what's your definition of FREEDOM??? | INFJ Forum

what's your definition of FREEDOM???

Constant_Overstimulation

Constant_Overstimulation

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Apr 15, 2011
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long story short...i'm in the middle of writing a story...and 2 of the characters go into a detailed discussion on what they think it truly means to be free...

it could be spiritual freedom, religious freedom, personal freedom, expressive freedom, whatever.


so the question is, to you, WHAT IS FREEDOM???
 
Freedom is the right to act with the same level of rights as everyone else.

It is not right for some to be more equal than others by either overstepping those rights or by damaging the rights of others.

The balance of rights and the rule of law is the balance of the freedom of everyone to act within the same rights whilst stopping individuals from damaging the freedoms of others.

In short, many people say Freedom is the right to do whatever they wish. They are quite misguided. Freedom is the right to demand equality of consideration and action as others by default.

Anything less or more is neither free nor just.
 
Freedom= choices aplenty! And being under no external pressure to select any one. That's freedom for me.
 
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the question is so pertinent in America, for example, today. If you were to ask a neocon, FREEDOM is for the rich, the CEOs, to exploit anyone and everyone they can for even more profit than they were already making back when their behavior was more closely guarded to make sure they did more good than harm. In exchange for that freedom, everyone else has to lose theirs. As of recent supreme court and republican state majority decisions, workers don't have the freedom to fight back against economic injustice. Unions have to be destroyed, you now can't sue corps in class action suits of said corps don't want you to, etc etc etc.

My definition of freedom isn't freedom to do what-the-heck-ever-you-want (like, you know, shoot people if you want to, drive any speed you want, etc etc) but is, instead, freedom from adversity (which is impossible, but we CAN do our best.) Freedom for the every day worker not to have to have to worry about life-destroying debt if they ever get sick. Freedom from having to pay off the local law enforcement/fire prevention in order to get any service (yes, there are right wing forces pushing to privatize these basic services.) Freedom from being treated like disposable cogs.

Being secure is a freedom. Being insecure is a constant onslaught of stress, angst, anger, fear, etc. But it does help CEOs keep workers from standing up for themselves.

God, I seem to be single minded lately. Sorry. But yes, the word is used in err in this country and things'll only get worse until most people understand that.
 
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Freedom is the ability to do whatever the heck you want. By this definition, nobody is free.
 
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is it possible to be truly free living in circumstances that you find arent to your fullest potential??

for example, lets say someone says "fuck it, i wanna move across the country, and just "live off the land". so you pack everything, and go. FREEDOM you say to yourself.

...but then, you get there, and you still have to get a job, that you hate, and live with roomates, who you cant stand, and wind up living a life you dont really want to live.
 
~jet said:
My definition of freedom isn't freedom to do what-the-heck-ever-you-want (like, you know, shoot people if you want to, drive any speed you want, etc etc) but is, instead, freedom from adversity (which is impossible, but we CAN do our best.) Freedom for the every day worker not to have to have to worry about life-destroying debt if they ever get sick. Freedom from having to pay off the local law enforcement/fire prevention in order to get any service (yes, there are right wing forces pushing to privatize these basic services.) Freedom from being treated like disposable cogs.
Click to expand...

[MENTION=3019]~jet[/MENTION]

ah, i agree. i even have the "drive any speed you want" argument during the debate of the 2 characters, good call with that!

you bring money into the equation...or better yet, debt...


how bout this...lets say, i want to travel the globe. i have JUST enough money in my bank account to do that, but it will completely drain all cash i have. i say fuck it, and spend all my cash, travel the entire globe, and have the best time of my life doing it.

then i come back, dirt broke, and wind up dying.


would you say i died free, or did i still die a slave to debt/society??
 
Constant_Overstimulation said:
would you say i died free, or did i still die a slave to debt/society??
Click to expand...

Would curtailing the freedom of the rest of society be sensible to support the excesses of your freedom?

I believe this is where the mechanism of debt becomes a useful accountant of the value of freedom.
 
Constant_Overstimulation said:
[MENTION=3019]~jet[/MENTION]

ah, i agree. i even have the "drive any speed you want" argument during the debate of the 2 characters, good call with that!

you bring money into the equation...or better yet, debt...


how bout this...lets say, i want to travel the globe. i have JUST enough money in my bank account to do that, but it will completely drain all cash i have. i say fuck it, and spend all my cash, travel the entire globe, and have the best time of my life doing it.

then i come back, dirt broke, and wind up dying.


would you say i died free, or did i still die a slave to debt/society??
Click to expand...

I'd say this character got the better end of the deal. A shorter life, maybe, but one well lived. Problem I see is that millions upon billions of people around the world are cornered into lives full of insecurity, making them easily exploitable. Maybe not too useful to your story, but it's kind of an unavoidable thing in the world today and worth its own story. =3

I wish people would realize and enact their irrevocable freedom to band together and say 'screw the system, let's start a new one.' Maybe they'll get a bomb dropped on them in the name of 'quelling an uprising' but they'll die free.
 
The ability to be maximally comfortable.
 
InvisibleJim said:
Would curtailing the freedom of the rest of society be sensible to support the excesses of your freedom?

I believe this is where the mechanism of debt becomes a useful accountant of the value of freedom.
Click to expand...


[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION]

i totally agree that debt is definitely useful in measuring freedom...as can be seen from what i've posted thus far in this thread...


but to take it a bit further, a bit spiritually even....

is the human body an entrapment?

is it possible to be free, truly free, while in a human body? is it, in a sense, a prison?

is death the only way??
 
Constant_Overstimulation said:
[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION]

i totally agree that debt is definitely useful in measuring freedom...as can be seen from what i've posted thus far in this thread...


but to take it a bit further, a bit spiritually even....

is the human body an entrapment?

is it possible to be free, truly free, while in a human body? is it, in a sense, a prison?

is death the only way??
Click to expand...

The tragedy of sexual intercourse is the perpetual virginity of the soul.

Aka. Yes.
 
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Constant_Overstimulation said:
[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION]

i totally agree that debt is definitely useful in measuring freedom...as can be seen from what i've posted thus far in this thread...


but to take it a bit further, a bit spiritually even....

is the human body an entrapment?

is it possible to be free, truly free, while in a human body? is it, in a sense, a prison?

is death the only way??
Click to expand...

There, I'd argue no... a human body requires shelter from unusual elements (such as living away from the tropics), calories, the right range of nutrients, opportunity to sex it up, etc... those are limitations. Luckily most of them (sleep, eating, sex) are kinda enjoyable and people tend to pursue each with relish.
 
My practical definition would be the right to not be subjected to violence or the threat thereof, given that you yourself have not initiated, or threatened to initiate, violence against someone else, or something along those lines.

The "hedonist definition" of being able to do whatever you want, choose whatever you want from a maximal number of options etc. is highly impractical and would conflict with the first definition. I've also heard an "atomistic" one, in which freedom is maximized when the influence of external forces on your decisions is minimal. Obviously absolute freedom in such a scenario would be to not at all be influenced by what surrounds you, and this seems quite impossible if you want to interact with the world at all. Unless one believes in an afterlife death doesn't seem very free : P. Though, personally, I find the possibility of death to be quite liberating in a way.

But anyway, I think the way to feel "most free" would probably be to become self-sufficient. Even if interdependence is completely voluntary and can make your life a heck of a lot better, it still limits you in that you to some extent are dependent on someone else. But "freedom" would probably be a misnomer in this context, I'd rather go with independence.
 
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WOW! I do feel the human body is a cage, keeping our souls entrapped, but I believe there, for many is no freedom in death, either. There again, you have to define freedom for yourself. If you believe there is a Heaven, you choose to be an eternal servant, even in death, your will is not your own. In this I find true freedom. Freedom from myself. Freedom from my desires. Help supporting my pain, overcoming my weakness. Strength in His love. If true freedom means I have to sacrifice true love, I would rather die a slave. I will compromise certain freedoms to share in love. Gladly.

@jet really made me think when he mentioned security. How freeing it would be to be secure in myself! To escape jealousy. One of my life goals, and a main reason I avoid committed relationships. I refuse to put myself or another through that torture, until I work it through. I am very passive, so i mostly torture myself with it. I think I would feel truly free if I could conquer insecurity. Wow. Thank you for that insight @jet.
 
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Yes [MENTION=3444]manatee[/MENTION], I agree with independence being a main component of freedom. There again, that could be my pride of not wanting to "need" anyone, but rather to "choose" them. Not really certain...
 
Constant_Overstimulation said:
@InvisibleJim

i totally agree that debt is definitely useful in measuring freedom...as can be seen from what i've posted thus far in this thread...


but to take it a bit further, a bit spiritually even....

is the human body an entrapment?

is it possible to be free, truly free, while in a human body? is it, in a sense, a prison?

is death the only way??
Click to expand...

No I think my body is an integral part of who I am. Also just think how cold my soul would be without it.
 
Yes, Agreed. We need the body, if only for pleasure.
 
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