The role of Ti in INFJs

[Orion]

There is a misconception about Ti development in INFJs.

Development of Ti does not make you less of a feeler or more of thinker. In good development- it makes you a stronger feeler. What makes you more of thinker and less of a feeler, is the suppression of Fe.

Consider that each function is in a hierarchy, there is a reason why our auxiliary judging function is paired with another judging function. Personally I consider the dom & aux functions to be intrinsically linked, inseparable, as the first two functions are what define your type.

People think that an INFJ with developed Ti, becomes more assertive, abrasive, confrontational, less sensitive, more hard headed and a whole other slew of thinker based traits. This really isn't necessarily true. All of the above would happen if an INFJ were to suppress their Fe. It happens to most INFJs growing up, especially teens. We typically have to battle lots of internal neurosis and issues with other people and the world at large. Life can be harsh, unforgiving and totally unaccepting of INFJs and as young people, Fe is likely to take a back seat because of how wrongly it is treated. Fe decides to take a back seat, remember that.

The question is, what role does Ti play under the direction of Fe? The easiest way to see the differences is by looking at INFJs who have a very Fe perspective and INFJs who have an Fe perspective coupled with a strong Ti input. The result is being more critical. Ti is like a samurai sword, it is an internal, subjective, impersonal value system. Fe is an external, objective, personal principle system. Ti helps sort out what is valuable and useful to your Fe objectives. It cuts through the shit, because Ti searches for the truth in all things. The truth can be subdued for Fe, because it is using it's energy to the up-keeping of harmony and it's personal principles.

But, keep in mind that Fe can act on it's own. If Fe knows something is wrong, if Fe finds a breach in it's value and operation it will act against it in a way that is justifiable to itself. So an Fe can get in a fight, hurt or kill if it feels justified because Fe is all about projecting it's standards of personal principle (Same is true for Te).

You can still have strong Ti and be extremely sensitive. Me and [MENTION=1466]Nela[/MENTION]; have discussed this together. She would openly admit that she is a very sensitive person and though we are both INFJs there are big differences between us, namely, I am not as sensitive as she is. But there are times when I am really surprised because when we talk about things, I'm some times taken aback by how incisively her criticism (Ti) gets to the heart of an issue. She can spot the bullshit in an argument faster then I can! We are both dealing with slimy estate agents right now and she's been advising me on the evils of their methods and is much more in tune with spotting their sales techniques and behaviours and how to subvert them.

Much like the Fi>Te dynamic, Fe>Ti helps the individual define for themselves a more solid base of operations that is more likely to weather the storm of others expectations and criticisms but Ti development is not synonymous with becoming behaviourally or externally "harder" or "tougher", though that might be your prerogative and that might be something that you feel you need to survive. As long as you are always staying true to who you are and what you believe, it can be a healthy thing too. Some people use Ti to "harden up" in their current environment, some people use Ti strengthen their feeling- it's all down to the individual and what they need to be happy.

In normal, healthy operation, Ti works under the control of Fe to help it define itself, become more relevant and make your beliefs and actions consistent, honest and realistic.

Healthy Ti development makes you more of a feeler not less. :hippie:

 

[Firefly]

Very interesting post, thanks for sharing

 

[Miss Adventure]

hee, you answered my question in part while i was still asking it in my thread. Thank you very muchly for this! that is boredline eerie! But now i have another question, once you supress your FE, how do you get it to back out of hiding? Like I want them to work together and *not* fight for the top dog spot. Sorry for being annoyingly inquisitive, I'm just finding this all rather eye opening and i ask lots of questions.

 

[Trifoilum]

THANK YOU.

The way I see it; the use of Ti is the same with the use of Fi; to somewhat give a 'value' on what you expressed; Ti gives a logical value, and Fi gives a personal value (for instance, I would say 100%Fe 0%Ti would be "You'll know what I feel but not what I think about this matter", while 100%Te 0%Fi would be "You'll know what I think but not what I feel about this matter."

And yes, I agreed that it -is- a suppression of Fe that makes other INFJs more defensive, prickly, and critical, not the development of Ti.

Interesting words usage you used there, though; you may not believe it but I also use samurai sword to describe my Ti.. >_>;

[MENTION=3887]Miss Adventure[/MENTION]

hee, you answered my question in part while i was still asking it in my thread. Thank you very muchly for this! that is boredline eerie! But now i have another question, once you supress your FE, how do you get it to back out of hiding? Like I want them to work together and *not* fight for the top dog spot. Sorry for being annoyingly inquisitive, I'm just finding this all rather eye opening and i ask lots of questions.

Find the reason -why- are you suppressing your Fe and let it out gently. For instance, are you afraid of being seen as 'meek and subservient'? Or have the results of your Fe only brought you troubles?

I think the key is to cooperate. I personally see both (and all the other functions) have their own perspective on one matter, thus the key is to let them cooperate (I have my own way, but you may use yours)

 

[Fox Mulder]

I agree with the OP. I also believe that the dichotomies are more of a preference than anything else. For example, I believe a feeler can have very well developed thinking functions (maybe even rivaling their feeling functions), but they would still prefer to use the feeling functions if given the chance. People are naturally adaptable and will develop to best fit their circumstances.

 

[Broken705]

Great thread!

I should have read it before I posted mine in here.:doh:

Ti is difficult for me to understand for some reason. I am at a point now where I'm trying to "develop" it.

I had thought that it might harden me up, as you said.

 

[Majesty]

I'd say more balanced instead of stronger.

But this is a good post

 

[Orion]

I'd say more balanced instead of stronger.

But this is a good post

Not really, because that assumes that Fe is yielding to Ti, when in healthy development, it isn't. Fe stays the same but Ti props it up.

This is really difficult actually. For an individual to remain very strongly Fe based whilst developing Ti because it can be seen as the antithesis so as one grows and develops the Ti may swing things round wildly.

But from my experience, there are people I know who have managed (which amazes me) to be extremely Fe heavy but also with well developed Ti. It doesn't mean they reached a 50-50 because then we are going back to the notion that Ti erases a bit of one's Fe in order to find "balance".

There is much more room in the psyche for differentiation then most people realise.

 

[arbygil]

Suppressing Fe can also give the impression that the person is a thinker rather than a feeler, but that's not true; they're simply developing their functions.

I do feel, though, that it's a balance. That once Ti is developed, Fe can function even *better.* There's no flying off the handle in anger so much - you honestly think about what's going on first and you try to process it before reacting. It's a good feeling, so to speak.

 

[Orion]

Yes it is balance in a sense because the psyche as a self regulator is a basic philosophy of Analytical psychology, hence the term "self regulating psyche" which is key to understanding why the cog functions are in opposition to each other and why they are structured the way they are.

According to Jung, the psychic energy (libido) of psyche is always trying to balance and find union between opposites, this is what makes us grow and adapt. Fe>Ti, in this example is a very real struggle for most INFJ's.

But when people say balance, sometimes they mean that Fe diminishes to balance out Ti but I don't think that is the case in healthy development, at all.

 

[Orion]

This concept when taken to unhealthy extremes, in Jungian terms, is called progression or regression.

In "On Psychic Energy", Jung talks about the essence of all psychic activity, the libido, which is a term he took from Freud and removed the sexual denotation. So libido means, in Jungian terms, life force or direction. This psychic energy is responsible for the unifying of opposite in the consciousness.

Though, the tertiary function is considered to be in the unconscious. So the development of Ti is a process of individuation. But the blockage a function, for example Fe, would be considered regression.

"[...]Consequently, when these functions are activated by regression and so reach consciousness, they appear in a somewhat incompatible form, disguised and covered up with the slime of the deep."

By slime of the deep, Jung is referring to the undifferentiated and infantile form of the undeveloped "shadow" functions. Your Psyche knows these functions shouldn't be let out because of the destructive form they will take.

Anyway, the stoppage or damming of the psychic energy from reaching it's opposite to counterbalance causes regression with the dominant attitude, so you adapt to the world using your tertiary function because some defense mechanism and complexes are giving your psyche reason to abandon your Fe.

He talks about this in the dominant feeler with inferior thinking terms, but I've placed what he said onto the issue with the auxiliary and tertiary. Not sure if that's right or not.

 

[Feelings]

I always wondered what the difference between Ti and Te is. I always felt that Ti tends to ramble more and ponder at length on stuff just for the hell of it and not cut straight to the point, and that Te takes a much harder line in assessing the usefulness of everything. I'd like to know more clearly what the difference is.

 

[Arsal]

I always wondered what the difference between Ti and Te is. I always felt that Ti tends to ramble more and ponder at length on stuff just for the hell of it and not cut straight to the point, and that Te takes a much harder line in assessing the usefulness of everything. I'd like to know more clearly what the difference is.

T - putting things into organized categories, hierarchies, lists, trees, etc.
Ti - the above, via subjective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so I can understand it, based on my subjective definitions.)
Te - the above, via objective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so everyone else can understand it based on objectively verifiable definitions.)

 

[arbygil]

T - putting things into organized categories, hierarchies, lists, trees, etc.
Ti - the above, via subjective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so I can understand it, based on my subjective definitions.)
Te - the above, via objective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so everyone else can understand it based on objectively verifiable definitions.)

Ah, I see - and this makes much more sense. Ti makes sense; I usually process why I must organize something but it's often only clear to me. Trying to explain *why* I'm doing something after I've processed it (or before I'm processing it) can be extremely difficult for me.

Thanks, [MENTION=3538]Arsal[/MENTION]!

 

[Feelings]

T - putting things into organized categories, hierarchies, lists, trees, etc.
Ti - the above, via subjective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so I can understand it, based on my subjective definitions.)
Te - the above, via objective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so everyone else can understand it based on objectively verifiable definitions.)

It sounds like Te is better then. Why use subjective personal definitions over objective ones?

 

[This]

It sounds like Te is better then. Why use subjective personal definitions over objective ones?

Because people don't live in petrie dishes.

 

[Arsal]

It sounds like Te is better then. Why use subjective personal definitions over objective ones?

Eh, because they're meant to be used only in the moment, sort of disposable little models of logic to make sense of the world. It's not the same as long-term Te logic, which remains consistent.

For objective verification, Ti-users have Fe. It would probably make more sense to compare Fe to Te and Fi to Ti.

 

[Feelings]

Eh, because they're meant to be used only in the moment, sort of disposable little models of logic to make sense of the world. It's not the same as long-term Te logic, which remains consistent.

For objective verification, Ti-users have Fe. It would probably make more sense to compare Fe to Te and Fi to Ti.

So Ti user's objectives are defined by Fe i.e. how it makes someone else feel, and Te users objectives are based on Fi i.e. their sense of values?

 

[Arsal]

So Ti user's objectives are defined by Fe i.e. how it makes someone else feel, and Te users objectives are based on Fi i.e. their sense of values?

Sort of. Your definition of Fe isn't right.

F - harmony/symmetry
Fe - harmony based on shared compromise (external)
Fi - harmony based on individual emotional/mental equilibrium (internal)

Fe/Ti = Everyone should have equal social position, but internally be more or less efficient at their individual talents.
Te/Fi = Everyone should have the social position they deserve based on objective testing/criteria, but internally be at peace with themselves and their worth.

 

[Arsal]

Example of Te/Fi philosophy:

There is nothing wrong with cognitive preference; if you accept you have a type then you accept cognitive preference. If you are INFJ you prefer your own type and dislike other types more. This is a natural consequence of the system in place - the hint was in preference.

Busy-body political correctness that says otherwise which has little place in the detailed discussion of typology and indeed in the out-of-typology community as a whole.

Example of Fe/Ti philosophy:

And let's not turn this into (yet another) X type is better than Y type battle. Seriously, we have enough of those and we all have our personal stereotypes and opinions on this (which we should keep to ourselves). There are positive and negative people everywhere, regardless of type.

I've said this countless times and I'm saying it again: No type is better than another. We all have faults and pitfalls and the better we recognize them in ourselves as individuals, the better. Also, seriously: Find out who you are and be yourself. It's too much hard work trying to be a type you're not. It doesn't matter if you're an INFP, INFJ, INTP, INTJ, ISFJ, ISFP, ISTJ, or ISTP. Recognize your preferences, play to your strengths, work on your weaknesses, and be the best person you can be.