Severe lack of Te

[DingChavez]

I have a severe lack of Te in my life, infact I am convinced that it's my devilish function (my 8th function, thus most underdeveloped). Everytime I try and use it to bring order in my life, it brings chaos. Everytime I try and organize a goal or plan using sources from the outside world, it never gets done.

Everytime I try use facts/data to back up/argue a point, things end up more destructive and complicated than they are. Sometimes I even end up fighting, and falling out with that person for a while. I suck at being efficient with resources a lot of the time... Oh, and my bedroom is a mess, even after I organize it.

I have decent people skills, and am a lot better at organizing people, and knowing their motives and cheering them up than I am organizing the external world to my benefit.

How can I use my Te for me, instead of against me. Any suggestions? Has anyone here had similar experiences? Please share!

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[thirdhalf]

Are you trying to develop your Te? Or trying to work around your lack of it? Sometimes embracing the way you are and then working around the side effects is an effective way to go on about life. Not everybody can do everything well, you have your natural talents just as you have your struggle points.

Can you modify your goals or plans to be more in line with the way you think? Can you argue your point in a more natural way to yourself? Why not just focus more on people and less on organizing?

If you do want to try and improve things check out the methods behind Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, or CBT. Pretty much using repetition and behavior modification in a 'fake it till you make it' style, keep forcing yourself to practice your Te over and over until it becomes a little more developed. Not going to happen quickly or easily.

 

[DingChavez]

Are you trying to develop your Te? Or trying to work around your lack of it? Sometimes embracing the way you are and then working around the side effects is an effective way to go on about life. Not everybody can do everything well, you have your natural talents just as you have your struggle points.

Can you modify your goals or plans to be more in line with the way you think? Can you argue your point in a more natural way to yourself? Why not just focus more on people and less on organizing?

If you do want to try and improve things check out the methods behind Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, or CBT. Pretty much using repetition and behavior modification in a 'fake it till you make it' style, keep forcing yourself to practice your Te over and over until it becomes a little more developed. Not going to happen quickly or easily.

Well, the main reason I would like some form of Te (even if it's 'fake') in my life is because I would like some control over my environment/structure, and to plan things efficiently for going into my college course in September. Another reason is that my Dad is an ESTJ, and he's constantly barking at me to be more efficient, logical, to do things the right way, and be structured.

I know not everyone's perfect at everything and we have our own skill areas, but I think some Te would do good in my life. And adjusting my goals to my thought process might be a tad difficult when they are objective goals, as supposed to personal/interpersonal goals. I know I can use Ni and Ti to plan these goals, but Ti seems useless when they are linked to the outside world, and need concrete information to achieve them.

Yes, I could try and use people to help me achieve these goals, but these are goals I have to reach by myself, as this is my preparation for my course. Of course it's going to be hard to accomplish these goals on my own, as I struggle with self-motivation, but they will be worth it, once I accomplish them. Although I could try and get other people involved in my progress to a degree, they won't help me that much.

Organization has always been one of my weak points. Almost every school report card commented on my awful lack of organization in my schoolbag, my schoolwork, my workspace etc. I struggle with keeping objects structured and my personal evironment clean, yet I know where most things are, except when I freak out over losing something important.

So... CBT would teach me how to make my Fe more object orientated than people orientated, until I achieve my goals? It would be an objective version of Fe that focused on objects instead of people from that behaviour? An alternative Fe in a sense? Fe version two xD

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[barbad0s]

Just manipulate your friends and family with your emotions. They will help you.

 

[barbad0s]

I think it makes more sense to learn how to emotionally soothe your ESTJ family member so that their barking becomes more manageable that way. Alternatively, take the advice of them and actually do what they tell you to do. You know what they say about ESTJs. Depending on the individual, they can make you feel like they are the "other people" in "hell is other people". They won't change or go away just because you want them to.

Honestly you'll be just fine. INFJs are often superstars in upper education. Stay in contact with others around you who are doing well and steal insight from your peers like you should already know how to do.

 

[thirdhalf]

So... CBT would teach me how to make my Fe more object orientated than people orientated, until I achieve my goals? It would be an objective version of Fe that focused on objects instead of people from that behaviour? An alternative Fe in a sense? Fe version two xD

You would teach yourself, or if you went to someone for help they would help you teach yourself. Its just a method.

You will likely never be like your Dad because you are you. You can try and learn a new skill but it will not make you into somebody else.

 

[DingChavez]

I think it makes more sense to learn how to emotionally soothe your ESTJ family member so that their barking becomes more manageable that way. Alternatively, take the advice of them and actually do what they tell you to do. You know what they say about ESTJs. Depending on the individual, they can make you feel like they are the "other people" in "hell is other people". They won't change or go away just because you want them to.

Honestly you'll be just fine. INFJs are often superstars in upper education. Stay in contact with others around you who are doing well and steal insight from your peers like you should already know how to do.

Emotionally sooth? *laughs hard* The only emotion he knows is anger. And I do try to soothe him, but he yells about incompetence to everyone. It does my head in.

I can hack into his soft side though, but it's only temporary. With my jokes, lol.

You would teach yourself, or if you went to someone for help they would help you teach yourself. Its just a method.

You will likely never be like your Dad because you are you. You can try and learn a new skill but it will not make you into somebody else.

I know it's a method, but transferring that method into something understandable is the difficult part, especially when the concept is alien to you.

I'm not trying to be my Dad, I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind his actions, and an insight into how his mind actually works in comparison to mine.

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[charlatan]

I think current day typology needs a bit of sorting out between the more cognitive science side and the more temperamental side. The trouble with psychological types theory is that it kind of sits at the borders, because we're not exactly just trying to conceptualize "how you think" ... that would just be ordinary cognitive science. But rather, we're trying to see how psychological themes creep into the philosophies of how we understand the world.
I do not think by any stretch there's a one to one relation between this and the more temperamental aspects.

What you describe sounds to me a little more on the temperamental side. If you identify as beta-NF in socionics, and perhaps as IEI which is the one with Te most painful, then what you're more or less seeing is in part related to how IP and EJ are very different temperamentally. The latter tends towards implementation of agendas, is very result and productivity-centered, and so forth.

This is all nice, but helps to distinguish it from the more conceptual aspects of type. At the end of the day there's nothing preventing a highly organized, pedantic individual from prioritizing introverted intuition. In socionics you could call such a person a IXI-N subtype.

A lot of the prototypical Ni types to Jung were more or less seers/prophet types, and some of these exactly display something like a disdain for Te, more or less because it tends to ask: what can we actually produce in a measurable way? Why is Te said to be fact-oriented? I'd say the best explanation for the socionics pov is that algorithmic thinking really is about what you can produce, and how efficiently you can produce it. So it tends to be more concerned with transforming raw substance to substance, than in coming up with a framework within which to look at substance, if that makes sense. Thus it needs real facts as input and output.
A lot of the monks and seer types you'll meet tended exactly to be very Ni-oriented types with feeling, rather than logic --- where their goal in and of itself is to feel, reach a certain attitude, and as a result it becomes less and less measurable in a logical way, less and less clear what is procedurally going on, how results are being obtained.

You can really see the Ti HA + Fi demonstrative as more or less coming from the fact that IP and IJ are a lot closer together than IP and EJ.
Obviously Fi is stronger in a F type.
I think the point here is again, to take those seer examples, they are more likely to come up with frameworks to look at what they're doing (although they'll be hesitant to define them too rigidly) than to really measure it in a goal/result fashion.

 

[charlatan]

It also helps next to this to understand how Ti is introverted in the first place -- Ti is not directly related to produced results. Introverted judgment tends to be concerned more with defining the overall framework within which we can set such goals and so forth.

So for instance, where Fe is concerned with the full dynamics occurring between two people --- how what X said to Y made Y feel and so forth, Fi is concerned with the a priori distance between them, their basic ethical relation. Intuitively, extroverts are more interaction-based, and Fe in socionics deals with the outcome of these interactions (Fi would be what is true independently of interaction)

 

[charlatan]

In socionics, introversion of elements is conceptualized using the idea of fields: that is, things which influence an object independent of it exerting its own influence/asserting its nature/exhibiting its potential.
So the idea of introverted perceiving in socionics works from the vantage point that irrational consciusness is the observation of states, as they are, rather than in terms of how they it into frameworks... and the extroverted perspective involves the exhibition of objects' potential and tangible influence (Ne and Se), and introverted perspective rests on the idea of de-emphasizing the object in favor of the currents/influences which more or less determine its course.
A way to think of this is to picture a rock, and realize there to some extent is no static thing as the rock: it was built through a bunch of events taking their course naturally and it will be unbuilt similarly.
This is the Pi+Te point of view on it perhaps contrasted with a more Se perspective on it.

Note that in socionics, a Pi-base has demonstrative Ji, meaning it has a version of adhering to Jung's idea that the auxiliary is subordinate to the dominant and thus acts in the same attitude. But the "creative" is how the auxiliary can exert its own energy.

To picture this, the Pi perspective in aforementioned Pi+Te consciousness is more or less given by de-emphasizing our ability to measure and logically define the progression between states (i.e. how the rock is built), since any given such measurement incompletely encapsulates the way the events occurred and singles out only a portion amenable to rational scrutiny. Notice here how the Te perspective works better to give an alternate take on the Si perspective that more or less says a similar thing, but a rational standpoint instead.

 

[charlatan]

Usually ego-superego conflicts occur from the standpoint of each being more or less an aspect of the same picture.
Theoretically if the ego perspective is attained, the superego one is too. For example, if there's no logical contradiction, there really shouldn't be an ethical contradiction. But of course, the reality is that this doesn't always happen, because it's easy to misestimate the situation when you don't look at it from the right eyes.

The obvious examples of this would be philosophers fighting on how to talk of ethics... some take a highly Ti-centric point of view. The others insist on bringing back in the need to relate with feelings to what's going on.

There's a lot of stuff you can do exclusively from one perspective, but eventually the other one creeps in and asks nagging questions.

Simple examples would include if Te requires a logical goal to be attained, it becomes important for the relevant parties to have the right kind of emotional motivation so the process keeps going smoothly and efficiently. So there ends up being a nagging sense of whether this aspect was messed up in the Te calculations.
I think the dual element is considered useful more or less because it's least close to the ego, thus most suggestive, and thus not something the ego perspective has a very strong take on.
With a Te base type, when Fe or Ti input is given, it'll be very tempting to try to argue things more from the Te perspective. One can't accept those as they are, because they overlap too much with the content Te deals with. It'll always be tempting to try to reframe them towards one's ego agenda.