An INTJ's observations of INFJs | INFJ Forum

An INTJ's observations of INFJs

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by RRiveter, Apr 2, 2015.

Share This Page

?
  1. Yes, and I try to avoid them in discussions.

    19 vote(s)
    63.3%
  2. Yes, but I don't really think about them during discussions.

    7 vote(s)
    23.3%
  3. I am not familiar with them, but would like to know more about them.

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. I am not familiar with them and I am not really interested in them.

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 1 user.
More threads by RRiveter
  1. RRiveter

    RRiveter Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    130
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    587
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5w6
    I read this on INTJforum.com under a thread titled "An INTJ's observations of INFJs"

    TIME TO GET INTROSPECTIVE!! Haha

    Your vote is anonymous. INFJs only on the poll, please. All are welcome to share comments though.

    I want to talk about these observations. What are your reactions? These might be difficult to hear, but do you find that they are true for you? I also want to do a poll on number 4 about logical fallacies.

    Ill write my personal response to each of the observations in my next post.



     
    #1 RRiveter, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  2. SealHammer

    SealHammer Flying Quesadilla

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Threads:
    14
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    587
    MBTI:
    DOPE
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sx/so
    I don't think there are many (healthy) INFJs who willfully eschew the pursuit of logical consistency in their beliefs and arguments. The mind straight-up isn't wired to function like that without some serious, unavoidable cognitive dissonance.

    I can't speak for everyone, but I know I personally try to maintain a foundation of reason in the things that I do. If that foundation shows itself to be unstable or I don't build off it properly, I always try to go back and understand where I made a mistake and how to correct it so it doesn't happen again. This means that if I'm not really focused in on a debate and I talk some shit, I often find myself making concessions to those who are more diligent. This is also why I don't debate unless I'm sure I'm prepared to dominate everyone else in the discourse.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #2 SealHammer, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  3. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I find that INTJ's talk a good game about being 'logical' but I have debated with many of them over the years and i find that many of them are not actually thinking that logically

    The really dogmatic ones basically come very much from the intellect in a very imbalanced way which is akin to dealing with a brain damaged person
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. SpecialEdition

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Threads:
    110
    Messages:
    6,735
    Featured Threads:
    21
    Likes Received:
    22,063
    Trophy Points:
    2,481
    Location:
    Here
    MBTI:
    INFeJ
    Enneagram:
    None
    I enjoyed this very much.
     
  5. OP
    RRiveter

    RRiveter Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    130
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    587
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5w6
    My detailed critique of the INTJs observations. Part 2 coming soon.

    1. I agree that the world is a fucked up place, but it is also incredible. Especially with as much privilege as living in the U.S. grants me.

    I once had a short depression back when I first started college and found out about the details of how we degrade our environment, and about the inequalities in the world and how truly shitty many people's lives are. It was a lot to learn, all at once.

    Before and after that experience, I don't find details about the world crippling. In fact, I am almost always the idealist in the group, saying we could this.. or this..! or this..! I love to talk about how we can solve the complex problems of the world and talk policy.

    However, certain topics cause me to tear up when I hear about them. I hide this reaction well and I do not talk about it with other people. For example, I started to tear up in class, a few weeks ago, when we learned about refugee camps, how poor their quality of life is within the camps and about all the loss they have to cope with. I dislike how intensely I feel about certain topics. Sometimes loud party music or beautiful music can make me tear up also, its really strange. This happen to anyone else?


    If someone starts to question whether life is worth living from encountering an insincere person.. Ummm. They are likely very depressed and need help, INFJ or not.
    When I encounter or have to deal with insincere people, I like to bitch about it and talk it out with others. (Maybe that is where the INTJ is getting worried here?) Interestingly enough, I usually ask my INTJ friend what a reasonable response to the person would be.

    2.
    I can see how an INFJ would come to the conclusion that an INTJ is suppressing their feelings. I might have come to that conclusion when I was young. (High School and younger) Now that I am older, I know my intuitions need reality checks. I love the fact that INTJs don't have the crazy level of feels that INFJs sometimes have. I like people that are considered "cold" by others because this usually means they are rational thinkers and I can learn to develop my T from them or get good advice on how to handle situations. This also means that I can be very direct and honest and they will not lash out with strong emotions at me. So invaluable.

    3.
    This INTJ is correct on the fact that I feel understood when someone understands my intuitions and feelings and I feel I can understand others by empathizing with their intuitions and feelings.
    However, I also highly value when someone will listen and ask questions about my logical reasoning and supporting evidence for my position, especially if it is an academic or political discussion. Though I sometimes struggle to express my thoughts confidently in this way because I feel people will take my "cold" reasoning and support as me being an asshole, especially being a woman. Many types have reacted this way to me and people I know.
    I am very capable of understanding based on anothers reasoning and supporting evidence. (Maybe INFJs who haven't had a strong education (that teaches us T) may not be as capable.)
    However, I do employ this method of understanding people as well, often when their position makes no logical sense. Like my mom being racist, for example. I understand why she would believe certain things based on the era in which she grew up, her limited education, and psychological trauma she endured as a child. Its not ok that is racist, but I understand her.
     
    #5 RRiveter, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  6. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    The evil empire was very competant at building planetoid sized lazer ships (big cock extensions) that can destroy whole planets but they weren't so good at deciding if it was morally or ethically responsible to blow planets to smithereens

    We currently live in a coporate dominated world that is moving all the wealth away from the people and to the CEO's and shareholders of the corporations

    As the stats show some types earn more than others...these types are the CEO's and corporate types

    You can speak to them online and they say things like: ''i don't really care what other people are feeling, i'm more focussed on my own game''

    Here's a glimpse of the world these people would build and are building because they lack a rounded intelligence; they are imbalanced and think that wealth and power is everything

    If people only care about 'competance' but don't care about motives this is what we get:

    [video=youtube;WfGMYdalClU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGMYdalClU[/video]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    SealHammer likes this.
  7. OP
    RRiveter

    RRiveter Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    130
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    587
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5w6

    I think this is what happens when we don't measure people by their competence. *cough Ted Cruz *cough
     
  8. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    That would be a mistake to think that

    Politicians don't screw the world up because they are stupid or incompetent....they are not. They are doing exactly as they are told to do by their corporate overlords who fund their political campaigns
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. nosferatu

    nosferatu Community Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Threads:
    26
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    1w9
    From personal experience...

    INTJ literally bubble over with emotion and become softies if you've earned the privilege with them. INFJ's are more casually kinder with everyone. Again this is just an observation, not some universal truth haha.

    Just don't be stupid with the INTJ and try your best to make sense. If it is a heated emotional reason for you, make it clear that you are discussing this aspect to them because emotionally it is important to you. Once you do, the INTJ will likely gladly emotionally support you, though he/she may not agree with you, and expect them to be honest with you about this.

    I think to a degree an INFJ will stop and hint a bit to see if you are following their train of thought - where-as the INTJ will just steamroll you with their mind to show they have thought everything through, and keep in mind they are telling you this because they care about you, if they didn't they probably wouldn't waste the energy telling you.

    INTJ and INFJ differences tossed aside, both are extremely visionary human beings, just may convey their message much differently.


    Also I think INTJ don't really suppress their feelings, there's probably one person in specific they bubble over towards, but if you aren't that person, they may just not even consciously think of sharing their emotions. Like, people could take it as the INTJ being a freezer, but really they probably weren't even thinking about how they felt and if they even wanted to share emotions in the first place. Also I think their emotions show through what they do, and through what they do for others. For the INFJ sometimes I think the feelings show more genuinely when the person they are with is genuine to themselves, values, and interactions with the people in their life.

    And I think the INTJ is actually much more prone to becoming dark, but isn't actually aware he/she is appearing that way to others, or aware he/she is being dark in the first place. Which is why it is so adorable.
     
  10. nosferatu

    nosferatu Community Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Threads:
    26
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    1w9
    Also uuuhm...

    The INTJ I know irl are refreshingly human, some of the kindest people I've known, and don't really apply to internet stereotypes. They have been my closest comrades.

    They aren't really deep at all, although the way their minds work/think things through could appear ridiculously deep and profound to some.
     
  11. OP
    RRiveter

    RRiveter Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    130
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    587
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5w6

    So.. 2 and 5?

    As a fellow INFJ, I understand wanting to speak up about things that seem morally wrong and that may lead to negative outcomes, but your response seems to prove the INTJ is correct about some observations.

    2. You seem to be drawing a connection between INTJs ( or just Ts) and CEO or corporate types? Not being well-rounded enough to have goals other than wealth or power? If this is what you meant to say, then he is right about mistaking or misunderstanding T.

    As a side note, claiming the blame is on CEO or corporate "types" is too simple. They are all different and likely have different motives. CEO of apple is advocating for gay rights at the moment and Apple is using their influence to fight against laws of discrimination like the one Indiana is proposing. Large companies are complaining that if states get to vote on their own discrimination laws that companies will be inconvenienced because they will have to change their businesses to cater to all of the state's differing laws. Also, some corporations don't want to open shop in states with discriminatory laws because they know that smart people are attracted to places with a good quality of life. The social equity laws in a state can actually make places less attractive to large corporations. This is a good link to learn more about this. http://thedianerehmshow.org/audio/#...freedom-laws-around-the-country/109733/@00:00

    Yes, lobbying presidential candidates is a bad thing, but it is allowed in our current political system. Additionally, this can also be a good thing as in the case of Apple. Your post speaking out about it has sweeping, generalizing statements and a doomsday feel that I find unappealing. Which seemingly confirms the INTJs 5th point...

    5. Being dark, emoting our frustrations about the world, instead of showing that we have researched topics well.
     
  12. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I have spoken to INTJ's for years here on this forum

    5 years and almost 10,000 posts

    I can't tell you how many debates i have had with how many people on how many different subjects.....a lot

    The people i clash with the most are INTJ's

    Occaisionally an ENTJ but there don't seem to be nearly as many ENTJ's about as there are INTJ's

    INTJ's seem to be unending in number; perhaps they are refugees from the INTJ forum, i don't know. But they come often with some very strong opinions but not always with very good knowledge or understanding

    I'm not saying all INTJ's are like that but i'm telling you i have met A LOT like that

    I'm talking about power

    Corporations are one way in which power manifests



    So what?

    It will be a great PR coup for apple

    Apple is sitting on a cash mountain of i think $150 billion and paid NO tax in the UK

    Fuck apple


    Speak with me more and see if i have researched well
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #12 muir, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  13. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    http://www.latinpost.com/articles/3...er-reportedly-believes-apple-iphone-spies.htm

    Edward Snowden News: NSA Whistleblower Reportedly Believes the Apple iPhone Spies on Users

    Edward Snowden says the Apple iPhone has some software installed in it that allows governments to spy on people without their knowledge.


    Snowden, who was a NSA whisteblower, does not use an iPhone because of fears of being spyed on, his lawyer revealed, The Independent reports.

    "Edward never uses an iPhone, he's got a simple phone," Anatoly Kucherena reportedly told Russian news agency RIA Novosti. "The iPhone has special software that can activate itself without the owner having to press a button and gather information about him, that's why on security grounds he refused to have [an iPhone]."
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. j654dgj7

    j654dgj7 Please delete this account.

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Threads:
    66
    Messages:
    3,220
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,239
    Trophy Points:
    440
    MBTI:
    XXXX
    They've got a point.
     
  15. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Can i ask who that is in your avatar?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. j654dgj7

    j654dgj7 Please delete this account.

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Threads:
    66
    Messages:
    3,220
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,239
    Trophy Points:
    440
    MBTI:
    XXXX
    The insatiable Fiona Apple

    [video=youtube;u09s0uz0tEU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u09s0uz0tEU[/video]
     
  17. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Do you think it is strange that she is highlighting her eye like that?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. j654dgj7

    j654dgj7 Please delete this account.

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Threads:
    66
    Messages:
    3,220
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,239
    Trophy Points:
    440
    MBTI:
    XXXX
    How do you mean? Like how she's resting her hand on her face?

    sorry to derail the thread, just curious where this leads
     
  19. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Yeah...you know...the way she is posing for the photo

    Like for example look at this photo of malcolm X:

    malcolm-x-1.jpg

    You see the way he is pointing to his eye?

    You see the black and white background? The symbology of the ring on his hand...the crescent moon and the pentagram?

    He is pointing to his eye....this is a way of saying to people who understand: ''i have the eyes to see'' (I understand the game, the symbols and the way the world works)

    See here karl marx tucking his hand into his top:

    Karl-Marx-3.jpg

    See how he tucks his hand into his top? That is his way of indicating that he is part of the 'hidden hand' secret society network. He worked, in london, under their protection on his writings.

    See here an image of a freemason giving the hand sign for those with the eyes to see:

    freemason.PNG

    So you have there a pop singer highlighting her eye...this is not random or coincidental

    It means that she is under the control of the forces that control the pop culture through the mass media corporations

    ILLUMINATI+celebrities-+hand+covering+eye+-+all+seeing+eye+gesture+lady+gaga.JPG

    [​IMG]

    Look at a mass media company symbol for example

    Here is CBS:

    cbs.jpg

    So what is there? An eye...to the left of the letters 'cbs'.....right?

    Here is media company AOL's symbol:

    images.jpeg

    ...an eye in the pyramid

    Ok and where does the money behind the media come from? It comes from the financial sector. Here is the symbology on the back of their dollar bill that they print (printed by private banks not by the government)

    dollar-bill-eye-pyramid.jpg

    Here's pop star jay z flashing the pyramid hand sign and wearing his 'do as thou wilt' alesiter crowley top:

    Jay-Z+Aleister+Crowley+Hand+Sign.jpg

    These are subtexts to reality

    I read them easily but INTJ's in my experience cannot. Often they dismiss it as 'crazy' or something like that

    Their minds cannot operate well at that level of perceiving because they lean too heavily on their left hemisphere of their brain.

    They use their left brain well for certain tasks so they develop an impression that they are very clever (and they do have competancy in left brain areas) but to an INFJ they seem like a blind person who cannot see past the end of their nose

    This kind of psychic technology can be used for good or bad depending in the intent of the practitioner

    Unfortunately ENTJ's and often INTJ's have that frustrated ''i am a genius....the world MUST recognise my genius'' thing going on and it then manifests as power seeking when they find that people do not accept them so well...it turns to bitterness and that is the path to the dark side

    INFJ's too are often outcasts but there is something in the INFJ make up that tends to turn them the other direction into protectors rather than people seeking some sort of vindictive revenge against the world
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #19 muir, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  20. Eventhorizon

    Eventhorizon Permanently relocated
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Threads:
    251
    Messages:
    16,541
    Featured Threads:
    31
    Likes Received:
    10,280
    Trophy Points:
    2,187
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    I do not know how accurate this is but I will say it sounds accurate to me. However I would go further and say that logical fallacies and how you describe them are not the soul domain of infjs. My experience is that this type of thing affects the greater population of the world. You can show someone truth, facts and proof of something. ..the person can appear to be intelligent but if they dont want to believe it for whatever reason it will be as if they never saw any of it.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
Loading...

Share This Page