Things that exist outside of our senses? | INFJ Forum

Things that exist outside of our senses?

subwayrider

Into the White
Sep 26, 2011
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Wasn't sure where to post this. I suppose Philosophy and Religion is the best fit. They're just some ideas that have been swimming around in my head. This is for fun.

OK. So, take ants, or any other tiny, insignificant insect. They're insignificant from our perspective. They have, I believe, some of the same senses we do: sight, smell, touch, feel. Do you think they are aware of us? Probably not. Sure, they can sense us, but they have no idea the role we play in their lives, not even when we're systemically exterminating them. No clue. Well, for an organism with a brain as small as ant has, this is understandable.
I was thinking about other organisms, too-- like plants. They have no sight, smell, or hearing, but they can feel it when, say, you cut off one of their stems. They have no idea how the hell it happened, but with the use of their one sense, they are aware that something cut it.
So, what I'm getting at... when these things occur, what are we to those creatures? I understand they're not equipped to ponder these things, so we can look at smarter animals, too.
Dolphins: the smartest animals, after humans. They are very aware of our existence, they share our five senses, but they have no idea the control we have over their lives. They have no idea their lives are in our hands. They don't know about our efforts to protect their species, no matter how extensive. Their existence, without their knowing it, is in the hands of a higher power. The same can be said of panthers, panda bears, and so on and on.
So there are two factors that limit an organism's awareness of a higher power: intelligence and how many senses they have.
Now, imagine you couldn't see. You would be missing out on a world of information. Your awareness of your surroundings would be reduced greatly. Now imagine, on top of the blindness, not being able to hear anything. Wouldn't the world then cease to be anything remotely similar to what it is with these senses?
Now, imagine there were more senses than the ones we've been endowed with-- and I'm not talking about balance, etc.
Wouldn't we potentially be missing out on as much as we would if we couldn't see and hear? Wouldn't we be missing out on things that could be happening right in front of our "eyes?" Imagine, on top of these new senses, that we were all smarter by, like, 100 IQ points. Wouldn't the world then cease to be anything like it was to us before? Wouldn't there be things we are blind to now, that we would readily grasp with these senses and intellect? There are things happening all around us, at every moment in time, that we cannot possibly be aware of due to our limitations.
What if there are supernatural beings that operate on a level that we cannot detect with our senses or our current level of intellect? What if, like the dolphins, panthers, plants, and insects, our lives are in the hands of someone or something else, and we are inherently unable to detect this?
 
I personally believe there are supernatural beings/things that operate on a level that we can't connect with our senses with our current level of intellect. Are our lives in the hands of them? I'd like to think not. But it could be because I just hallucinate all the time... I can tell the difference between what is real and what is not under "sane" terms. But it still interests me nonetheless. It's one of those things I like to keep to myself or alot of people will think I'm crazy.
 
[MENTION=4742]eloquent_leo[/MENTION]

you don't think I'm crazy, do you?
 
[MENTION=4717]subwayrider[/MENTION] Haha, no not at all. I like the way you perceived things to come to those questions. It's just I can't tell my family I still see things. They would freak out and would want to put me back on meds...or back in the hospital... I'm functioning just fine as opposed to last year when I had no idea what the hell was going on. Seeing snow fall in the hallway I'm walking in. Asking if someone saw that white rabbit go beind the bush - looking for it, and it not being there. Some other scary shit I don't like to talk about. But I just don't let it freak me out now. I see it, accept it's there for me and not for others.
 
Perhaps there are tons of things that other animals or plants can detect and understand that we cant. Perhaps they watch us and think we're just dumb primitive animals or pets at most.
 
A lot of what you say reminds me of a quote from the book Dune:

Frank Herbert said:
Think you of the fact that a deaf person cannot hear. Then, what deafness may we not all possess? What senses do we lack that we cannot see and cannot hear another world all around us?

You can see examples of this without turning to supernatural stuff. There are many spectrums of light, yet we can only detect it in the visible range, while other creatures can see infrared and beyond, and some portions of the spectrum are only detectable using technology (e.g. radio waves). Neutrinos exist but are very hard to detect even with tech; countless trillions of them pass through the entire planet every second without so much as an interaction. These things might not qualify fully since we do know of their existence, but at one time we didn't, and there could be many more such things out there which may be fundamentally beyond human detection at any point. On the 'intelligence' side, some much simpler animals with much smaller brains are still capable of intelligence beyond standard human level. There was an article recently about bees solving certain computationally difficult problems from graph theory that would keep supercomputers busy for days. I think it's safe to say that the world we experience is only one of many compared to the ones other creatures may be experiencing, each one being just a sliver of the complete, objective reality around us.

In philosophy this all falls under the category of phenomenology; how perception of phenomena relates to consciousness and the reality that we experience.
 
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This makes me think of flowers and bees!... some flowers that might look very plain to us actually have amazing patterns when looked at in the ultraviolet spectrum of light... which is not visible to the human eye, but bees can see... the flowers are saying "hello, come and check out my pollen and spread it around bees!"... how cool that they are flying around seeing a completely different pattern, it's all right there but we can't see it because our eyes don't pick up on that light :)

[MENTION=4717]subwayrider[/MENTION] you might like this video... kind of a cross over between this thread and another thread of yours asking for info about what light is... this guy is a nobel prize winning physicist... he has a knack for explain things with heaps of passion :)

[video=youtube;FjHJ7FmV0M4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4[/video]
 
I find it amazing when you see symbiotic relationships between two different animals. How did they come to realize they would benefit by developing a relationship with the other animal? Classic conditioning? I think this goes along with what you are saying on a more primitive level.

[video=youtube;uxVMeLWzB_o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxVMeLWzB_o[/video]
 
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Humans have more than 5 senses, but it's not really established fact or taught in schools. I was surprised to find out we had a fifth taste, called umami, which most people aren't aware of because they haven't been conditioned to distinguish it consciously like they distinguish salty and sweet. In my opinion, it's all about the possession of consciousness,or the awareness of the context.

http://harvardmedicine.hms.harvard.edu/fascinoma/fivesenses/beyond/extra.php

I'll just post these so that I don't post a shitton of links. They show how our mood, emotions, memory and perception are subconsciously influenced by our senses.

6 ways your sense of smell is secretly controlling your mind
5 ways your brain is messing with your head

There's also tetrachromancy, the condition of being able to perceive 4 color channels, some women posses it, however it's very rare, and consider also the photic sneeze reflex, where the sense of vision stimulates a reflex unrelated to it.
 
That's a good point. In fact our entire body is a symbiotic relationship in itself. Each cell co-operates with the next and communicates with every other cell in our body. There are literally billions of individual animals that make a choice to group together to create a human being. These communications happen mostly without our consciousness ever knowing about it. Creepy.
 
None are as blind as those that cannot see. Ten people will see or notice ten different things sometimes. Ants? Dolphins? Consider the crow.

Our comprehension of things varies so much even with the same senses, it amazes me when someone has loss of a sense and much more acute awareness of another. In rare cases, I am amazed at things a person might notice that nobody else seems to notice. Noticing things can then become belief systems to others, because the others do not notice. It does not exist to them; hence, it becomes obvious to one and stupid to others. I would rather the stupid one be that knows.
 
This is an really interesting thread, so I'm gonna jump in with both feet!

Regarding plant senses: they really know much more than we give them credit. I read a study where Guy X walked into a room full of plants and chopped one up and left. One by one other people came and went. It was only when Guy X came back into the room that the plants reacted electromagnetically -- not only did they understand that a plant had been killed, but they recognized somehow that this was the guy that did it. The only thing we really know for sure about plant communication is that they use chemical messengers... "smells" if you prefer.

When discussing "sensing" I always like to remember that its not simply all our sensory data added together -- the different senses work synergistically, meaning the end result is more than the sum of its parts. Known senses are:
sight (ophthalmoception)
hearing (audioception)
taste (gustaoception),
smell (olfacoception or olfacception)
touch (tactioception
temperature (thermoception)
kinesthetic sense (proprioception)
pain (nociception)
balance (equilibrioception)
acceleration (kinesthesioception)

I don't think that is an exhaustive list. IOW I think that we may have senses that we are not consciously aware of but which we act upon. I have often thought that "spiritual sense" is actually a sense, but not very highly evolved, and difficult for our brain to sort through the perceptions. I've been in college courses that have touched upon the "near death experience" (which really should be called an after death experience) as something which challenges our entire notion of "sensing." Consider that eyes are shut and a brain no longer functioning, yet they "see" the doctors trying to resuscitate them.

When know that animals sense things that we don't. Usually it is an augmentation of a sense we actually do share: a dog hearing high pitches, i.e. But there are also animal senses taht we do not share: sensing electromagnetic fields, water pressure, or currents, i.e. We still don't know how animals can migrate for thousands of miles.

I used to have a cat with a great sense of who was dangerous and who was not. Some strangers she would walk right up to and meow. Other people never got to see her, cuz she's hide first. This cat always avoided the father of one of my son's friends. I thought it was very strange; sure he was a really flakey, but what the hey. Come to find out later on that his criminal record was pretty extensive. "This is not a good man," were the detective's exact words.