Your position on "our troops" | INFJ Forum

Your position on "our troops"

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Lerxst, Feb 6, 2013.

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Opinion on supporting the troops

Poll closed Mar 8, 2013.
  1. They should be respected and held in near God-like awe for their service across the globe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. They should be brought home and respected for dedicating themselves to protecting our borders

    6 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. They should be treated the same as anyone else

    6 vote(s)
    37.5%
  4. They should expect less respect than the veterans of "valid" wars and involuntary drafts such as WWI

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  5. They're just a bunch of societal leeches looking for a free ride after 4 years of blowing stuff up a

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Wait. You mean the US has a military?!

    3 vote(s)
    18.8%
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  1. Lerxst

    Lerxst Well-known member

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    For those of us in the US (or people who know US politics well), what's your position on these banners, sayings and overall mentality of wishing our troops well and protecting/hoping they stay safe? You may be familiar with the ribbons, of the commercials, PSA's and other announcements, especially around the Holidays.


    This is likely to get heated so, at least try to keep it sane.... (hopefully I did the venting for everyone in the poll section :D)
     
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  2. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
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    The reasons for wars are lies... No matter how noble or honorable the thinking behind why a person who enlists....it's essentially a job.

    I am opposed to celebrating war which includes the soldiers. I see tons and tons of pics recently regarding soldiers and their dog or their children. I never see anything about the physical and mental cost to the soldier and his loved ones after they've come home.

    Being in the miltary is a job with high risks and low pay if you're working for the US. If you're a mercenary like one of my long time friends ....it's high pay with high mental cost to he and his loved ones. Not only does he bear the guilt of death...he's now realizing the lie of it all.

    Still....killing and risking lives is his job...and we all know it.
     
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    #2 Kgal, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
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  3. OP
    Lerxst

    Lerxst Well-known member

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    I hover between 4 and 5. The more people around me insist on supporting and respecting the troops, the more I lean towards the "leeches" option. The less people bring it up, the more I stick to the 4th option of just not giving them the same level of respect a WWII veteran deserves or the sympathy a Vietnam draftee deserves.

    Part of this is that I spent a little time working with the near-drop-outs in high school who viewed military service as a great option - it was their plan A and B all in one regardless of how well they did in school. Instead of people pushing them to do well, study and learn, people would just pat them on the head and suddenly be proud of them once they enlisted.

    These aren't people who actually deserve respect; they're failures who took the path of least resistance and were never mentally challenged enough to promote any intellectual growth.

    Part of that blame needs to be placed on the system though. Instead of promoting an education and using our over inflated military budget on much needed things like healthcare and education reform, our country gives them benefits, pensions and paychecks for being counterproductive to our advancement as a society.

    I've mentioned it before - which requires more dedication and commitment - 8 years of medical school followed by 10 years of student loan payments, or 4 years of military service followed by a lifetime of government assistance?

    That alone is why supporting the troops is pretty much dead last on my list of things to support.
     
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  4. TheDoctor

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    Just because you support me in what I do does not mean you have to support the military or the system. I do not like glamorous displays of support, as these are not really support but somebody saying, "hey look at me and how I support the troops, I am awesome". I do appreciate support on an individual basis. And Kgal is right, it is a job.
     
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  5. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    Yes, I support our troops, I know many people who serve in the military, and I agree it is absolutely "just a job" and a job that involves killing, too. But it is a very, very, very hard job. I would not be inclined to over-idealize the job, or the people who choose to do it. In some cases the people who choose the job are highly flawed and not worthy of respect.

    However.

    On the whole, the military people I know are very mission-focused, pragmatic, hardworking and loyal, and they put great pride in doing their job well and right, since lives are on the line. For those highly personal and non-political reasons I absolutely do support them, and have recommended them for civilian jobs when I could, and support organizations that help them. So yes, I do support our troops. I also think if the US military wasn't as powerful as it is, some other powerful military would certainly fill that vacuum, and it would not necessarily be one that was better or less flawed.
     
  6. Jill Hives

    Jill Hives fhtagn
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    I sort of wish it were possible to thumbs down an entire poll right about now. -_-
     
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  7. ThomasJ79

    ThomasJ79 Pondering

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    I generally dislike overly enthusiastic displays of emotion, which include highly emotional displays of patriotism. I do consider myself patriotic though, even if I don't yet hang a flag from my front porch or place support the troops magnets on the back of car, as if anyone who doesn't do these things is anything but patriotic. I prefer not to advertise my personal beliefs in public. It's easier on a forum because of anonymity. I think it is an important part of citizenship to be critical of policies because as I'm sure others are equally aware, many of the policies the government embarks on aren't always the most logical. There are ideologies, some irrational in my opinion, underlying many of our country's policies. With that said, I do not find it contradictory to both support the troops for faithfully following their duties and being critical of policies that put them in harms way. After all it is the military's duty to follow and it is up to the republic to lead.
     
  8. the

    the Si master race.
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    It doesn't make sense to support the troops if you are against what they are doing. I expect people to act accordingly. Why would you send candy and pocket Bibles to Westboro baptist just to support the members?

    Putting yellow ribbon stickers on your car and mailing little bibles does about zero to support anyone who's deployed right now. There's often boxes and boxes of junk that well meaning people send to soldiers that just gets thrown away, send something you would want. Example: why would you send 100 keychains? Nobody wants that!

    if you are against the war than do something about it. Go protest returning soldiers, protest the White House, buy your own drones. There's already enough people creating "awareness" on Facebook. Or just sit at home and bitch about it, do what you know.
     
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    #8 the, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  9. the

    the Si master race.
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    Perhaps he wasn't mentally stimulated enough in school to make a quality poll.
     
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  10. Rcs6r

    Rcs6r Must be the feeling~
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    If I were a deployed troop... I'd probably want a flight home. :(

    But this is America, even 9/11 was profitable to some.
     
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  11. the

    the Si master race.
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    im sure American Airlines didnt refund those tickets.
     
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  12. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    Pretty much how I see it too.
    The glamorous displays of support I find overly sappy.
    "Thank you for protecting our freedoms!" Whatever.
    How was Iraq and Afghanistan a direct threat to our freedoms?

    Given quiet respect? Yes.
    But I would feel very uncomfortable if I were serving and had people fawning all over me.
     
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  13. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    They probably would have found a way to charge a fee to the families if they could have gotten away with it.
     
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  14. OP
    Lerxst

    Lerxst Well-known member

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    A common theme I'm seeing is that the servicemen/women are hard working, pragmatic individuals who are just doing their jobs. I don't frown upon people who do that. What I can't justify is why there's a separate level of respect they should be given vs the janitor at a school or a grocery store clerk who may be equally hard working.

    There was a decision these people made at some point in their life that drew them towards military service and like anyone applying for a job, they should have known what that service implied. How do they justify their decision which puts them in a position to cause/promote/support causing harm to people, when there were any number of other options they could have chosen from in regards to a career prior to enlisting?

    How do people justify their support of them, knowing these same people could have chosen to work a benign job in a different field which never would have put them or others in harms way as a result? And some of the neutral responses I'm seeing here (and I also witness in real life) remind me of the Edmund Burke quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." by not "protesting" or voicing an opposition to the "support the troops" campaigns.
     
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  15. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    Partly because they believe that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (this depends on your interpretation of evil, and your political viewpoint, of course, and I'm quite aware of yours, I'm merely pointing out that there are different interpretations and a good deal of gray area.)

    Also, probably partially because you don't get to fly bombers or shoot guns if you're bagging groceries. I would imagine many recruits find the vision of military life exciting and appealing, and I would also imagine they want to help fight the good fight -- which of course also has a lot of gray area, and may not always be accurate, but you asked, those are my answers as to "why".

    (In other words, not everyone agrees. Surprise!)
     
    #15 this is only temporary, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  16. ThomasJ79

    ThomasJ79 Pondering

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    I agree. One doesn't necessarily have to put their life on the line to be appreciated. I think looking at the service economy as a whole, one can find numerous examples of those who work behind the scenes and don't get the attention, which prevents their heads from getting too big! Like you mentioned, think of the janitor; go to just about any job and many people would cringe about having to take out the garbage or dust or put in a little elbow grease. Also, the city workers who have to get out bed in the middle of the night to plow the roads so people can drive safely. How about the police officer, or the fireman, who have to be available 24/7, or the healthcare workers who have to be there at 2 in the morning for anyone that needs help. Think about that for a moment. What good is defending a society where people aren't willing to take the jobs no one else will take to keep things running? Even the people that keep this site flowing smoothy need to be recognized :) We are all interconnected in ways we often don't contemplate.
     
  17. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    ^^ All right, so I agree with that. It would be nice if as a society as a whole, we appreciated people like teachers and caregivers more, rather than tending to idealize warriors and sports heroes. I don't see quite the same degree of risk involved, but still it is a good point you make there, we are all interconnected.
     
  18. tfg345i4u5lw

    On Holiday

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    I'm not going to look down on troops until I stop paying my criminally high income tax and do my part to solve the problem. Because I am a troop. I am the guy behind the scenes doing all the work and getting none of the recognition.
     
  19. tfg345i4u5lw

    On Holiday

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    I've been seriously thinking about not paying my taxes this year and just taking whatever punishments they give me. [MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION] are you down to do that with me? I'm 100% serious too.

    Seriously, let's start a group on the forum. We are "idealists" right????
     
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  20. the

    the Si master race.
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    I agree with what I think you are saying here. If you dont support what the government is doing then why do you keep paying them? Supposedly that is what America is all about, right? At the end of the day you are funding the wars, the President, and every other shitty thing going on locally and federally.
     
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