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Americans right to protect themselves

@Eventhorizon, what do you think is the issue?

I'm leftist, and not anti-gun. I have guns, and I would prefer not to be without one in the area I live in – hundreds of acres of thick, wild forest with farms cut into the woods here and there.

I am pro-socialized health care and believe mental health is a serious issue in this country that contributes to gun violence and mass shootings. Economics, and the myth that all Americans deserve more than they have (and will get it if they work hard) contributes. Propaganda spread by the media and political parties also create warped mentalities on both sides of the divide and more animosity than there should be.

As a person who has lived in both rural and metropolitan settings, I believe the biggest issue in the gun argument is lack of culture understanding between city and rural people. Having lived in the city, I've seen gun violence, gun fetishism, and irresponsibility, and I refused to have a gun there even though I saw guns pulled on people more than a handful of times.
Having lived in the country as well, I do not want to live without a gun here. My experience in rural areas is that rural people understand that guns are tools, respect them, and... at least... did not fetishize them until the gun debate became what it is now. Most people I know in the country have guns, regardless of political ideology, economic class, age, race, and gender.

In my new area, I haven't met anyone who hunts, but they all have guns. I hear gunfire almost daily, especially on weekends.

I know a lot of city people who have guns as well, both on the left and right.

I don't think you understand Democrats at all - regarding the statement you made about why they are anti-gun.
It would also be helpful if you acknowledged that the Democratic party is not left, it is moderate, and a huge percentage of leftwing people don't believe the Dems represent them.

Faye is right. The anti-gun movement is fueled by incidents like the terrorist attack in Las Vegas last night, Sandy Hook, the Pulse nightclub shooting, Columbine, etc.

There has to be some kind of new gun regulation, but it has to be something that takes the cultures, lifestyles, and safety of all Americans into consideration. Right now the argument keeps shoving back and forth, gaining or losing an inch on either side. Nothing is resolved, and domestic terrorism continues.

edited only for typos.
 
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acd said:
Well what do you think it could be? Because this is a very common occurrence, unfortunately. And they are not tools like cars. Totally different purposes.
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They are absolutely tools. No question about it.
It's hardly a common occurrence. There are over 400 million people in the US. It just seems common because people tend to focus on tragedy to the point it gets burnt in their head deeper than others. As an example people probably remember how the event of 911 played out far better than their birthday the next year or any other positive event with the exception of someone's birth.
 
Eventhorizon said:
They are absolutely tools. No question about it.
It's hardly a common occurrence. There are over 400 million people in the US. It just seems common because people tend to focus on tragedy to the point it gets burnt in their head deeper than others. As an example people probably remember how the event of 911 played out far better than their birthday the next year or any other positive event with the exception of someone's birth.
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Again...armor piercing bullets are not hunting tools.
Fully auto assault rifles are not hunting tools.
Trying to legalize silencers - a bill currently in Congress - is not a hunting tool.
Unlimited rounds of ammo - this guy must have had at least 1000 rounds - not a hunting tool.
Those things need to be regulated in a much better way than we are currently doing.
I am not for taking anyone’s guns away, but we do need to restrict certain people and certain types of weapons.
It’s just common sense.
 
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Asa said:
@Eventhorizon, what do you think is the issue?

I'm leftist, and not anti-gun. I have guns, and I would prefer not to be without one in the area I live in – hundreds of acres of thick, wild forest with farms cut into the woods here and there.

I am pro-socialized health care and believe mental health is a serious issue in this country that contributes to gun violence and mass shootings. Economics, and the myth that all Americans deserve more than they have (and will get it if they work hard) contributes. Propaganda spread by the media and political parties also create warped mentalities on both sides of the divide and more animosity than there should be.

As a person who has lived in both rural and metropolitan settings, I believe the biggest issue in the gun argument is lack of culture understanding between city and rural people. Having lived in the city, I've seen gun violence, gun fetishism, and irresponsibility, and I refused to have a gun there even though I saw guns pulled on people more than a handful of times.
Having lived in the country as well, I do not want to live without a gun here. My experience in rural areas is that rural people understand that guns are tools, respect them, and... at least... did not fetishize them until the gun debate became what it is now. Most people I know in the country have guns, regardless of political ideology, economic class, age, race, and gender.

In my new area, I haven't met anyone who hunts, but they all have guns. I hear gunfire almost daily, especially on weekends.

I know a lot of city people who have guns as well, both on the left and right.

I don't think you understand Democrats at all - regarding the statement you made about why they are anti-gun.
It would also be helpful if you acknowledged that the Democratic party is not left, it is moderate, and a huge percentage of leftwing people don't believe the Dems represent them.

Faye is right. The anti-gun movement is fueled by incidents like the terrorist attack in Las Vegas last night, Sandy Hook, the Pulse nightclub shooting, Columbine, etc.

There has to be some kind of new gun regulation, but it has to be something that takes the cultures, lifestyles, and safety of all Americans into consideration. Right now the argument keeps shoving back and forth, gaining or losing an inch on either side. Nothing is resolved, and domestic terrorism continues.

edited only for typos.
Click to expand...
My statement may or may not apply to you concerning antigun Democrats. Its my opinion it's accurate of most. I think it's one of my better deductive intuitions actually. What do I think is the issue with people using guns to kill other nonthreatening people? Ignorance and mental illness. As an example, how and why do people kill other people for no other reason than they don't subscribe to the same religion? Something that has no physical presence in the world. Something that is only an ideal housed in a lump of tissue? How can another person kill some over nothing but a thought?
Something does need to be done with gun laws. The federal government needs to hold all states to the law of the Constitution. Allow law abiding citizens to carry weapons safely however they see fit. That should be the law of the land. Let's see how willing someone is to start firing if they know they'll get off one shot tops before they are dropped.
 
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Eventhorizon said:
Something does need to be done with gun laws. The federal government needs to hold all states to the law of the Constitution. Allow law abiding citizens to carry weapons safely however they see fit. That should be the law of the land. Let's see how willing someone is to start firing if they know they'll get off one shot tops before they are dropped.
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Just like the wild west again?
Seems perfectly sane.
Are we going in circles here?
More guns in people’s hands is not going to prevent more gun violence.
There is zero data that shows that - on the contrary there is a lot that says just the opposite.
 
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acd said:
obviously it is a tool.
I'm talking about the intent. I have guns. My family has guns. And I understand them to be tools that are intended to kill or injure; whether you are hunting animals or using it for home defense. Let's not pretend that you can use a gun to light a campfire it done how blast off to work on one lol. The US has the highest rate of mass shootings; even out of countries where citizens have access, like I said earlier. That's a problem. We should figure out what the root of it is and work on it.
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Really? I have guns. I have excellent aim in both long guns and hand guns. I have never once used any to kill anything. I do understand using guns for hunting. Its far far more nobel and honorable to use a gun for hunting than it is going to your grocery store and purchasing a package of meat.
Intent? If that's all we are talking about then the gun argument is irrelevant. Intent can be placed on anything.


Edit: At the risk someone recalls a story I told here, I killed a bird with a pellet gun when I was 15 or so
 
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Eventhorizon said:
They are absolutely tools. No question about it.
It's hardly a common occurrence. There are over 400 million people in the US. It just seems common because people tend to focus on tragedy to the point it gets burnt in their head deeper than others. As an example people probably remember how the event of 911 played out far better than their birthday the next year or any other positive event with the exception of someone's birth.
Click to expand...
Clearly they are tools. I'm talking about purpose. Do you buy a gun to warm your house or light your grill or use a shotgun to blast off to work. I don't really have a problem with guns, but I have a problem with the wrong people having access. I think we agree on that from what you've posted in this thread. I understand your point that any psycho can run people down or build a bomb if they want, though. And that happens, too. But in the US, our citizens murder each other (en mass, at times) with guns. And like I said, US has highest rate of mass shootings... Even out of countries where citizens can legally have access. That's the problem.

Eventhorizon said:
Something does need to be done with gun laws. The federal government needs to hold all states to the law of the Constitution. Allow law abiding citizens to carry weapons safely however they see fit. That should be the law of the land. Let's see how willing someone is to start firing if they know they'll get off one shot tops before they are dropped.
Click to expand...
Look up Nevada gun laws. I just did. They didn't make those victims any safer yesterday. The guy was in a hotel room, not among the crowd, too.
 
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acd said:
Clearly they are tools. I'm talking about purpose. Do you buy a gun to warm your house or light your grill or use a shotgun to blast off to work. I don't really have a problem with guns, but I have a problem with the wrong people having access. I think we agree on that from what you've posted in this thread. I understand your point that any psycho can run people down or build a bomb if they want, though. And that happens, too. But in the US, our citizens murder each other (en mass, at times) with guns. And like I said, US has highest rate of mass shootings... Even out of countries where citizens can legally have access. That's the problem.


Look up Nevada gun laws. I just did. They didn't make those victims any safer yesterday.
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I'm waiting to see. Public venues and stores here in VA can deny people walking into them with guns. I do not know of a concert that will let you in with a gun.
Having a gun certainly helped people at the church shooting a couple days ago.
.
 
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I'm going to buy a gun and shoot everyone that has a gun. That way, we'll all be safe... I can't tell who's a good or bad guy anymore, unless they start shooting people, and I don't want that... it's the only way that makes sense, plus my purchase of a gun and ammo is good for gun business which is good for America...
 
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50 million
Milktoast Bandit said:
I'm going to buy a gun and shoot everyone that has a gun. That way, we'll all be safe... I can't tell who's a good or bad guy anymore, unless they start shooting people, and I don't want that...
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50 million + rounds. I think almost every relevant government agency will notice.
 
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