Sophistication and Refinement

[Trifoilum]

What is sophistication and refinement (as in, being 'refined') and how would they be defined?

Are these concepts heavily tied to class, or can it be separated? Can one be a rube and sophisticated at the same time?

 

[the]

There is a certain level of grace and "overdoing it" involved I believe. There is also an element of going against the ways of the common man (i.e. proletariat). However in some cases you are supposed to overdo under-doing it. Its all very nuanced.

 

[bolognamacaroni]

I think sophistication and refinement are classy, but you don't have to be upper class to possess these traits.

Sophistication and refinement are an attitude. They're about carrying yourself confidently, yet subtly, without over doing it or being over the top.

I have a co-worker who, to me, is the epitome of sophistication and refinement. She's gorgeous without makeup, she stands tall, she glows, she's soft spoken, yet not a push over. She speaks well, she's funny, she has values, is well read, and well traveled... The right mix of cultured and down to earth. I don't know a single person who has a bad thing to say about her. She's the definition of grace. (If you guys can't tell, I absolutely adore her. Haha.)

More generally, I think Kate Middleton is a good example of sophistication//refinement. The Kardashians, not so much.

Also,

Can one be a rube and sophisticated at the same time?

No.

 

[Night Owl]

Good thread.

Online definition of refinement: "cultured elegance in behaviour or manner."

I concur with [MENTION=731]the[/MENTION] on the matter of an element of going against the common man, that is, carrying oneself in a manner distinct from the rudimentary mannerisms of the 'average joe'.

I had to Google what "rube" meant (unless you meant rude), rube meaning the equivalent of a redneck or country hillbilly, or what in Australia we might call a feral or bogan (though, slightly different). I don't believe refinement and sophistication can go hand in hand with being rude or a rube.

[MENTION=14657]bolognamacaroni[/MENTION]'s description of gracefulness is very apt, and that woman she describes seems to be the epitome of elegance and sophistication.

Society would only deem someone middle class and above, as having the possibility of being refined and sophisticated. Yet I'd say anyone, no matter their socio-economic class, may be refined and sophisticated if they are somewhat graceful, charming, articulate, self-confident and secure within themselves, pleasant, kind, affable, polite, intellectually rounded, informed and somewhat well read, but without the air of snobbery or arrogance, and all these things must be naturally possessed and communicated not contrived. And as [MENTION=731]the[/MENTION] said, neither overdoing it, nor underdoing it. In keeping with Aristotle one might say, the refined person is a well moderated individual - whose presence is not heavy and overbearing but light and always welcome.

Edit: There's a universality to refinement and sophistication, but also a particular/relative dimension. I suppose I am describing such features in Western societies (and those societies that are quite similar) in general.

 

[Trifoilum]

There is a certain level of grace and "overdoing it" involved I believe. There is also an element of going against the ways of the common man (i.e. proletariat). However in some cases you are supposed to overdo under-doing it. Its all very nuanced.

overdo under-doing it? o_o for example..?

 

[Trifoilum]

I think sophistication and refinement are classy, but you don't have to be upper class to possess these traits.

Sophistication and refinement are an attitude. They're about carrying yourself confidently, yet subtly, without over doing it or being over the top.

I have a co-worker who, to me, is the epitome of sophistication and refinement. She's gorgeous without makeup, she stands tall, she glows, she's soft spoken, yet not a push over. She speaks well, she's funny, she has values, is well read, and well traveled... The right mix of cultured and down to earth. I don't know a single person who has a bad thing to say about her. She's the definition of grace. (If you guys can't tell, I absolutely adore her. Haha.)

More generally, I think Kate Middleton is a good example of sophistication//refinement. The Kardashians, not so much.

Intriguing. So you're saying it's something like...being balanced in terms of personality -and- expression, coupled with lots of knowledge and experience (and being balanced in expressing these too)?

 

[Trifoilum]

Good thread.

Online definition of refinement: "cultured elegance in behaviour or manner."

I concur with @the on the matter of an element of going against the common man, that is, carrying oneself in a manner distinct from the rudimentary mannerisms of the 'average joe'.

I had to Google what "rube" meant (unless you meant rude), rube meaning the equivalent of a redneck or country hillbilly, or what in Australia we might call a feral or bogan (though, slightly different). I don't believe refinement and sophistication can go hand in hand with being rude or a rube.

@bolognamacaroni's description of gracefulness is very apt, and that woman she describes seems to be the epitome of elegance and sophistication.

Society would only deem someone middle class and above, as having the possibility of being refined and sophisticated. Yet I'd say anyone, no matter their socio-economic class, may be refined and sophisticated if they are somewhat graceful, charming, articulate, self-confident and secure within themselves, pleasant, kind, affable, polite, intellectually rounded, informed and somewhat well read, but without the air of snobbery or arrogance, and all these things must be naturally possessed and communicated not contrived. And as @the said, neither overdoing it, nor underdoing it. In keeping with Aristotle one might say, the refined person is a well moderated individual - whose presence is not heavy and overbearing but light and always welcome.

Edit: There's a universality to refinement and sophistication, but also a particular/relative dimension. I suppose I am describing such features in Western societies (and those societies that are quite similar) in general.

Yes, I do mean rube.

Hmmm, so you're also saying it's a mixture of manners and knowledge (or more wisdom?).

That list of traits you mentioned does seem rather...long.

 

[brightmoon]

Whenever I hear the word "rube" I think of this scene

[video=youtube;EMVqIISyp60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMVqIISyp60[/video]

 

[bolognamacaroni]

Intriguing. So you're saying it's something like...being balanced in terms of personality -and- expression, coupled with lots of knowledge and experience (and being balanced in expressing these too)?

I really don't view sophistication and refinement as a verb or a noun. I think they're adjectives that describe an attitude or style. Art can be refined. Literature can be sophisticated.

There are multiple characteristics of sophistication and refinement that people can possess. It's all rather subjective and you will probably have a challenging time finding a universal meaning.

Personally, I think Kate Middleton is a good example of refinement and sophistication. Someone else might think she's a hag.

 

[Night Owl]

Hmmm, so you're also saying it's a mixture of manners and knowledge (or more wisdom?).

That list of traits you mentioned does seem rather...long.

Yes, a long list of traits, but most of those traits mentioned are synonyms really, so to summarise by expanding the aforementioned definition: cultured elegance in behaviour or manner, involving a rounded knowledge, but possessed in a manner as one's own - and thus as wisdom.

As [MENTION=14657]bolognamacaroni[/MENTION] says, it's a descriptive term. And although there is a universal aspect to 'being refined' or sophisticated (i.e. I doubt any culture would see someone who is discourteous in accord with their own customs as 'refined' or its equivalent); and there is an objective dimension according to culture and time (i.e. someone who wears a loin cloth and speaks with obscene manners will never be deemed by present Western society at large as 'refined'). But beyond this, mostly such descriptive terms are subjective.

Plus, as with all such descriptive terms, they come in degrees and kinds - there are different types of refinement and sophistication. One might say person X is refined because of A, B and C; whilst also agreeing that person Y is refined but because of D, E, and F.