Would You Own A Self-Driving Car? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Would You Own A Self-Driving Car?

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Willenstarke, Feb 28, 2019.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 11 users.
More threads by Willenstarke
  1. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    524
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2,467
    Trophy Points:
    1,002
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    The reason I take the train when I need to commute.
    Side note: also the best place to concentrate on a coding issue. Nothing like having to retreat into oneself while surrounded by strangers to help with the focus. Some of the most incredible code I've written has been on that train. :D
     
    Willenstarke, Asa, flower and 2 others like this.
  2. JamieUK92

    JamieUK92 Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    1,052
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    7,963
    Trophy Points:
    1,082
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    2 6 9, 2w3
    Only if I had written the code. I don’t trust other programmers with my life.
     
    Willenstarke, acd, Asa and 3 others like this.
  3. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    524
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2,467
    Trophy Points:
    1,002
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    So much packed into such a short statement. All true.

    1 - Trust. The theme of this whole thread really.
    2 - Understanding of the technology
    3 - Human nature is to fumble. We can't have any fumbles when we're rocketing down the highway at 70mph.
    4 - Hacking (implied)
     
  4. JamieUK92

    JamieUK92 Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    1,052
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    7,963
    Trophy Points:
    1,082
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    2 6 9, 2w3
    Humans are stupid.

    Computers do exactly what humans tell them to do.

    Humans are stupid.

    I’d want to write my own and be responsible for my own catastrophic death and I’d make sure only 1 model was produced lol
     
    Willenstarke and flower like this.
  5. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    524
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2,467
    Trophy Points:
    1,002
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    We are stupid. It's quite amazing at how well we've built up our knowledge base on the work of others. Most kids in school these days don't even understand how trig works or see the patterns. They just punch the numbers into a calculator.

    With self driving cars will come the kit version of the same. Let the companies figure out the detection and relay devices (they're still kind of rough) and then we will be able to work the system with those inputs. This means more trouble on the road though, and it will be interesting to see how the government regulates this, I think we still have a decade to go before we see this.

    Re: computers doing exactly what you tell them to do... this is why we need just a touch of AI involved. The cars need to learn and know that not everything is on or off for decisions. And an indecisive car on the road can be worse than one willing to run off the road.
     
    Willenstarke, flower and JamieUK92 like this.
  6. JamieUK92

    JamieUK92 Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    1,052
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    7,963
    Trophy Points:
    1,082
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    2 6 9, 2w3
    It would have to have some degree of AI for sure. I don’t see how it would work without it. Even though everything with a semi complicated decision algorithm based off of priori knowledge is considered AI these days .

    I’d personally only call something AI if it senses it’s own environment. In this case some form of computer vision and image processing would be the sensing of the road.

    Anyway I don’t mean the human user of the system, I mean the programmer. AI is still a set of instructions that a human tells the computer to perform based off of input. Whether that input is from sensory data like a stream of images or whether it’s from human input is irrelevant.
     
    Willenstarke and flower like this.
  7. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Threads:
    70
    Messages:
    9,461
    Likes Received:
    6,686
    Trophy Points:
    1,011
    MBTI:
    xxxx
    I wonder how they handle animals darting into the road.
     
    MoonFlier, Willenstarke, acd and 2 others like this.
  8. JamieUK92

    JamieUK92 Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    1,052
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    7,963
    Trophy Points:
    1,082
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    2 6 9, 2w3
    Well current computer vision and object recognition would be able to detect it but the problem is humans are much better at it. Saying that though, if it utilised some kind of camera technology that allowed it a full 360 degree view, then it could actually be more reactive than humans. We are probably quite a way off with this.

    Another thing that may actually make it more safe if the tech was advanced enough. Is that human reactions vary and we are very easily distracted. A computers processing of the event and then reaction time would always be consistent. Computers don’t get distracted.

    Still maybe in 50+ years I might trust the technology.
     
  9. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Threads:
    70
    Messages:
    9,461
    Likes Received:
    6,686
    Trophy Points:
    1,011
    MBTI:
    xxxx
    I'm more interested in cases where it's safer to hit the animal than avoid it. Do we teach an AI to make choices like that?
     
    MoonFlier, Willenstarke, acd and 2 others like this.
  10. JamieUK92

    JamieUK92 Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    1,052
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    7,963
    Trophy Points:
    1,082
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    2 6 9, 2w3
    Oh that’s a very interesting point. It’s certainly a tough problem. I guess it would simply have to be able to make these decisions, just like humans do. However, i think it ultimately boils down to how advanced the computer vision is.

    Humans process imagery in so much detail and develop an almost instant mental model of what is happening. Unfortunately, our conscious mind can sometimes be elsewhere and not taking notice to the models produced by the sub conscious. Leading to poor reactions or no reaction at all.

    Current computer vision algorithms are obviously no match for human vision (yet), in terms of how detailed the model of the current situation is. So, coming to a decision of what is “safer” would probably be less accurate, given the limited amount of data contained in the model. However, with computers the constant monitoring of this model is gaurenteed and so a reaction in a reasonable time is also gaurenteed. The same cannot be said of humans.
     
    MoonFlier and Willenstarke like this.
  11. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Threads:
    70
    Messages:
    9,461
    Likes Received:
    6,686
    Trophy Points:
    1,011
    MBTI:
    xxxx
    Yeah, I remember there being a slight controversy in teaching driving AI to deal with ethical problems. For example there was a question of what to do if the AI has a choice between killing one person or killing a crowd of people. It's unlikely to ever happen because there are plenty of ways to avoid ever getting into that situation, but it's an interesting what-if.

    Edit:
    Also maybe an AI can act in ways that humans don't. Most fatalities involving accidents with deer are because of trying to miss the deer instead of hitting it. Also if you slam on the brakes while you hit the deer, it causes the front of the vehicle to dip which increases the chance of the deer being thrown up into the windshield, but if you release the brakes before impact the front will come up and absorb the impact more.
     
    #31 sprinkles, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    MoonFlier, Willenstarke and acd like this.
  12. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    133
    Messages:
    12,569
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    15,509
    Trophy Points:
    1,227
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    I've actually thought about this and I'm not comfortable with automated driving because I don't like the idea of not being in control.

    There are so many split second decisions to make when driving as well as ethical decisions as @sprinkles pointed out that I worry that the self driving vehicle might be limited in options. But maybe that's bs and it can be programmed with zillions of possible responses and process those faster than a human mind could.

    I am sure things like this are taken into consideration by the engineers and programmers but ultimately I just don't want to relinquish my responsibility and autonomy to a machine.

    I also think that ironically such advanced tech will people dumber and less self-reliant. We will devolve further into a culture that can't think for itself and relies too heavily on machines programmed by a certain section of the population. Maybe that would make individuals more vulnerable to exploitation. Look at how bots on social media have been able to influence public opinion in recent years.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #32 acd, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  13. GRiMM

    GRiMM Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2019
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    473
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Trophy Points:
    1,012
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    iSTP
    Enneagram:
    SiCK
    o hell no
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    flower, Willenstarke and Hostarius like this.
  14. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42
    Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    489
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Trophy Points:
    997
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Waffleland
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    549
    [​IMG]
     
    Willenstarke and JamieUK92 like this.
  15. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42
    Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    489
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Trophy Points:
    997
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Waffleland
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    549
    In all seriousness, self-driving cars will be there sooner than later, it's going to be a long transitional period at first and starting particularly within cities.

    By the way, another interesting case for self-driving vehicles is when you get into a situation where there are emergency vehicles passing by, traffic changes because you
    let them pass through, but I'm not sure how the AI of a tesla handles it now.

     
    Willenstarke and JamieUK92 like this.
Loading...

Share This Page