US attempts to increase federal minimum wage

[slant]

I wanted to start a discussion about this; typically I'm not particularly interested in politics but I have been following this story out of concern.

Originally, the democratic party wanted to package a $15 an hour federal minimum wage increase with the stimulus relief bill which was just passed in the house of representative.

A little background about how the $15 federal wage increase was supposed to work:

Tuesday. The Higher Wages for American Workers Act would gradually increase hourly pay from $7.25 to $10 over the course of five years. Then after every two years, pay would increase to match the rate of inflation. The legislation would also raise civil and criminal penalties for employers who hired unauthorized workers and require employees' eligibility to work to be confirmed with E-Verify.

source


Eventually this was removed from the bill, which is what passed.

I came very close to writing my senators to vote against the stimulus bill because of this federal wage increase. But then I made fun of myself because I live in a republican state so they were never going to vote in favor of it anyway.

This bill concerns me. Do you think it will be reintroduced? What do you think about it?

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I have a minimal understanding of how this stuff works. I agree that anyone working should get a wage that can be lived on, however there's a legitimate question of where this money is going to come from. If it's your average lower to middle class taxpayer and small businesses, I'm not sure I can support it. Increasing the minimum wage has to actually empower people who are in poverty by changing the power dynamic between the ultra rich and the working poor. If the lower echelons are left to pay for their own wage increases while the ultra rich continue to avoid taxes and exploit loopholes then that doesn't really fix anything.

Not really sure what to think about the penalties for having non-verified workers.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

A bit on the small side given the cost of living and too late for many given the last increase was more than a decade ago. Just comes to show they only bother when there is some political gain to be had otherwise the little guy is left to rot in blue collar hell. The cherry on top is knowing this will further drive unemployment higher as the mom and pops can't afford it while the monopolies get another excuse to "streamline" ie lay off more people.

 

[Wyote]

I'm not concerned. Whatever effects it might have would be mitigated and ultimately it's not helpful anyway. It would take a lot more to fix the gap in wealth even slightly. $15/hr is not really livable today, much less eight to ten years from now.

It's just a political talking point that changes nothing.

 

[SpecialEdition]

The fact that the minimum wage is so low in the USA is shocking to me and I am surprised that anyone is against people making a living wage, if you can even call 15 an hour a living wage.

I don't live in your country so I can't fairly comment beyond that. Our minimum wages are set by province and some are already at 15 based on cost of living but I think that's too low still. I would love to see it increased to closer to 20 an hour especially in expensive provinces like Ontario and Vancouver. I'd love to see the same for the USA.

 

[Ren]

The fact that the minimum wage is so low in the USA is shocking to me and I am surprised that anyone is against people making a living wage, if you can even call 15 an hour a living wage.

I don't live in your country so I can't fairly comment beyond that. Our minimum wages are set by province and some are already at 15 based on cost of living but I think that's too low still. I would love to see it increased to closer to 20 an hour especially in expensive provinces like Ontario and Vancouver. I'd love to see the same for the USA.

There was a referendum to introduce minimum wage in Switzerland a few years ago. The Swiss voted against it!

Maybe it's easier when the unofficial minimum wage is around 20€/hour.

 

[slant]

I'm not concerned. Whatever effects it might have would be mitigated and ultimately it's not helpful anyway. It would take a lot more to fix the gap in wealth even slightly. $15/hr is not really livable today, much less eight to ten years from now.

It's just a political talking point that changes nothing.

Right? I feel similarly but I think it wouldn't solve the problem AND have a negative impact. We have no protection against them just raising the price of everything in response and that's what happened in australia when they passed similar laws, except that australia has things like rent control and assistance where in this country it's state to state with some states having no such assistance whatsoever

 

[SpecialEdition]

Right? I feel similarly but I think it wouldn't solve the problem AND have a negative impact. We have no protection against them just raising the price of everything in response and that's what happened in australia when they passed similar laws, except that australia has things like rent control and assistance where in this country it's state to state with some states having no such assistance whatsoever

This is the only reason I can see why people would be concerned. People in the USA have almost no protection against anything. There are many systemic issues that need to be addressed on top of providing living wages. I honestly wouldn't know where to begin.

 

[Wyote]

Right? I feel similarly but I think it wouldn't solve the problem AND have a negative impact. We have no protection against them just raising the price of everything in response and that's what happened in australia when they passed similar laws, except that australia has things like rent control and assistance where in this country it's state to state with some states having no such assistance whatsoever

Inflation is a normal occurrence and has been happening forever.
It sounds like a dramatic increase, but it's not. We're all living in an illusion of monetary suppression.
If it were being increased to 15/hr tomorrow or next year, I might have small concerns.

 

[slant]

Inflation is a normal occurrence and has been happening forever.
It sounds like a dramatic increase, but it's not. We're all living in an illusion of monetary suppression.
If it were being increased to 15/hr tomorrow or next year, I might have small concerns.

Yeah but what I'm saying is the inflation increases in relation to the pay increase so if you're being paid more but all the prices raise to compensate you're making the same amount of money it is just a numerical difference. Look at the price of milk in australia before the wage increase and after and you will see the increase was proportionate to the pay increase aka it made very little difference if the companies increase the price of their products because of manufacturing cost increase and there are no regulations stopping companies from reacting in this way

 

[Wyote]

Yeah but what I'm saying is the inflation increases in relation to the pay increase so if you're being paid more but all the prices raise to compensate you're making the same amount of money it is just a numerical difference. Look at the price of milk in australia before the wage increase and after and you will see the increase was proportionate to the pay increase aka it made very little difference if the companies increase the price of their products because of manufacturing cost increase and there are no regulations stopping companies from reacting in this way

Guess we better try and fix that eh

 

[Wyote]

@slant this elaborates on some other factors a little bit, I think you'll appreciate it

 

[Winter Memories]

Right? I feel similarly but I think it wouldn't solve the problem AND have a negative impact. We have no protection against them just raising the price of everything in response and that's what happened in australia when they passed similar laws, except that australia has things like rent control and assistance where in this country it's state to state with some states having no such assistance whatsoever

This. I am for people having a better wage but you cannot fix the wage problem until you fix the uncapped greed problem. The only thing raising minimum wage to $15 will do is for one, hurt small businesses, and two, cause inflation. It will just cause the prices of everything to go up to the point it appears you didn't get a raise at all.

 

[Matty]

Maybe grant less visas for unskilled migrants. They're competing for the lowest paying jobs, against the poorest people in your society.

Wages go up when there's a shortage of labour.

 

[InfernoMink]

I like when people say, we can’t give workers a raise, that will increase prices. Meanwhile executives get million dollar bonuses and stock options and those don’t seem to ever increase the price of things the way people FEAR inflation will be affected by a $15/hr minimum wage. It’s all a fucking joke and one of the reasons I don’t fear leaving this shit human concept of a planet.

 

[slant]

I like when people say, we can’t give workers a raise, that will increase prices. Meanwhile executives get million dollar bonuses and stock options and those don’t seem to ever increase the price of things the way people FEAR inflation will be affected by a $15/hr minimum wage. It’s all a fucking joke and one of the reasons I don’t fear leaving this shit human concept of a planet.

Well yeah it's the people who give themselves million dollar bonuses that increase the price of everything when you force them to pay their workers more without regulating their ability to raise prices lol

 

[InfernoMink]

Well yeah it's the people who give themselves million dollar bonuses that increase the price of everything when you force them to pay their workers more without regulating their ability to raise prices lol

Another thing too. They talk a lot about “Regulations” but I’ve done some of the research in my industry and I have discovered yet again, more bullshit. For example, I thought it was super important to get tobacco licenses from places that want to business with us. The thought was that the industry is so regulated that without the tobacco license, the government would shut your distribution biz down. But the truth is that the tobacco license just serves one purpose, it prevents us from being ripped off by someone wanting a lower price who has not given a chunk of cash to the government and state in the form of “licensing fees”. but if you hear the execs talk about this tobacco license these bitches cry about it like if government is sending agents to make sure no one is abusing the licensing and everyone is being penalized or something.

 

[slant]

Another thing too. They talk a lot about “Regulations” but I’ve done some of the research in my industry and I have discovered yet again, more bullshit. For example, I thought it was super important to get tobacco licenses from places that want to business with us. The thought was that the industry is so regulated that without the tobacco license, the government would shut your distribution biz down. But the truth is that the tobacco license just serves one purpose, it prevents us from being ripped off by someone wanting a lower price who has not given a chunk of cash to the government and state in the form of “licensing fees”. but if you hear the execs talk about this tobacco license these bitches cry about it like if government is sending agents to make sure no one is abusing the licensing and everyone is being penalized or something.

I don't understand if you're trying to make an argument or venting. Yes, the execs don't want regulations, they don't want anything that will cut into their profits even if it's a small small small small percentage. The attitude in business is to always be increasing profit that's basically the point so they have a vested interest to do so, and those who are the labor force have a vested interest to protect their rights and demand more. The two are inherently in conflict. What they want is the same- more money and power. But the labor force has limited capacity to get either.

 

[InfernoMink]

I don't understand if you're trying to make an argument or venting. Yes, the execs don't want regulations, they don't want anything that will cut into their profits even if it's a small small small small percentage. The attitude in business is to always be increasing profit that's basically the point so they have a vested interest to do so, and those who are the labor force have a vested interest to protect their rights and demand more. The two are inherently in conflict. What they want is the same- more money and power. But the labor force has limited capacity to get either.

I’m venting cause at the end of the day it’s filthy rich people crying about not having enough of what they already have A LOT of.

 

[slant]

I’m venting cause at the end of the day it’s filthy rich people crying about not having enough of what they already have A LOT of.

Oh ok gotcha