The Greek Riots | INFJ Forum

The Greek Riots

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Satya, Dec 10, 2008.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Do you think the riots over in Greece are just the first wave of a tide of violence that is going to wash over the world as a result of the global economic downturn?
     
  2. Shai Gar

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  3. Shaz

    Shaz Community Member

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    I think it's something to do with the state of their own country rather than the consequences of the crisis.

    It started with a teenager being shot by a policeman, but it was just the last straw I think. Repression in Greece is big, and they have economic trouble of their own (obviously aggravated by the world crisis), as well as social issues, young people getting miserable salaries and such. To be honest I don't know how they made it into the euro zone in the first place.

    The funny (well, it's all relative) thing is that in France right now we have a lot of protest against a reform of the educational system and our president got scared our students would get inspired by what's happening in Greece... It's true there have been incidents in Italy and Spain while people were manifesting against what happened there...
     
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  4. alcyone

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  5. Solus

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    I think that Sarko still remembers the riots that shook France in 2005 (albeit for different reasons than those in Greece) not least because at the time his populist remarks aimed against the protestors really gave his popularity a boost. Also, an internet poll in Le Monde conducted a week ago suggests that one French in three not only supports the revolt in Greece but would like to see something similar taking place in France. Though it's only an internet poll I think it's still worrying.

    In any case I don't think the global economic crisis is the cause of the riots because it's just too early for that. When you have people venting their anger at the police I think one can be pretty sure there is something wrong with the society in question.


    Economic hard times equals more robberies and burglaries? Sure, but this looks like civil unrest and as such, I think, cannot be reduced to a mere criminal activity.
     
    #5 Solus, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  6. Shaz

    Shaz Community Member

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    Heck that's a lot! Hello fellow French (I assume) INTJ by the way! If it's a poll based on people visiting the Le Monde website though it's probably not representative of the population as you say... But one in three is huge! But I guess striking and such is a national sport :smile:
     
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  7. alcyone

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    The significant increase that MacYoung talks about is 'Stress Violence'. And civil unrest is a manifestation of such. After all, an overly opressively police force didn't happen overnight.

    However, as long as there are jobs to be had, food is afforable, etc....the every day blokes will tolerate the oppression....they may grumble, bitch and moan, but as long as their survival needs are being met, there is no incentive to escalating to a riot or civil unrest state of affairs.

    With the turn down, needs aren't being met on wide scale in our societies. When corrupt governments and agencies can't provide and fail to , only then does the mob act on its outrage with the corrupt system. Lashing out at 'authority'. It's likely to get worse until things get better, especially in the richer countries. After all, none of us are accustomed to deprivation.
     
  8. Solus

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    Salut Shaz. Sorry but despite references to Le Monde I think I can be best described as a Croatian Ça m'interesse reader. :smile: But seriously, I came accross this poll in Le Monde and was slightly surprised. As for striking being a French national sport, it's actually Spain, the UK, Italy, Germany and Belgium that had most working days lost due to industrial action in the EU in 2006. :smile:

    I see your point and have in principle nothing to disagree with. However, there are several things which make me doubt the assertion that we are seeing here the consequences of the global economics crisis. Firstly, these are student riots. Apparently the unemployment among the Greek youth is above 25 per cent. This is, of course, hardly exceptional as there is a number of countries afflicted by what is basically structural unemployment. And as is always the case with structural unemployment, it didn't appear over night. Secondly, as far as I can tell only Athens and Thessaloniki are hit by the protests. Why not the rest of the country? Despite all the problems faced by Greece it seems that this revolt has swept only a portion of the population. If so, what makes it then different from riots that "traditionally" take place in some European countries (Mayday demonstrations in some German cities spring to mind).

    Of course I may be wrong.
     
  9. Shaz

    Shaz Community Member

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    Wow, this is just great. I need to write it down!! Thanks ^^ for some reason everyone always thinks of the French as being the biggest strikers... To be honest I'm surprised by the statistics! Especially Germany and the UK...
     
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  10. Solus

    Solus Newbie

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    :smile: I can't find the page where I got the 2006 data, but here is a link to the UK Statistics Authority where there is some useful information for 2005:

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/elmr0407.pdf

    The results are pretty similar.

    "In 2005 the UK lost six working days per 1,000 employees to labour disputes, a sharp reduction from the 2004 rate of 34 days per 1,000 employees. This put Britain below Finland, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Ireland, Portugal and the Netherlands, all of which had higher rates of days lost."

    I suppose the French grévistes are just more talented at showmanship. :smile: Think of José Bové some years ago or the French farmers.
     
  11. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

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    Yes, I think so.
     
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