Socionics! | INFJ Forum

Socionics!

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Horsehop, Aug 5, 2009.

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  1. Horsehop

    Horsehop Newbie

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    http://socionics.us/intro.shtml

    Since I've given up trying to explain it myself, enjoy the link!

    Socionics has definitely helped me feel less lonely (always a danger :() and be more accepting of others. And a lot has to be said for duality. It's really an experience.

    Also, I'll be interested to see how INFJs type themselves. As I said in my incredibly long-winded intro, I'm an IEE, of the Delta quadra. I suspect many INFJs will fall into the Delta quadra too.

    info on quadras here. The rest of the wiki is fair game, of course, but I'd start with socionics.us, as it does a good job of laying out the basics.

    And of course, even if I can't explain too clearly what Socionics is, as your resident fake expert, I'll be glad to field any questions you may have.
     
  2. Tamagochi

    Tamagochi Sushi Destroyer
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    Do they have free cookies? :m035:
     
  3. Shaz

    Shaz Community Member

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    I don't know much about socionics but I remember wandering on their website and reading these physical descriptions of types... Thought it was a bit odd. I'm sure they have plenty of very interesting stuff though. I need to look into it when I have enough time. And I like their little symbols :D
     
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  4. OP
    Horsehop

    Horsehop Newbie

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    Always. Find a Senser, and con them in to cooking some for you. Just another handy application!

    There are quite a few sites dealing with Socionics. Which one are you talking about?

    At any rate, since Socionics types work differently to Myers-Briggs, Socionics types tend to leave little signs. Extraverts will tend to have more obvious energy, and as a quirk, the Irrationals within those will tend to have lots of jerky movements. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzeJwylo78&feature=channel <- Bajo is an EP, Junglist is an IP. Note how Junglist barely moves, and when he does, it's fairly fluid.

    Anyway, it's equally possible to draw out type based on what sort of themes a person uses in discussions, as well as speech peculiarities. There's an article about this here.
     
  5. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    I've looked into socionics a little here and there, but never in-depth. I think I might consider doing that.
     
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  6. Tamagochi

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    As far as I know socionics is based on the same Karl Jung's cognitive processes as MBTI. The fancy shapes are just to code functions Ni, Ne, Ti, Te etc. And they also have types based on those functions. What confuses me is their application of cognitive processes to particular types.

    INFJ type in MBTI has the following underlying code: Ni Fe Ti Se (Ne Fi Te Si).
    INFJ in socionics: Ni Fe Si Te (Se Ti Ne Fi)
    INFP in socionics: Ne Fi Ti Se (Te Si Fe Ni)
    (in parenthesis are shadow functions)

    The Ni Fe Si Te combination does not exist in MBTI world and Ni Fe Ti Se does not exist in socionics. So there's no direct translation between two systems.

    Socionics interpretation seems strange to me because it ignores dyschotomies described by Jung (the dyschotomies are N-S and T-F pairs). The rule here is that if person is introverted on one end (for example Ni) then he/she must be extroverted on the other end (must have Se). Socionics model alows both Ni and Si functions as active.

    The bottom line is that MBTI INFJ takes half of the functions from socionics INFJ (Dostoyevski) and half from socionics INFP (Esenin). And that is what bothers me when I read socionics type descriptions: half of description fits me while the other half does not.
     
  7. OP
    Horsehop

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    Good post :)

    Anyway, to clarify:

    An INFJ in Myers-Briggs uses Ni, Fe, Ti and Se (I'm not sure in what manner though--someone else fill in for me here).

    An INFj (or EII, or FiNe, or Dostoyevsky) in Socionics primarily lives in a world of Fi: they know what people feel about and expect of themselves and others. The focus on this Fi leads to two weaknesses; one of which is conscious, the other is unconscious due to the intense focus on the "base" function (Fi for an EII). Due to the Fi focus, they inherently have difficulty with the Ti realm of impersonal ideals. Also, due to living in a world of "moral imperatives", they tend to neglect (not consciously, mind you) practical reasons for doing things, instead living in a world of "This is what is expected of me, this is what I will do". I haven't figured out how to address how they use Fe, but it's inherently linked to a conscious weakness in Ti.

    Those functions are known as the "accepting" functions. They're all built around complementary pairs, one of which is conscious, the other of which is a resulting behavioural trait. They're called "accepting" because they're how you passively accept information.

    The functions are known as the "producing" functions. The thing that sits next to Fi, called Ne, is called the "creative" function. The entire producing line is how you interact with other people. For introverts (XXIs), that's creating something worth being included for. In EIIs, that's achieving their own high internal standards. Due to focusing on the intangible, they're often not able to defend themselves in the "now", 'because I'm still getting there'. Due to this focus on Ne, they often have an idea of how things should be, and how to get there; but often fall prey to materializing such visions "later" (not sure how the dynamic works here).

    So, in other words, you only use your two ego functions. The rest are byproducts, essentially. This wikisocion page explains the functions and how they're related.

    Practical example time!

    It can be useful to look at intertype relations as trades involving psychological services.

    I'm an IEE, so my dual is the SLI. SLIs are incredibly adaptable creatues, so much so that they often have no idea how to break out of things, and get "stuck" just adapting constantly. I value this: they're stable, without being boring. At the same time, I'm naturally able to see a horrid tangled mess of potentials and alternates, which they value. I turn the pond into a brook, so to speak. Out of that I get a burbling brook to chillax and enjoy :D

    One of the jobs of the Extravert in socionics is creating a context or environment to facilitate interactions. I do that with Fi, or reaching out to people and inviting them to open up and share their opinions and experiences. Additionally I verbally reinforce the status of a relationship, something which SLIs can't assess too easily (which leads to them being very loyal and patient, which is a plus). I also tend to accumulate vast amounts of information, albeit in a very low-resolution and fairly unstructured form. I've found that SLIs are naturally good at filtering through this and making sense of it all :p I'd say additionally they strike me as knowledgable, and I value knowing things :p

    That's about all the ramble I can squeeze out of myself. I have no idea if any of it is useful or not.

    EDIT

    Don't hold me to my EII description, btw. I was just trying to use it as an example for how everything in a Socionics type is linked up.
     
    #7 Horsehop, Aug 6, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  8. Pristinegirl

    Pristinegirl Well-known member

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    I took it and I typed as EIE (Ethical intuitive extrovert) which is the ENFJ equivallent.

    However, I should actually be IEE (Intuitive Ethical Extrovert) the ENFP equivalent. So I don't know what the problem is really?

    Also why is it impossible to have an Ne and Fe combination?
     
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