I read this on INTJforum.com under a thread titled "An INTJ's observations of INFJs"
TIME TO GET INTROSPECTIVE!! Haha
Your vote is anonymous. INFJs only on the poll, please. All are welcome to share comments though.
I want to talk about these observations. What are your reactions? These might be difficult to hear, but do you find that they are true for you? I also want to do a poll on number 4 about logical fallacies.
Ill write my personal response to each of the observations in my next post.
TIME TO GET INTROSPECTIVE!! Haha
Your vote is anonymous. INFJs only on the poll, please. All are welcome to share comments though.
I want to talk about these observations. What are your reactions? These might be difficult to hear, but do you find that they are true for you? I also want to do a poll on number 4 about logical fallacies.
Ill write my personal response to each of the observations in my next post.
"While there have been quite a few threads about INFJs on these forums, started either by INTJs or INFJs, some of them are rather old or just plain long, so I figured why not start a fresh one? Additionally, since INTJs and INFJs share three letters in common, and that they can sometimes be confused upon an initial meeting (I've confused an INFJ or two for an INTJ and I know--because I've been told--that INFJs have mistaken me for their own as well), why not, again, flesh out how INFJs seem different to us INTJs.
Also, some caveats. My observations are based on INFJs that I know or knew but are also based on what I have observed on various message boards about INFJs and posts from INFJs. My sample includes 'mature' and 'immature' INFJs, and I knew them at various points in my life, so I may have known them when I was 'less mature' than I am now (seeing as I don't think maturity is a definite feature, and it comes in degrees instead of having a precise terminus). Also, I don't intend (if my intentions in this even matter, as I am reporting observations and the observations are either true or false, irrespective of my intentions) to badmouth or trump up INFJs. I merely want to report what I've observed, and see if other INTJs have had similar observations (and perhaps INTPs, another close relative of us INTJs).
Lastly, when I refer to INTJs, I initially mean myself, but I think my generalization to all INTJs is fairly well supported, based on observations I've made about other INTJs, on these boards and elsewhere. So keep in mind that they are generalizations, not absolutes--I'm sure there are exceptions.
So here they are, in no special order:
1. INTJs and INFJs seem to agree that the world is a fairly messed up place, with wars, disease, etc. People are rarely sincere, have selfish motives, are frequently incompetent, and further, these features of people have bad consequences. However, our approach to this is radically different.
INTJs are quite ok with the world being screwed up, as long it doesn't interfere with our projects and goals, which may include somehow making the world a better place. Simply put, I don't lose sleep at night from the distress of the world being the way it is (although I may go without sleep trying to solve a problem --- puzzle about the world and solution to it. But this is akin to Sherlock Holmes obsessing about a mystery.... not that I compare to Holmes's brilliance).
INFJs, on the other hand, find the fact that the world is the way it is to be very very very distressing. Even if it doesn't directly impact them, just knowing that it is like that, and that it impacts others, is enough to cause them to collapse. For example, encountering someone who is insincere can cause them to question whether life is worth living, given that people are the way they are. They have to be coaxed into seeing how that doesn't have to keep them down, and that they can contribute to making it better than the way it is. Honestly, from an emotional standpoint, I have no idea what it is like to feel that. While understanding that the world can suck, I also know that there's not a whole lot I can do to make it better, but oh well.
2. There are two reactions that INFJs have to the T in INTJs. Either they believe that it isn't true, that deep down the INTJ is just like the INFJ but somehow suppressing it. If not that, then if they understand the T, that deep down the INTJ is NOT like the INFJ, then they think the INTJs are dead inside. We INTJs are psychopaths that just happen to not harm other people (except emotionally, because we are just so cold!). I think some of the more mature INFJs get that we aren't like INFJs but also aren't psychopath's (like many of the INFJs that post here).
On a side note, I generally find this reaction to be, well amusing. Then again, I usually don't really freaked out by someone calling me cold or a psychopath, just because I lack the 'passion' that they have. But I also know a bit about the cognitive functioning of psychopaths, and understand that it is NOT the same thing as an INTJ.
3. INFJs and INTJs mean two completely different things by the word 'understanding'. As an INTJ, I think I understand someone when I understand their position, understand the reasoning that lead them to hold that position, and understand the support they give to the premises in that reasoning. I can completely disagree with someone but still understand them. Vice versa for someone understanding me.
To an INFJ, however, someone understands *them only when someone *shares their intuitions and also shares their feelings towards whatever it is they are discussing. If someone disagrees with *them, then that person just obviously doesn't understand. However, an INFJ thinks they can understand someone else even if they disagree, via somehow empathizing with that person. So if you understand an INFJ, you agree, via shared intuitions and feelings with them, but an INFJ can understand you, not by understanding your reasoning, but seeing how you came to believe what you believe based on psychological and sociological factors. Which leads to...
4. I have had a very difficult time getting INFJs to understand certain types of logical fallacies, such as ad hominems, genetic fallacies, etc. Often when they disagree with me (which to them means I don't understand them ;p), even AFTER I've carefully articulated my reasoning behind my views, they resort to some type of psychological explanation of my belief, completely ignoring my reasoning. This is, of course, fallacious, but I've come to believe, sadly, that many INFJs are nearly (not entirely) incapable of seeing that this is fallacious (even one's that have studied logic!). At least, when others do it (say to them), it may be a fallacy, but when they do it, it's because they are ever so empathetic. I've experienced this on numerous occasions with persons I've known to be INFJs (they've taken the test) and seen it amongst INFJ posters on various internet boards.
5. This may be taken as fairly insulting, but it's *my observations, so here goes. INFJs can be dark. They can also be heavy. But they aren't always that *deep. Again, this is based on observations I've made of persons that I know are INFJs. For example, the world is a screwed up place - people are frequently very selfish and insincere. Is that a super deep judgement? I doubt it, but I may be biased - I'm getting a graduate degree in philosophy
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It seems plain obvios to me. It is, however, a dark judgment, especially when that's all you see. And it can be a *heavy discussion when that fact genuinely overwhelms you. But it's just not that deep. Don't get me wrong, I think Dostoyevsky is very deep, and that no doubt had a lot to do with his being an INFJ (at least most likely being an INFJ). And I have no doubt that many INFJs are capable of being deep. But the fact that they can frequently be dark and heavy doesn't make them deep. To be deep that need to take it further (and I usually have to coax them into, well RESEARCHING their concerns instead of just emoting them ;P to get them to that point).
6. INFJs and INTJs can both read people, but what we read and how it affects us differs a lot. I tend to judge someone's competence, and that stands out more glaringly than their motives. In other words, I can be friends with an asshole if he or she has something else to offer. I'll get frustrated by incompetence, especially if it interferes with my goals, but I won't get overwhelmed the way an INFJ would by someone's say, insincerity.
INFJs tend to read someone's sincerity though, more than (if at all) their competence. And a lack of sincerity, even if it doesn't, well directly impact say their goals or daily tasks, still heavily affects them. Too much insincerity, and they can seem downright crazy - like need to be locked in the 7th floor crazy -- at least to *this INTJ.
I have many more observations, but I've also written way too much already for an internet board Feel free to critique, add on, append, amend, etc these observations. I'm especially curious if other INTJs have noticed this. "
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