Ti Takeover | INFJ Forum

Ti Takeover

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by Blase, Apr 20, 2010.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 1 user.
More threads by Blase
  1. Blase

    Blase Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Threads:
    18
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INF J/p
    Some posts that enfp can be shy made got me thinking. I've run into some weird feelings and inner conflicts with my Ti. Its kind of hard to explain, but I'll give it a shot.

    One thing is that underneath the Ni/Fe ability to detect people's feelings and emotions, my Ti is often silently analyzing this data. Its like I quantify and label people's interests and behaviors. Like "Bob likes sports, and I don't. So if he's talking about football, I'll just go do something else. But he has a good taste in music, so I'll talk to him about music sometimes, and maybe he can tell me a good band or two."

    This usually disturbs me. I have a tendency to think that most people's minds work this way, they just aren't as aware of it, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Since my Ni thrives on the abstract deeper meaning of things, when my Ti whittles someone down to certain "uses" as if they were a product, that seems to strip a relationship of its meaning, and kind of makes me feel sick, like I'm a bad person. Its not that this happens to me often, but sometimes I need to prevent my kindness from being taken advantage of or to spare myself from martyrdom, or I may lack healthy sources for Fe. In these times, I try and answer questions like "what do I want?" and "whats important to me?", but the way the answers come sometimes seems so soulless.

    Another thing happens to me sometimes when I hear conflicting messages about something from different trusted sources, and feel like I must come to a conclusion on my own. For example, lets use religion. I honestly want to know my stance, sometimes I feel like spirituality is important, but I also doubt its validity. So I'll take ideas like the soul, or the identity, and break them down with scientific information, usually leading me to start to feel like there is no free-will, and that identity is an illusion, just an accumulation of data and processes in the brain.

    Once again, to my Ni these thoughts are likely the most repulsive I've ever had. I depend on meaning, and if I come to the conclusion that I have no meaning and nor does the world in general, than it practically paralyzes me from doing anything. I just have to push away my Ti and forget about it, I guess this is when I move to Se and go for some from of entertainment or comfort to take my mind off things.

    These are two situations I can think of where my Ti makes me uncomfortable. Has anyone had similar experiences? What are your thoughts?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    NeverAmI likes this.
  2. Gaze

    Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Threads:
    2,380
    Messages:
    28,271
    Featured Threads:
    93
    Likes Received:
    22,774
    Trophy Points:
    1,906
    MBTI:
    INFPishy
    i can't say i experience the same but I do feel that my Ni/Fe and Ti (or is it Te? hmm not sure) conflict quite a bit. Since I'm not an expert on the functions and how they work, I'll explain it in my own terms.

    i am very task oriented, meaning that i relate to concepts ideas and how they can be understood and possibly applied to achieve a result or goal. My mind works procedurally. Also, and I'm more analytical than I realized. I evaluate a situation based on the possible ways it could be interpreted or misinterpreted, and I do this with people to a lesser extent. I do think quite a bit about people's feelings, responses, attitudes, concerns, etc. (a Fe based perspective) but this tends to weaken my need to explore and satisfy Ti. I didn't realize how much Ti factored into my thinking when I first came to learn about MBTI. My assumption was that the F or NF explained everything about my personality. But this was incomplete picture. I've now realized how strong Ti is in my thinking and that it isn't exercised enough because of the emphasis culture and social norms place on Fe. I often need to sacrifice Ti to accommodate Fe in the social situations or with those I interact with everyday.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #2 Gaze, Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  3. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Threads:
    197
    Messages:
    8,794
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    949
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFP
    Enneagram:
    5w4
    First of all, I believe I am primarily detached in a neutral state from most things. I believe the way I use this is defined by Ti in terms of Jungian theory and MBTI.

    Now, over many years I seem to have concluded that it is wrong, or at least ineffective to allow myself to stay detached. I had to have some sort of 'connection' or emotional understanding that everyone else seems to do so easily. Of course, signficant life situations tend to expand our scope of emotional understanding and being helped when you are down and out can send a surge of emotional understanding and empathical capacity to one who normally is not inclined to weigh such matters. But even beyond that, I developed some weird sense of guilt, and in turn a massive inferiority complex, which at least had me emotionally connecting on some level, even if it was easily manipulated.

    I acted this way because my detachment scares me. My parents would say 'That is wrong!' Well, why is it wrong? What makes it wrong? or 'He is a bad influence!' And why is he a bad influence? 'Because he will teach you things that are bad!' and why are they bad? 'Because I said so!'

    Take that scenario over and over again with constant variation and eventually it could lead to an inference that since I am gravitated to experiences as such, or at least intrigued by them, that there was something wrong in myself.

    Or take an example of my sister, I had a weird connection with each of my family. One night my sister comes downstairs balling and I am dumbfounded. What do ordinary people do in this sort of situation??? I found that the father of her children (now her ex thankfully) left her shortly before. I wanted to say GOOD RIDDANCE! but I just sat there feeling completely awkward and I think I touched her back or something. There was absoltuely no emotional connection, I felt nothing.

    The same was common in my relationships. My significant other would be upset over something that seemed absoltuely retarded to me. Sometimes it was something I did, sometimes it was something others did. I would just break down the situation, why does she feel that way? How would I feel in that situation? Why wouldn't she have done it this way? OMG it is SO SIMPLE JUST OPEN YOUR EYES! Ok wait, she is going to be mad if I don't react. How should I react? Ok, she doesn't want advice, etc, etc, etc.

    Emotional understanding and development has been a long time coming for me. I am detached to the point where sometimes I do worry that I am a sociopath, but when it comes down to it, I am one of the most sincere and helpful people you will ever meet, as long as I feel you are worthy.

    So yes, I tend to feel a bit conflicted with myself and uncomfortable at times.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Ecton

    Ecton Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJr
    I missed NAI's recent post, so this response is ignorant of what he just posted:

    Hey Blase, if I had to guess, I'd say that these are indeed Ti and Ni playing against each other. But I don't think your utilitarian outlook on people is a necessary element of internal thinking.

    I think you have recognized a personality trait about yourself that you don't like through your conscience, and you aren't sure what to do about it. You can change it if you work on it. You can learn to apply more Fe (but don't let it control you.) But it sounds like the problem falls outside MBTI model and is more of a perspective issue concerning people.

    You can learn to put more about people's feelings and relationships into your thinking. You intuition is already telling you that something isn't right, so try to focus less on the uses of other people and more on their intrinsic value. I think that would help you move in the direction your intuition is following.

    With respect to spirituality, different minds have very different approaches. My brother's approach is similar to yours, and he gets a lot of value out of it. Personally, my spirituality derives more directly from Ni, and then inject that into Ti. But I do LOVE to think about physics problems, etc, with Ti. Einstein really enjoyed doing that too. He had a really amazing Si and Ti combination that let him do experiments in his head. I think this is a great mental activity and is something you should hold on to. If you want to tap more into raw spirituality, try to catch your raw Ni in the act. Here's a starting point: Where does your uncomfortableness with your Ti come from. Pursue that and see where it leads.

    Having read NAI's post:
    (Ecton looks into his cheap-ass crystal ball)
    I think NAI is a deep and introspective person. It's a form of strength. I think there is probably somebody out there that would respect and nurture that strength. And I bet that person would appreciate his ability to analyze things where others get lost in emotional turmoil. And I have the feeling that through that person NAI would gain an empathic connection. But I think he kind of senses this and this is why the loss of a relationship or a potential relationship can be so difficult for him. There are going to be people who can't connect with him and that makes him feel like it is his fault, especially because he is very good at drawing healthy boundaries. But he wonders if maybe he needs to transform. In reality, maybe he already has the capacity, but his roots grow slow and deep. He just needs to find those people he can especially connect with, someone who shares a mutual passion for the relationship but also expects the roots to grow slow and deep.
    (Puts away the ball before it explodes)

    Random thoughts.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #4 Ecton, Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  5. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Threads:
    197
    Messages:
    8,794
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    949
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFP
    Enneagram:
    5w4
    Procedure, tasking, sequencing, strategy, organization all sound like Te to me. I am really not into any of those words, lol.

    Ti wants to play! OOPS I BROKE IT!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Threads:
    197
    Messages:
    8,794
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    949
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFP
    Enneagram:
    5w4

    Mine certainly isn't comprehensive of Ti but geared more towards being ruled by thinking with Feeling being lower on the order of usage.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. OP
    Blase

    Blase Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Threads:
    18
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INF J/p
    I strongly relate to this. I think this detached neutral state allows one to be open minded, and is maybe the best way to see the world with "eyes unclouded". However, I also get that feeling that it's "wrong" in some way to stay like this. I feel like I'm obligated to connect to something, to take some goal, cause or interest and just run with it. But in this neutral state I can never find a reason why I should make that connection, other than just for the sake of doing something instead of nothing. Nothing seems to be more worthwhile or valid than anything else, so all the different possibilities just intimidate me into paralysis. It's like I'm just waiting for something to stick out and seem more important, and then I can focus all my energies into it. I've done this once, but it turned out bad.

    It's happened to me once recently where I got extremely focused. I became concerned with essentially all the world's social justice problems. I started spending most of my time watching movies and reading books about subjects like corporate capitalism, environmental destruction, and 3rd world poverty & exploitation. I breathed a little piece of my activism into nearly every word I spoke, and tried to bring it up in every conversation. It really was an obsession. But then I butted heads with some friends and family. In my encounters I realized I couldn't even fully defend my argument, and that I was starting to see the other side as more and more valid. I suppose after that I've taken up a neutral philosophy, that there usually is no right or wrong, just matters of opinion. That every coin has two sides, and that the world is just one big tug of war, and its basically peoples job to keep tugging both ways so that nobody falls in the mud.

    So now I don't know if I'm a socialist or a conservative, if I'm a Christian or an atheist, and sometimes I feel like I shouldn't care, and I should just never take a stance. But something in me is itching to break out of apathy and to choose something, to make a connection. But anytime I look at one side, I instantly see all of its weaknesses, and the other side seems to balance it out. Is the world just a big philosophical dualistic balancing act?

    Its like my Fe tries to connect with other people's feelings to see whats right, only to find out that nobody agrees on anything, and my Ti just tells me that there is no objective truth and its not worth fussing over anything. Neither of my judging functions are really making any helpful judgments, so maybe me and Ni are in it together for the long hall, and I'll just spend my whole life watching the world go by.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Ecton

    Ecton Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJr
    You might be being a bit hard on yourself, though. You have put a lot of effort into posts that help other people.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Gaze

    Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Threads:
    2,380
    Messages:
    28,271
    Featured Threads:
    93
    Likes Received:
    22,774
    Trophy Points:
    1,906
    MBTI:
    INFPishy
    Yeah, thx. I tend to confuse the functions.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...

Share This Page