Right at the outset I just want to say that because you have given the longest and most thought out answer, I want to play devils advocate. You don't have to play along if you don't wish. I thought most of it had a good thought process behind it and am just looking to clairify/qeustion a few things. No offense intended here =).
Sure
No offense taken, and never taken really. When I get into discussions I also hope no one gets offended by me either. This is a lot more interesting to me than what I should be doing now anyway (sadly, working
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Why the emphasis on learning? What is the goal of learning everything? To eliminate suffering perhaps?
That's a fair question. I guess my basic assumption is that we are here on this Earth to learn and better ourselves. That's the value that guides me. People have different values, I suppose.
Why do I assume that? Because our minds seem so equipped for learning. A child learns naturally, it always wants to learn. We get older, and we learn more about life, about other people, about the world. It just seems very hard-wired. So, I think we are all here on planet Earth to learn. Like I said, this is my assumption, I have no evidence for this other than what I just wrote.
What is the greater good in this scenario?A means to what? I am assuming that it is to contribute to the greater good?
The greater good -- hm..I don't think there is any greater good than just treating everyone as a human being. We are all ends, not means...like Kant (I think??) said. The worst thing you can do to someone else is to treat them as a means, because then you dehumanize them. You make them less than human, they become some tool for you. That is really a great sin in my eyes (of which I still do all too often).
Learning is so important because it allows each of us, individually, to expand our minds at our own individual levels. We learn the lessons we need to. I don't mean, "learning everything" as in learning all knowledge. You can't learn all knowledge, even the Internet today, as vast as it is, doesn't contain all knowledge. We should be learning wisdom. Wisdom is different than knowledge, and we are all learning our own wisdom at our own time at our own level.
Not that I am a warmonger or anything, but is making everyones life easy and leisurely really in everyones best interests? People grow through resistance after all, not from laying on the couch.
I agree -- but life will do that for us. Life is a challenge. Today, this is what we try and do. We equate leisure with sitting on the couch and growing fat. I certainly don't mean leisure in that sense! Only a very tiny percentage of people today get to have this leisure. Billions of people today live in poverty and toil in sub-human conditions. In the US today we are 5% of the population but use 25% of all resources! that is the price we must pay if we want to build our lives around the TV and the couch. And we have to build a global empire to keep the oil running so that we can have big flat screen TVs. so this leisure has really destroyed us, destroyed our humanity, because we don't care about anything other than this sensory stimulation. how many millions of people have died as a result of our need for cheap energy? so many...yet we couldn't care less.
So I should take a step back and explain myself a little more. Life is already filled with so many challenges. So many of us today are ill equipped for death, separation, pain and suffering. But we can minimize the pain that we inflict on each other. There's no reason for any of that. Today so much pain and suffering is caused by human violence against others, and for no reason really.
If you watch kids, you know that when they mature through their childhood they begin to take on so many of the thought patterns which they will struggle with throughout their lives. By the time they are 10 they have all the insecurities and fears and anxieties which will cause them trouble for so many decades. That is a great shame, and this is what I mean by the struggle of life. So, we can create the conditions whereby we can cope with these negative influences and live lives of real and powerful freedom. This is what I mean by learning, as well.
The freedom to make grievous mistakes that result in people dieing?
Mistakes are a sign of growth. I don't see how we can prevent mistakes from ever happening -- they are part of the human condition. A mistake means our intention was noble but the result was bad. That is always a hallmark of inexperience. Thus, only experience can cure this. We have to let people make mistakes in order for them to grow. Now, obviously I don't mean we just let people run around aimlessly causing problems. Basic learning means taking responsibility for your actions, learning to use your reason so that you can think about what's the best thing to do in a situation, learning your intuition to feel out an answer (very under taught in my opinion!!), etc. But once you give someone these basic tools, you cannot prevent mistakes. Mistakes are OK. The important thing is just not to make the same mistake twice. That is a much bigger sin than making the first original mistake.
Today, people make mistakes and pay with their lives. In my noble but dying state, if you commit three felonies you go to jail for life! That is not reasonable, but this is what people seem to want. How is that a benefit for anyone? The state pays so many hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for an inmate and their medical care, etc just so that they can rot in prison forever. Why not reform the man and make him productive? No one wants to rot like that. It is a complete lose-lose.
We are in this situation because we are so afraid. We see society is falling apart but we don't want to deal with it. We just want to lock people up, or kill them with capital punishment. Such a bizarre reaction. Yes, sometimes people make horrendous mistakes, mistakes that warp people, that cost lives, that leave so much suffering the world. But why then make the second mistake of punishment? Punishment doesn't do anything. The criminal who is punished will not repent, he will be bitter that he was caught, that's all; and when he is out, he will repeat his offenses over and over. Then the society suffers, more victims suffer, even the criminal suffers as well. This is the worst possible outcome.
