UN rejects US-backed cluster bombs regulation bid

[Quiet]

This is old news but I only heard about this last week.

UN member states have rejected a US-backed plan to introduce new regulations on cluster bombs - munitions which break up into hundreds of smaller bomblets.
The plan would have eliminated all cluster munitions made before 1980. But human rights groups argued that an international convention banning such bombs already exists and that the new protocol would dilute its provisions.
The US said that it was "deeply disappointed" by the decision.

"The protocol would have led to the immediate prohibition of many millions of cluster munitions [and] placed the remaining cluster munitions under a detailed set of restrictions and regulations," the US embassy in Geneva said in a statement.

First developed during World War II, cluster bombs contain a number of smaller bomblets designed to cover a large area and deter an advancing army.

A total of 111 UN member states have already signed up to the Oslo convention prohibiting the production, transfer, and use of cluster munitions. The US, Russia and China have not.

A senior US official said the bombs were a military necessity for when targets were spread over wide areas, and that using alternative armaments would cause more collateral damage and prolong conflicts, Reuters reports.

The outcome of Friday's meeting in Geneva was welcomed by human rights campaigners who say cluster bombs are indiscriminate weapons that can fail to explode on impact and lie dormant, often causing injury to civilian years after conflict has ended.

"How often do you see the US, Russia, China, India, Israel and Belarus push for something, and they don't get it? That has happened largely because of one powerful alliance driving the Oslo partnership," said Steve Goose of Human Rights Watch (HRW).

The BBC's Imogen Foulkes, in Geneva, says that though the proposal would have eliminated millions of ageing cluster munitions, even military allies of the US, like Britain, chose not to support it.

Many UN member states felt, she says, that getting rid of some cluster weapons while officially sanctioning others would set a dangerous precedent, and might even legitimise their use in the long-term.

The US move was also opposed by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and the top UN officials for human rights, emergency relief and development.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15901152


What is wrong with world governments? How and Why can anyone think that it is okay in todays age to make, produce, sell and use cluster bombs! A military necessity- WTF!
I wish that people that wanted to wage war on others had to go at it in a good old fashioned sword fight. There is absolutely no honour or respect for life with these weapons made soley to be used by cowards and to indiscriminately hurt civillians in years to come. Yuck.

Other links for more information on the issue
U.S. defeated in bid on cluster bomb accord
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/25/us-weapons-clusterbombs-idUSTRE7AO1LF20111125

US pushing UN to lift ban on cluster bombs, say campaigners
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/22/us-pushing-un-cluster-bombs

UK backs bid to overturn ban on cluster bombs
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...to-overturn-ban-on-cluster-bombs-6259139.html

 

[Barnabas]

Their interned use isn't randomly bomb civilian, we've spent the past couple of decades trying to make bombs that only bomb what we want them to bomb. Their intended use is to is to disperse, demoralize and destroy groups of enemy infantry. They have a lot of practical use against modern armies, while they have less effect in the middle east where cover from such weapons is common and fighting in civilian populated areas make the use of such weapons a more risk then value. On the other side though they still instill a great amount of fear in enemy soldiers(for lack of a better word) despite their drop in effectiveness, which leads to a quicker end of combat and less casualties.

 

[acd]

I like the old fashioned way idea. Netanyahu and Ahmadinejad, for example, need to duel it out and be done.

 

[Quiet]

I like the old fashioned way idea. Netanyahu and Ahmadinejad, for example, need to duel it out and be done.

Absolutely! It makes makes me so angry that there are people sitting around in their secure havens condemming people they dont know or undertand to die. If they want these people to die so much they should get of their asses and to their own dirty work with their own hands.

Using bombs against people is such a low and disgusting act. The reality that there are many nations around the world still producing and selling weapons such as cluster bombs is completely devolved.

I used to get on my high horse and think that a lot of leaders around the world needed to be asassinated because they were so vile and harmful to others. And they I realised the vileness in myself for being so quick to condemn people I dont know or understand. In truth I probably still hate these individuals but not enough to destroy them without trying to understand and forgive them first before I decide that is my right to take life.

I think it is hard for most humans to kill. To look at someone in the eye and judge that you have the right to take their life is a hard thing.
If anyone really believes that other people shoud die, please let them ask themselves why they think that their own lives are worth more or more valid than these other humans. This world is for all us.

Self awareness and communication is the answer. Not war


Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Barnabas]

Absolutely! It makes makes me so angry that there are people sitting around in their secure havens condemming people they dont know or undertand to die. If they want these people to die so much they should get of their asses and to their own dirty work with their own hands.

Using bombs against people is such a low and disgusting act. The reality that there are many nations around the world still producing and selling weapons such as cluster bombs is completely devolved.

I used to get on my high horse and think that a lot of leaders around the world needed to be asassinated because they were so vile and harmful to others. And they I realised the vileness in myself for being so quick to condemn people I dont know or understand. In truth I probably still hate these individuals but not enough to destroy them without trying to understand and forgive them first before I decide that is my right to take life.

I think it is hard for most humans to kill. To look at someone in the eye and judge that you have the right to take their life is a hard thing.
If anyone really believes that other people shoud die, please let them ask themselves why they think that their own lives are worth more or more valid than these other humans. This world is for all us.

Self awareness and communication is the answer. Not war


Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Only mildy on point, but have you ever seen the videos of Hitler interacting with people in personal settings, the ones that are a kin to home videos. Here is a guy that is dehumanized and hated by nearly every single person whom has heard is name. He's a monster who sanctioned the death of millions of innocent people, and my God here is a video of him chatting with friends loving children and generally just being a person.

Not some cat stroking world hating master villain, just a guy. Not excusing a thing he did or allowed, but still think about it for a moment.

 

[Quiet]

Only mildy on point, but have you ever seen the videos of Hitler interacting with people in personal settings, the ones that are a kin to home videos. Here is a guy that is dehumanized and hated by nearly every single person whom has heard is name. He's a monster who sanctioned the death of millions of innocent people, and my God here is a video of him chatting with friends loving children and generally just being a person.

Not some cat stroking world hating master villain, just a guy. Not excusing a thing he did or allowed, but still think about it for a moment.

I hear you. I was very struck by the same thing after I studied him. Just a guy. A weak, misunderstood and personally tortured human. While he certainly deserves to be held accountable for his horrific actions I do not hate him. If he were alive he would deserve a trial and then to be punished accordingly. Perhaps by sitting in a cell for the rest of his miserable existance contemplating with his own worst enemy-himself.

I remember seeing a picture of Hitler as a little boy and Ive never been able to get that out of my head. I think he could have been a brilliant person if he had been stronger and less ignorant and self deluded.

I do not solely blame Hitler for all that happened. In some cases he appears to even be a scape goat or a figurehead. Everyone- including every single civillian and soldier need to be responsible and held accountable for their actions in that grievous crime against all humanity. One man cannot make a war. We create wars together out of our mutual ignorance, fear and hate.

 

[Faye]

If it is true that a more strict convention is already in place, then a new one could be seen as loosening the rules that currently regulate cluster bombs. I don't know anything about the issue and am not sure if that is the case or not, but I do know that the US has used similar technology in past armed conflicts and likely wouldn't mind doing so again.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

So that would give the US and its allies license to use them (not that they really care) as we have the capability to continue to produce new cluster munitions. At the same time, countries who are sitting on old soviet(etc.) munitions can't use them unless they are willing to buy them from us, and we are willing to sell. $$ billz y'all.

 

[Quiet]

If it is true that a more strict convention is already in place, then a new one could be seen as loosening the rules that currently regulate cluster bombs. I don't know anything about the issue and am not sure if that is the case or not, but I do know that the US has used similar technology in past armed conflicts and likely wouldn't mind doing so again.

Yes, the new proposed regulations were a loosening of the older rules. It was pretty much asking for a licence to destroy old cluster bombs, manufacture, produce and sell new ones, as well as use these new cluster bombs in conflict situations. The new cluster bombs are supposed to be more accurate, but there are many claims that this is not necessarily the case anyway.

So that would give the US and its allies license to use them (not that they really care) as we have the capability to continue to produce new cluster munitions. At the same time, countries who are sitting on old soviet(etc.) munitions can't use them unless they are willing to buy them from us, and we are willing to sell. $$ billz y'all.

Yes, weapons dealing and war mongering is very lucrative.

I wonder if we would have as many wars if there wasnt as much money to be made from weapons dealing.
This is a sad legacy for humanity