Rethinking Intimate Relationships? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Rethinking Intimate Relationships?

I was thinking more in relation to ones sexual preferences, or what turns a person on in terms of interrelational dynamics, if that makes sense.

I think that is so varied, person to person, that there isn’t any kind of descriptive guide.

The resources I linked were definitely of the “do you feel sexual attraction, and if so, when, and to who?”

I managed well enough when I was a younger man, but it would have been very helpful back then to have some idea of the range of people’s experience of sexuality, in particular to the attraction part. I knew I was different, but I wasn’t sure why. I didn’t feel ashamed or broken, but there were times when it would have been very helpful to have words to use to describe my experience, and to know I wasn’t alone.

You may want to check out this older thread (and do the test): BDSM test

And also read this thread, which is newer: Sex. Sex? Yes, Sex.

For the latter thread in particular, I suggest reading all previous posts before posting, as this will give you a good idea of the both the tone and tenor of the thread, as well as the bounds of acceptability.

Cheers,
Ian

edit: can’t spell, red -> read
 
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I think your idea is largely based either on a personal ideal or a 'best fit' for the average person. There might be a lot of wisdom in this, but such a traditional approach leaves many people sexually frustrated and lonely for many years. I don't see much wisdom in that for everyone and all situations and circumstances, which points back to my original idea. No doubt it's complicated to say the least, but I'm sure many people have bent the "rules" and far from regretting it, have gained from the experiences.
I wonder if INFJs in general struggle with this area of life. Hitler was dysfunctional sexually, even though he had great personal charm and charisma.

A few years ago, I had a female customer who was attractive enough, come onto me in a blatant way (asked me out, tried to almost coerce me into bed) but her level of desperation and methods (among other things) completely killed any desire I might have had. Of course, being an INFJ, we are super fussy as to who we are attracted to (although less so if it's just a casual thing). I wouldn't have been at all averse to such a direct and quick encounter had the chemistry been right, but it wasn't. I smelt desperation and trouble in her. As a general and related point, the more you try and make someone like you, the more you tend to repel them.
Actually, I have made no universal claims, but since you seem to want to discuss it, but weren't polite enough to ask if I had any universally applicable claims, I'll take your comment as a question.

I think all people get sexual boredom, frustration, etc eventually. Our senses and enjoyments seem to follow a pattern of diminishing returns over time.

If my assumption is correct (even admitting some exceptions), the best approach isn't one which addresses sensual preferences or an exploration to discover preferences, but rather an approach which addresses relationships which can be satisfying once the novelty of sex fades.
 
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I think all people get sexual boredom, frustration, etc eventually. Our senses and enjoyments seem to follow a pattern of diminishing returns over time.

You raise an very interesting point here, and one which has been on my mind and should have been included in my original statement.

Given most relationships seem to display a reduction in sexual excitement and enthusiasm over time, but not a reduction in love, doesn’t this suggest something is inherently wrong with most LTRs, at least on a sexual basis? If a couple lose interest in sex per se, that’s fine. But I suspect most don’t and simply are either accepting this to maintain the relationship or don’t realise what they are missing. This would be a great example of when a new partner could really spice things up in the bedroom. I’m sure many affairs are started for these reasons. Wouldn’t it be better if we acknowledged the ‘7 year itch’ phenomenon and then we could perhaps have the dual benefit of exciting sex and a loving LTR? Again, I know this has and does happen, but it’s pretty rare. I have heard of wives being ok with husbands going elsewhere for sex. Much of the trouble it causes is either that the extra curricular is with another married person or similar; and ultimately it is the issue of conventional expectations linked to morality. Nobody owns anyone else. We are ok with our partners having fun with others outside the bedroom, why not also in the bedroom? If both are doing similar, maybe the jealousy is nullified? Step outside the sexual Overton window lol
 
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You raise an very interesting point here, and one which has been on my mind and should have been included in my original statement.

Given most relationships seem to display a reduction in sexual excitement and enthusiasm over time, but not a reduction in love, doesn’t this suggest something is inherently wrong with most LTRs, at least on a sexual basis? If a couple lose interest in sex per se, that’s fine. But I suspect most don’t and simply are either accepting this to maintain the relationship or don’t realise what they are missing. This would be a great example of when a new partner could really spice things up in the bedroom. I’m sure many affairs are started for these reasons. Wouldn’t it be better if we acknowledged the ‘7 year itch’ phenomenon and then we could perhaps have the dual benefit of exciting sex and a loving LTR? Again, I know this has and does happen, but it’s pretty rare. I have heard of wives being ok with husbands going elsewhere for sex. Much of the trouble it causes is either that the extra curricular is with another married person or similar; and ultimately it is the issue of conventional expectations linked to morality. Nobody owns anyone else. We are ok with our partners having fun with others outside the bedroom, why not also in the bedroom? If both are doing similar, maybe the jealousy is nullified? Step outside the sexual Overton window lol
That's the normie position now. Accepting that sex isn't as important as committed long-term exclusive love is both old school, and radical today.
 
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That's the normie position now. Accepting that sex isn't as important as committed long-term exclusive love is both old school, and radical today.
Maybe true for many. Seems people can’t break free from a limiting paradigm. Why should we have to choose one over the other? That’s the false choice many face or self-impose. I know I’m Ti childing all over this, but there is logic to my idea. Trouble is, sex is the last taboo. Even with all the so-called permissive society, we still struggle to talk about sex. It’s either conventional societal norms of marital sex with affairs, or swinging, serial bed hopping. No in between. The normal behaviour demonises anything different as odd or silly or immoral, when it absolutely doesn’t have to be. Maybe I’m just too open minded in this area and not representative. I’m here to push barriers, that’s what INFJs are meant to do. Most will conform to SF/SJ behaviour but many will cheat or fail to do it, without acknowledging why, or questioning why. It’s lacking insight imo.
 
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I think all people get sexual boredom, frustration, etc eventually.

Many, likely most, but not all.

Our senses and enjoyments seem to follow a pattern of diminishing returns over time.

All other things being equal, in general, I agree with this. As with all mammals, humans desensitize to repeated stimulus inputs, whatever the domain.

If my assumption is correct (even admitting some exceptions), the best approach isn't one which addresses sensual preferences or an exploration to discover preferences, but rather an approach which addresses relationships which can be satisfying once the novelty of sex fades.

This sounds good, but there are many ways that relationships can be addressed in this context.

Given most relationships seem to display a reduction in sexual excitement and enthusiasm over time, but not a reduction in love, doesn’t this suggest something is inherently wrong with most LTRs, at least on a sexual basis?

No, not necessarily. Given no other information, I’d always bet on communication issues, lack of mutual reciprocity, ignorance (willful and otherwise), unmatched/unheard/unappreciated expressions of love, and personal issues that present outside the bedroom first, before thinking there was something wrong sexually.

Of course, there you have things like libido mismatch to deal with, among many other things.

If a couple lose interest in sex per se, that’s fine. But I suspect most don’t and simply are either accepting this to maintain the relationship or don’t realise what they are missing

The former, yes, the latter, definitely not. People know what they are missing. I’d suggest a certain subreddit, but I don’t want to depress your mood, lol.

Wouldn’t it be better if we acknowledged the ‘7 year itch’ phenomenon and then we could perhaps have the dual benefit of exciting sex and a loving LTR?

Aside from everything else mentioned here, I agree in general, but not everyone experiences said itch.

Accepting that sex isn't as important as committed long-term exclusive love is both old school, and radical today.

Agreed, so agreed.

The normal behaviour demonises anything different as odd or silly or immoral, when it absolutely doesn’t have to be.

Well, maybe mainstream media and its normal, but the world is much bigger than that, and people choose and act accordingly, each according to their need. Are some trapped by mainstream media normal? Sure, but some also find themselves and find a way out. The mainstream is usually a shit yardstick by which to consider one’s life.

It’s either conventional societal norms of marital sex with affairs, or swinging, serial bed hopping. No in between.

Perhaps in the mainstream, but as I said, the world is much bigger than that. People make choices and engage with others in all kinds of ways that will never be described or portrayed in the mainstream, or called normal, even those activities that would otherwise be described as vanilla.

Sex is so particular to the individuals involved that only the most genericized and banal versions are suitable for marketing purposes (commercially prostituted for the purpose of generating profit).

With a new partner, or partners, you have to reach a mutually-agreed-upon set of rules of engagement. Each time, every time. That means you have the opportunity to advocate for both what you bring to the table, as well as what you need and want. That agreement is living in that it must be recreated continually, is subject to revision and addition, and must remain mutually-agreed-upon.

In this way, the primary limitation to our happiness, well-being, and pleasure is typically ourselves. I say, get out of your own way and go live the life you want.

Those that mind don’t matter and those that matter won’t mind.
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Cheers,
Ian
 
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