World peace

[Ren]

"In the anarchic world of international politics, it is better to be Godzilla than Bambi." John Mearsheimer, author of the Tragedy of Great Power Politics (2001)

It’s true that the international system is, by and large, anarchic. There are no supranational institutions to regulate the behaviour of States; the UN is weak and can only do so much against the big players who disregard its recommendations. The Godzillas rule and the Bambis follow, and the Godzillas often aren't nice.

Still as citizens we all aim at world peace. How do we achieve it, or at least get closer to the ideal? Given the way the current system works, how can we progress towards a more peaceful world? Do you believe in unipolarity, bipolarity, multipolarity? What is your stance on nuclear deterrence? Would you be ready to accept giving up some of your sovereignty to allow the UN the power to police the behaviour of States?

Looking forward to your insights

 

[Pin]

"In the anarchic world of international politics, it is better to be Godzilla than Bambi." John Mearsheimer, author of the Tragedy of Great Power Politics (2001)

I strongly agree with Mr. Mearsheimer.

It’s true that the international system is, by and large, anarchic. There are no supranational institutions to regulate the behaviour of States; the UN is weak and can only do so much against the big players who disregard its recommendations. The Godzillas rule and the Bambis follow, and the Godzillas often aren't nice.

Good can't always be nice. Sometimes it is necessary to be feared like a father (military intervention, spying, no-compromise diplomacy). Conversely, there are times where a softer approach is more than necessary.

Still as citizens we all aim at world peace. How do we achieve it, or at least get closer to the ideal?

World peace starts at the micro-level and moves to the macro-level. Individuals must be educated, well-fed, sheltered, and have a consistently rising quality of life. When these prerequisites are met, these individuals can be mobilized into occupations that produce sustainable long-term development for everyone.

Given the way the current system works, how can we progress towards a more peaceful world?

Wealth Equality and Social Mobility.

Spoiler: Graph.

People need consistent opportunities to become great, rise above their station, and Make America Great Again. There's not a lot of time to be violent when you're improving yourself and the world.

Do you believe in unipolarity, bipolarity, multipolarity?

Unipolarity: if there were one great power, issues on a global scale could be swatted like flies.

What is your stance on nuclear deterrence?

Only the most developed countries should have access to nuclear weapons.

Would you be ready to accept giving up some of your sovereignty to allow the UN the power to police the behaviour of States?

Yes, if only to free the national priorities of the United States.

 

[invisible]

I don't support the idea of parental type states. That is way too close to the concept of child races for my comfort. I've done a lot of volunteer work for Indigenous people and they really educated me about the details of how that fucked them up.

People have a great intense need to be right... they will not relinquish their need to be right... I don't think there will be world peace until everyone can agree "live and let live". I don't think that there is any fundamentally better way for people to live, apart from everyone letting every other people have freedom to live their own version of a better way. I don't see it happening.

Such vast inequalities of wealth. People are so greedy.

Are we making any progress? Too early to tell. I hope so but you can't tell yet what's going to happen. A lot of people are working very hard to turn it all around but I don't know whether that will be enough. I simply don't know. I have faith in us... the best of us will do their best for the rest of us.

 

[Reason]

World Peace

I think it's rather overrated

 

[Ren]

World peace might be overrated, but I've always been struck by how it's far, far easier to speak about war and violence than about peace, as if "peace" was either some sort of abstract ideal or just taken for granted by those who consider that they live in by and large peaceful societies (and I certainly include myself in that lot.)

Usually people have a negative understanding of what peace means, as the absence of war or violence. As a result it's not seen as something that is positively practiced, but only as a passive state of affairs that somehow results from the absence of what it is not (conflict). But I think one of the keys to reaching world peace might be to move towards taking peace as an activity of the every day, coming with its own set of principles and norms. I think norms, not States, have the potential to make the difference, because norms can cross boundaries and transcend cultures. Of course, this is a very long-term process, but it can and should begin right now.

 

[Wyote]

I think norms, not States, have the potential to make the difference

What sort of norms do you think are practical to implement in ones own life?

 

[Eventhorizon]

I could write a book on this but these days find I have little patience for the inevitable "I havent lived long but I disagree with you!" Counter argument almost always associated with emotion with no actual thought behind the statements. So i try to keep statements wrapped into neat little balls of the most relevant things to consider.

There was an X-Files episode where Mulder wished for world peace from a genie. After doing so he entered the world to find it empty of all people.

World peace can never be achieved if for no other reason than people will never be able to agree on what it entails.

My advice to you is to view humanity as an outsider and look at it as if you are looking at another species. Everything will begin to make sense to you after that.

 

[Icedream]

I haven't lived long, but I disagree with you.

1: you're getting your opinion from hollywood, lol.
2: world peace is definitely possible, but yeah people have to die to get to it. There's no harmony in a trailmix

PS:

My advice to you is to view humanity as an outsider and look at it as if you are looking at another species. Everything will begin to make sense to you after that.

the hell are you talking about

 

[Eventhorizon]

I haven't lived long, but I disagree with you.

1: you're getting your opinion from hollywood, lol.
2: world peace is definitely possible, but yeah people have to die to get to it. There's no harmony in a trailmix

PS:

the hell are you talking about

Hey icedream. I opened this one comment from you to let you know Ive placed you on block. Ill not be able to see anything you say from now on so have at. Say whatever you like with no correction of fact or truth. The world is yours. Enjoy!

 

[Icedream]

Hey icedream. I opened this one comment from you to let you know Ive placed you on block. Ill not be able to see anything you say from now on so have at. Say whatever you like with no correction of fact or truth. The world is yours. Enjoy!

 

[Stu]

this

 

[Icedream]

@Eventhorizon

 

[infinite dreams]

World peace can never be achieved if for no other reason than people will never be able to agree on what it entails.

No, it can never be achieved because it runs directly counter to the competitive clamor and drive for power that fuels much of the base nature of humanity. While the average person probably views world peace as an admirable goal, there are plenty of others (largely, those with influence, charisma and power) who view the cooperation needed for lasting peace as a fool's game.

 

[Eventhorizon]

No, it can never be achieved because it runs directly counter to the competitive clamor and drive for power that fuels much of the base nature of humanity. While the average person probably views world peace as an admirable goal, there are plenty of others (largely, those with influence, charisma and power) who view the cooperation needed for lasting peace as a fool's game.

I dont disagree with much of this. Though you seem to be grouping people who have drive and aspirations into one where they are the sole proprietors of conflict that will never allow world peace to be achieved. I dont agree with this. Every human has within them war. For some it doesnt take much to provoke it, for others it takes more. Honestly its a good thing though because without it the human race would have died off long ago.
Dont fool yourself into thinking that those in power keep us from world peace. Humanity keeps us from peace.

And... my original statement is fully accurate. I dont feel like listing EVERYTHING that keeps us from world peace though. There are many other things as well.

 

[Ren]

I dont disagree with much of this. Though you seem to be grouping people who have drive and aspirations into one where they are the sole proprietors of conflict that will never allow world peace to be achieved. I dont agree with this. Every human has within them war. For some it doesnt take much to provoke it, for others it takes more. Honestly its a good thing though because without it the human race would have died off long ago.
Dont fool yourself into thinking that those in power keep us from world peace. Humanity keeps us from peace.

And... my original statement is fully accurate. I dont feel like listing EVERYTHING that keeps us from world peace though. There are many other things as well.

I think your argument might be misled by a false premise. I know I titled this thread "World Peace" because it was catchy, but if you properly read my OP you will notice that what I wanted to discuss was not whether absolute world peace is possible, but rather how we can progress towards a more peaceful world. Obviously peace in human terms is a spectrum, not a perfect absolute. So if you argue from the premise that humans are fallible to the conclusion that perfect peace is impossible, yes you will have reached a valid conclusion, but it's a trivial conclusion and the premise is false in relation to what the OP laid out.

So let's move to this other question, not this "either/or" but this how. How do we achieve more peace in the world? Surely this is possible. The OP covered the statist/Realist and the institutionalist (e.g. the United Nations) approaches, but there is also the constructivist perspective which is about norms, civil society and pushing change in mentalities (I have not forgotten your question @Wyote and I will address it when I have a bit more time and inspiration!) I think @Pin above made quite an interesting and well-articulated case for the statist/Realist perspective. But there are more and I'd love to hear what people think on the topic.

 

[Icedream]

Careful, Ren. He might block you

 

[Eventhorizon]

Achieving more peace in that regard is simple. If you allow people the access to the basics in life like nourishment, clean water, secure housing, and some amount of healthcare that covers the basics and then top it all with something that takes their free time away, most wont have the desire to fight for anything else. They may WANT more but then the question is, are you really willing to die for it when you already have everything you need to survive. Hell in Russia they made vodka cheap to subdue the masses and its worked. Here in America liberal pawn makers fight to make drugs legal to the masses. A subdued population is one easy to control. One less to cause an uprising. Mean while the elite float on the backs of those killed by their own hand. All they have to do is give them easy access to the tools of their own choosing.

 

[Ren]

I've been meaning to return to some of the posts here, sorry about taking so long. In the meantime... Some wise words from Spinoza.

 

[Icedream]

Wonderful.

 

[pzl2lxie81mc]

How do we achieve it, or at least get closer to the ideal? Given the way the current system works, how can we progress towards a more peaceful world? Do you believe in unipolarity, bipolarity, multipolarity? What is your stance on nuclear deterrence? Would you be ready to accept giving up some of your sovereignty to allow the UN the power to police the behaviour of States?

How to achieve peace - wouldn’t you say this is different for everyone? I think it requires everyone to to reflect on whether they want and can be peaceful. And, there will be some who don’t and are not (and will probably say that peace is unobtainable).

How to have more peace today - the West needs to contextualize the rise of the East.

Uni/bi/multipolarity - I don’t believe in any. I take the existence of as a result of things and not because of things.

Nuclear deterrence - obviously we need to limit it as much as possible. But, human (stress here in this case on -man) nature, is dumb and that is why we have cars that go over 150mph and why more and more countries will have nuclear bombs.

Give up sovereignty to the UN - no. The UN is not set up to take over sovereignty from other countries.