The infamous "I" mentality | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

The infamous "I" mentality

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by just me, Nov 6, 2019.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 12 users.
More threads by just me
  1. Hostarius

    Hostarius Saudade Retard

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    Threads:
    32
    Messages:
    9,417
    Featured Threads:
    15
    Likes Received:
    66,501
    Trophy Points:
    4,131
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2
    Yup. It's fucking annoying. Not Te at all, lol.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Ren, dragulagu and John K like this.
  2. John K

    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    4,085
    Featured Threads:
    3
    Likes Received:
    36,891
    Trophy Points:
    2,332
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5W4 549
    Quite. All the attempts to invalidate solipsism that I’ve come across can only do so by assuming some aspect of the thing it rejects. For example there’s no appeal possible to neuroscience because that assumes an objective material world.
     
    Ren, just me, Sandie33 and 2 others like this.
  3. John K

    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    4,085
    Featured Threads:
    3
    Likes Received:
    36,891
    Trophy Points:
    2,332
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5W4 549
    In fact if we accept a materialist world view I can’t see how we can avoid an implication that each individual is locked into their own virtual reality
     
    Ren, just me, Sandie33 and 1 other person like this.
  4. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    World view, if that is permitted here, is totally subjective according to one's usage of the world. Few could possibly sum up the world in a book. Using it only as facts leaves too much out. The world is really the word? Oops: left the "L" out.
    We should explain where the world is and its surroundings. Maybe we should explain the world's permeabilities? Should we mention love...and anger? Volcanoes? Pollution? Surely we do not think we understand all the facts. Do we each have our own world? Or do we all have the same world?
    upload_2019-11-7_23-44-28.jpeg


    A man was working his retriever gathering ducks. Another man had a good duck down on a small island of grass, but no dog. He asked, "May I borrow your dog to get my duck?" The man with the dog yelled back, "He won't work for you."
    The man without a dog said, "Then you won't mind if I try," and sent the dog right downwind of the duck and had the dog come to hand with the duck. The owner got angry and started yelling at his dog. The other guy sent the dog to its master after a pat on the head and a comforting, "good dog."

    Some folk want to be all about themselves. Some people like to share. The dog was willing to help, as it was doing what he had been trained for. Innocence can be a great thing.

    The "I" mentality always uses the word "I" in everyday speech. Many people grow tired of it after awhile. It can be a sore spot in lower leadership. After a man has been told what to do by the big boss, "we" need to do this and that to the workers sounds so much better. It is all in the making of a leader. Which sounds better? "I need to sit down and talk to you"....coming from a secondary boss, or "we need to sit down and talk." It does not infer everyone is of the same mind: it just sounds better.

    Write a paragraph describing your accomplishments in meekness without the use of the word "I". Once again, we need first person singular; maybe just not all the time. Thanks for all the likes and participation.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #64 just me, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
    John K, dragulagu and Ren like this.
  5. Ren

    Ren Pin's android

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2017
    Threads:
    54
    Messages:
    9,872
    Featured Threads:
    28
    Likes Received:
    78,443
    Trophy Points:
    4,121
    Location:
    Dublin
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    458 spsx
    True.

    I’m curious to check whether there are influential arguments, besides Wittgenstein’s, to the effect that solipsism as traditionally conceived is incoherent. That would presumably not have to rely on the ‘objective external reality’ axiom.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    John K likes this.
  6. John K

    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    4,085
    Featured Threads:
    3
    Likes Received:
    36,891
    Trophy Points:
    2,332
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5W4 549
    I think the trouble with Wittgenstein's argument is that it assumes the 'I' is looking only at a single world, but it isn't - at least at a naive level. My I isn't a point but a surface that separates my inner world from the outer one. Each of these worlds are not-me, but are disjoint. I have far more confidence in the existence of my inner world, because I apprehend it directly - it's only through an act of faith that I believe there is an outer world because I can only access it through the metaphors that my mind creates in order to express it in terms that I can grasp. Even so, there are different orders of doubt - although i am far more sure of the reality of my inner world than my outer, that doesn't provide certainty. In the end, my experience of my I-ishness is just that - an experience. That experience is itself a sort of illusion, because I don't have any real knowledge of what I am as seen from outside myself so what I experience as 'I' is a projection - I don't think the source of the projection is much like the projected image, but that is an intuition that I can only express and not justify.

    I don't think this deep reflection leads away from the OP made by @just me. My own encounter with solipsism is through experience, not conceptualisation, and may well not actually fit its philosophical definition. It was horrible, there is no other description for it - an experience of hell. I was alone, there was no time, no space - everything was just an extension of myself and illusory. There was no-one else, just me, now .... without future or past. The ultimate bad trip, but without any chemical trigger. It sounds silly when written down, but it wasn't.

    The way out is really a vindication of Just Me's OP. I was thrown back inside myself, and several years after this experience, I was rescued by someone deep inside me who was not me. The experience of everything being me was turned inside out - it's still profoundly subjective, and there is still only 'I'. But it's not my 'I' any more but Our 'I'.

    All I can say is that the conventional materialistic perspective is profoundly deluded. There is an intimate relationship between all things that exist that means I share their reality with them, and they with me. Together we are an amazing reality.
     
    just me, dragulagu and Ren like this.
  7. Ren

    Ren Pin's android

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2017
    Threads:
    54
    Messages:
    9,872
    Featured Threads:
    28
    Likes Received:
    78,443
    Trophy Points:
    4,121
    Location:
    Dublin
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    458 spsx
    At work right now John so I cannot engage with long posts (well technically I shouldn't engage with any post but I am a French rogue) but I'm really excited to read this later. :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    just me, dragulagu and John K like this.
  8. John K

    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    4,085
    Featured Threads:
    3
    Likes Received:
    36,891
    Trophy Points:
    2,332
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5W4 549
    Oh! No rush Ren. Probably nothing here I haven’t said before in other contexts.

    Hope your work is a good fit for you.
     
    dragulagu likes this.
  9. dragulagu

    dragulagu Galactic Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Threads:
    49
    Messages:
    1,575
    Featured Threads:
    10
    Likes Received:
    7,234
    Trophy Points:
    1,077
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Andromeda
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    549
    +1 at the conversation here on solipsism, can't form a proper final argumentation yet (for/against, got stuck) so here's hoping to see a follow up in the thread here of the conversation.
    There must be a way to tackle the perspective of solipsism from a philosophical point of view...there must be!

    @just me, +1 on the examples, this is a whole topic on its own, the nuance of language. Hopefully more examples passing around, interesting as well.
     
    just me and John K like this.
  10. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Threads:
    76
    Messages:
    5,534
    Featured Threads:
    23
    Likes Received:
    30,997
    Trophy Points:
    1,956
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    75402053_10156683514078715_4799964173364625408_n.jpg
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. John K

    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    4,085
    Featured Threads:
    3
    Likes Received:
    36,891
    Trophy Points:
    2,332
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    5W4 549
    Maybe just one soul living every life - clouds forming and reforming, flying by in the wind, or the braided themes of a great music.
     
    ThomasJ79 and Asa like this.
  12. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    by Dr. Neel Burton

    "And so the meaning of life, of our life, is that which we choose to give it."

    Notice his use of "our" and "we". This is not about what was said, but in how it was said.
    We. Our.


    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    12 For now WE see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." Come, and see.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #72 just me, Nov 10, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    John K likes this.
  13. Professor Snep

    Professor Snep Smart. Sexy. Snep.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    2,014
    Likes Received:
    7,423
    Trophy Points:
    1,182
    MBTI:
    Potions
    Enneagram:
    Leviosaaaa
    [​IMG]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    John K and just me like this.
  14. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    I once had a boss who would tell me what HE wanted me to do every day several times a day. Now he portrays what we need to get done every day.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #74 just me, Nov 10, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    John K likes this.
  15. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    Such a pleasing reality to read and see.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    John K likes this.
  16. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    Hence, calling members of a team by their own names empowers them. A lone, young, or hurt animal is targeted by predators in Africa and elsewhere. Predators work as a team to separate the single from the group before the coup de grâce.
    There is safety in numbers, but there are always exceptions to the rule. The percentages is with a well-organized group of the same mind.

    "Let's all go to town and get drunk!" Agreed there are times it is best to separate oneself from a group. Great point.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    John K likes this.
  17. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    Also, the "nuances of language" would be a great subject and is part of this. We may mean something, yet say it all wrong, and be turned away. I had somewhat of a problem with that when
    young and trying to approach someone that made my head feel funny and spin. Being poor and around those who came from more rich families made it difficult to feel bold. It can be difficult, saying the right words when one's heart is fluttering.

    Conversation and communication can get different results with different words. Words can set the world afire. Words can calm the seas. Words can mislead. Words can start wars. Words can cause confusion. Words can test us. Words can make us stronger. Words can make us laugh. Words can make us cry. Words can create. Words can destroy. Words can heal. Words can reject. Sometimes words can turn people away; yet, cause others to gather together.

    copied..."A door does not close; it thuds."

    Words have long been used to communicate something without actually saying it. How we use our words can set the course and put us on auto-pilot the rest of the day, or they can open the door for a gifted day. Sometimes omitting words can do the same. We can hear without understanding, and we can see without knowing. Understanding some things requires the help of others. What we can see can be far more than what I can see. What might be omitted may vary according to the audience of those that might hear or read the words.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #77 just me, Nov 10, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    John K likes this.
  18. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    "The pen is mightier than the sword."

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    upload_2019-11-11_12-57-50.jpeg
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    John K likes this.
  19. OP
    just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    211
    Messages:
    12,020
    Featured Threads:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6,195
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    Let all things be done unto edification(of the body). Let us use the word "body" here as "all we"., or "us all".
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    John K likes this.
  20. Bas

    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Threads:
    14
    Messages:
    179
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    508
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    On this beautiful planet God made! :-D
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Just me, I'm not sure whether you're asking something or just saying something. Either way, I agree that "We" is a great thing to say, when it can be applied as appropriate; however, to say "I" shows one is taking responsibility for one's own thoughts and feelings. So, "I" can understand both sides of this idea. :)
     
    John K and just me like this.

Share This Page