being who they have evolved to become. Why is it that mankind has to find a reason to hate each other? Why does it always come down to war? I know all the reasons so don't bother. I am talking about something that is bigger than all of us. Man kind needs to learn to accept and love others for who they are. I know there will always be murders and rapes and prisons. It's impossible I know I just want people to really look at the reasons why things are how they are. And if there is something society can do within reason to help people not fall into the cracks because of discrimination or hate we need to do something about it. We have a president who wrote about smoking weed and his enjoyment of it. Yet millions of Americans go-to jail for doing the same thing the president has admitted to doing in the past. If pot is so bad how did he become president? At least he inhaled. I bet Clinton wishes he would have now lol

 

[Satya]

Humans are the same species... what you think of as races are actually just subspecies of homo sapiens.

Actually, that isn't correct Shai. Mitochondria DNA testing has demonstrated conclusively that there is no genetic delineation between races. In fact, if vidrigjatte were to have his mitochondrial DNA tested, then there is a high probability that his genetic material would come very close to individuals of many varying races across the world. It's ironic that he holds the views he does when modern science has proven that he may genetically have more in common with a black man in Nigeria than one of his white neighbors.

 

[Shai Gar]

Hnnh...

So it's more akin to a brindle, fawn and apricot english mastiff then. Cheers, any websites to back that up so I can read further?

Also, Romans took black slaves to England, they gained freedom and bred with the natives. about 10% of White AngloSaxon England has African DNA.

 

[54192&#cmy]

Black Irish?

 

[Shai Gar]

No, the black Irish refers to a Hair Colour. When the Milesians invaded eire, they lent their hair colour to the natives...

Read the Caiseal Mor books for a fictional account.

 

[Satya]

Hnnh...

So it's more akin to a brindle, fawn and apricot english mastiff then. Cheers, any websites to back that up so I can read further?

Also, Romans took black slaves to England, they gained freedom and bred with the natives. about 10% of White AngloSaxon England has African DNA.

Actually, we all have African DNA. Every human being can trace their decent back to Africa. Have you heard of the Genographic Project?

[YOUTUBE]pyOS05GUze0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[54192&#cmy]

That's pretty cool I would like to know my DNA.

 

[Shai Gar]

Never heard of it, but it doesn't surprise me since we came from there originally.

I'm simply referring to a more recent influx.

 

[vidrigjatte]

Vid I never said that we should mix races. I was saying that each race has talents of their own. And every race has a place on the earth. If they did not why are they here? Nothing on this earth happens by accident. Evolution baby! I got no probs dating other races. Love is love....

Yes, I believe that too. Swedes should be in Sweden, Pakistanis should be in Pakistan.

I find arguing about race to be pointless. If you can learn to accept the fact that we all have a place on Earth and that we are products of continuing evolution. It seems silly to me to hate a group of people for just being who they have evolved to become. Why is it that mankind has to find a reason to hate each other? Why does it always come down to war? I know all the reasons so don't bother. I am talking about something that is bigger than all of us. Man kind needs to learn to accept and love others for who they are. I know there will always be murders and rapes and prisons. It's impossible I know I just want people to really look at the reasons why things are how they are. And if there is something society can do within reason to help people not fall into the cracks because of discrimination or hate we need to do something about it. We have a president who wrote about smoking weed and his enjoyment of it. Yet millions of Americans go-to jail for doing the same thing the president has admitted to doing in the past. If pot is so bad how did he become president? At least he inhaled. I bet Clinton wishes he would have now lol

Our place on earth largely has to do where we are born. That is a fact. No place is like home. Although everyone should travel and experience life and so on.

Where have I hated someone? This is just what people in general believe racial thinking is about.

Yes, drugs should be legal. I'm a liberal-nationalist.

 

[Creon]

Yes, I believe that too. Swedes should be in Sweden, Pakistanis should be in Pakistan.

I think youre just talking from a priviledged position. You think most Pakistanis leave Pakistan because they want to? I doudt that. The words "seeking a better future" doesn't always mean that people leave their country of origin simply because they don't like it. Most of the times it is because of their low probability to survive in that country. People who leave their country just because they "don't like it there", are usually the educated ones, who can easily be integrated in a foreign society.

And those immigrants who were forced to leave are the ones who usually come against social discrimination and isolation, usualy because they are not educated. And when a society cannot support economicaly a minority, then it is certain that that said minority will descend into crime in order to survive.

That's why I always say that migration needs serious economic and political calculations. If a society or it's economy is incapable of supporting a large
population of immigrants, then it should close it's borders. When France allowed the Algerian immigrants to migrate from Algeria, while it was statisticaly proven that it's economy could not support them, it was a certain thing that the immigrants would eventualy start rioting many years later in 2005(Blichy-sous-Bois). We need to be certain about the minority's future before we start accepting them and hope for any integration to take place.

Multiculturalism is just fine. It just needs moderation. Governments should plan their migration policies on data and economic analysis with society as a primary factor, and not on how they would win the upcoming elections(which is what usually happens). Even in the E.U, the Commision decided to allow membership to East European countries long before there existed an economic stability among the previous members, all for the sake of free passage of cheap labour force and financial exploitation of those countries. And the European High Integration cannot take place when the only thing we have in mind is how to expand in order to find new markets and cheap labor force. Economic and social stability comes first, expanding our influence comes second.

And all that bullshit about DNA... I will not even bother to give an answer to such an ignorant and absurd comment.