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Discussion in 'Enneagram' started by Liesl, Aug 1, 2011.
What are the differences between 8w9s and 9w8s? How does one tell them apart?
I was reading about this the other night and saw a funny quote from some guy-- "9w8 is like a super chill bad-ass, and a 8w9 is like a bad-ass who happens to be chill."
Being a 9w8 myself I feel there are definitely some major differences. Firstly, make no mistake, being an 8 and being a 9 are completely different. While they share a mutual wing possibility they aren't remotely similar at their core. 8's struggle with ambivalence to the nurturing figure in their life while 9's struggle with the negative affects of identifying with both their nurturing and protective figures. Obviously there are greater specifications and distinctions to make between the two. To "tell them apart" as you asked I would point out that 9's are a withdrawn type and 8's are an assertive, or aggressive, type. So their main style is really quite different. An 8w9 will be a "Bear" or something of a family man, protector. They 8w7 is the Saddam Hussein type (of course he has gone bad, not all do) while the 8w9 is more like Indira Ghandi. A 9w8 is someone like Dr. Drew Pinski (at their best) emotionally and psychologically available to others. Of course the key feature of the nine, their identification with both parents, means that they have to work at asserting themselves because their tendency is to be so available to others that they fail to live their own lives psychologically speaking. I recommend the compendium by Riso and Hudson entitled "Personality Types". It's available on kindle for about $8
Couple of descriptions I found
Thanks, those posts were helpful. I have a few remaining questions. My impression is that both 8w9s and 9w8s oscillate between states of "peacefulness" and "combativeness." And the trigger causing 8s to become combative is a threat to control while the trigger for 9s is being imposed on. Would you agree with that? I suspect I am 8w9 because though I prefer "peaceful" environments, I am unwilling to be subordinated to an authority that doesn't represent my interests fairly. But I don't think I fit into the stereotype of the ever-combative 8. My MO is to quietly strategize about how to maintain control. I avoid making moves that would expose me to face-to-face conflict on a daily basis; it's too draining. I need to be "peaceful" or "chill" or whatever you want to call it. But if this is how 8w9s function, how do 9w8s function? What do they become combative over?
You are a 9w8 according to this statement.
I disagree. You're probably misinterpreting what I said. What I meant is that I seek environments where I can assert my interests without facing a level of opposition that I find inefficient. What I did not mean is that in order to satiate my preference for "peace," I will blend my interests with those most represented in my environment. No way, no how.
OP you don't sound like an 8. I'm not experienced with Enneagram, but maybe you're a 1, 4 or 9.
Also, an INFJ type 9 and a hypthetical ENTJ type 9 would be very different in very key ways, and very similar still in others. Knowing who you are is something you find by careful, concerted work and self-observation. Don't give up, and don't expect anyone here to tell you what you are because you'll know it when you know it.
I haven't. You're not an 8.
Have you considered 6 on the way to integrating to 9?
I haven't, but I don't look for security from "the group" or rebel against "the group" because it's untrustworthy. I mean, nine would be a better fit than six. But I don't think I'm a nine.
"The group could also refer to perceived authority. This falls in line with counterphobic 6. is why I asked.
That's also the part that I noticed. 8s wouldn't want to be "represented fairly". I can only speak for myself and that means I either want the position myself or have at least great influence upon the leader.
Counterphobic 6 (especially sexual subtype) has a great deal in common with 8w9. CP6 wants to be stronger than any threats it perceives. It has an inherent fear of being vulnerable that causes it to take action to not be weak. Additionally, CP6 becomes more and more like 9, the healthier it becomes. But, CP6 becomes more like 3 (demanding, pushy, focused, willful, driven), as it becomes less healthy and stressed. This can seem a lot like 8, but the core motivations are quite different. The motivations of CP6 and 8w9, on the surface and in practice, are very similar. The main difference is that CP6 does these things as a reaction, while 8s do these things as actions. CP6 reacts to its surroundings, looking for the most advantageous path. "What is the best choice? Which way is the most advantageous? Which will make me happiest?" ...and as a Counterphobic 6 "What must I do (overcome) to achieve this?" 8s simply take charge and attempt to force it until it submits, then get angry when it doesn't. CP6s step up to taking authority when they feel they have to - usually because no one else is doing it right. 8s are already there whether or not those in authority were doing it right. CP6s tend to avoid obligation. 8s obligate themselves reflexively. CP6s take charge. 8s are already in charge. When an 8 doubts they are an 8, it is when they read the description and think "I can't really be that much of a pushy bastard..." This is because 8s become more like 2s when they become healthy, and therefore focus more as much on 2 as part of their self image as 9 is part of the self image of 6. 8s often see themselves as benevolent protectors, and not the lustful domineering self-focused unyielding tyrannical angry bitches we actually are. And when we stop and think about it, the truth sucks... but we'd rather have the truth. If you don't tend to look at everything and everyone as a resource to command for your own power base or gratification, then you're not an 8. "Do you benefit me in some way? Can I fuck it, eat it, drink it, or use it to make money? Is this an opportunity to assert myself to show everyone who is in charge? No? Next."
HAHAHA! I Love it! Good work with the whole paragraph there VH. ...reminds me of this Chef I used to work for... There are a lot of 8's in the upper echelons of culinary. The modern kitchen is pretty medieval; there's fire, knives, and egomaniacal heads-of-state.
Hmm, I could be a cp six.
If it's any consolation, [MENTION=4487]Liesl[/MENTION] I see you more as a CP6. They are very close to 8s, but as VH said above the motivations are different. Your motivations are different enough that I'd see you more as a CP6 (probably w5).
You know what, I think you're likely right. All of you were rather insightful; thank you for that. Why do you say I probably have a five wing, [MENTION=442]arbygil[/MENTION]?
Mostly, the 6w5s tend to be more introverted and more interested in "deep thoughts" and mechanical things (the whys and wherefores, and so forth). 6w7s tend to be more extroverted, and they're less concerned with why and they tend to have more impulsive behaviors. The 7-wing is more extroverted for the most part than the 5-wing. The core E6 will balance them. E6 tends to balance the introspection and the w7 tends to make the E6 more extroverted. In people terms, a 6w7 is more like Sally Field and 6w5 is more like Michelle Pfeiffer. The ultimate Cp6w7 was Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman (when she was Catwoman). Woody Allen is a phobic six (probably 6w7) and Spike Lee is a counterphobic six (probably 6w5). Marilyn Monroe was a phobic 6, not sure what her wing may have been, though. She was a lot more intelligent in real life than her movies portray. Mel Gibson is a counterphobic 6w5 as well. On the downside, but...yep. When a Cp6w5 has a meltdown it is nuclear and it can take out everyone near them. Cp6w7 meltdowns usually takes out themselves.