Responsibility for Mental/Psychological Health/Well-being

[PintoBean]

Cases of trauma caused by actual physical abuse and rape draws the line pretty darn clearly when it comes to responsibility and blame imo. It messes people up and many end up with serious disorders . However as unfair as it may sound, and seeing in some cases, the responsibility for getting back up lies on the victim, not on the person who perpetuated it...

Ultimately, what you say is true. Everyone bears responsibility for their own well being. On the other hand, we have a whole area of law (civil) set up to make sure that perpetrators of crimes and carelessness in effect help their victims "get back up." People who are abusive or negligent towards others can bear great responsibility for the recovery of those they harm.

 

[La Sagna]

Learned helplessness is one reason that some people end up not being able to help themselves:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2009/11/11/learned-helplessness/

If a dog is abused and becomes afraid of people or of certain situations, do we blame the dog?

People who have gone through traumatic childhoods have a much more difficult time functioning 'normally' in society.
Sometimes all they need is a little bit of support and non-judgement to help them overcome the way their brain was programmed in childhood so that they can become healthy contributing members of society.

 

[sprinkles]

Learned helplessness is one reason that some people end up not being able to help themselves:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2009/11/11/learned-helplessness/

If a dog is abused and becomes afraid of people or of certain situations, do we blame the dog?

A lot of people would blame the dog.

People who have gone through traumatic childhoods have a much more difficult time functioning 'normally' in society.
Sometimes all they need is a little bit of support and non-judgement to help them overcome the way their brain was programmed in childhood so that they can become healthy contributing members of society.

People forget that real quick when they don't respect somebody. Actually, lack of respect seems to be directly proportional to the amount of "that's your problem."

We clearly cannot depend on others.

 

[BrokenDaniel]

Ultimately, what you say is true. Everyone bears responsibility for their own well being. On the other hand, we have a whole area of law (civil) set up to make sure that perpetrators of crimes and carelessness in effect help their victims "get back up." People who are abusive or negligent towards others can bear great responsibility for the recovery of those they harm.

That was what i was refering to. With the law thing. As for other cases, i see it in a different light, and i'm not one to go around pointing fingers who's to blame so quickly and adamantly. Specially in family or close relationships.

it depends entirely on the singular cases one by one. If the person who's to blame doesn't recognize it, nor is willing to help, then what can you do? Difference of perspectives imo and different dynamics. I had this friend once who's mother used insult by calling her bitch/whore in front of anyone, dated her friends, and also stealed her money among other pretty crazy abusive shit. But she still lives with her as far as i know, also she helps her and gives her company and stuff. i used to urge her to just leave that place as soon as possible, and many our friends said the same, but she just didn't wanted to leave her. So what else can you do? Fill a lawsuit to keep her mother out from her? Confront her mother? that probably would make things worse if she's not up for it for messing up with things that she doesn't want to. There's a dynamic there, and in many cases this doesn't allow others to interfere, even if it's for genuine desire to make things better. Hopefully someday she'll realize the twisted power struggle she got herself into.
As fathers go, they all seem to leave some kind of emotional scar or conditioning on their childs. In varying degrees obviously. It's an intrinsic part through the endless multicolored waterfall that we call life imo.

 

[PintoBean]

That was what i was refering to. With the law thing. As for other cases, i see it in a different light, and i'm not one to go around pointing fingers who's to blame.

it depends entirely on the singular cases one by one. If the person who's to blame doesn't recognize it, nor is willing to help, then what can you do? Difference of perspectives imo and different dynamics. I had this friend once who's mother used insult by calling her bitch/whore in front of anyone, dated her friends, and also stealed her money among other pretty crazy abusive shit. But she still lives with her as far as i know, also she helps her and gives her company and stuff. i used to urge her to just leave that place as soon as possible, but she just didn't wanted to. So what else can you do? There's a dynamic there, and in many cases this doesn't allow others to interfere, even if it's for genuine desire to make things better. Maybe someday she'll realize.
As fathers go, they all seem to leave some kind of emotional scar or conditioning on their childs. In varying degrees obviously. It's an intrinsic part through the streaming flow of life imo.

I see your point. There are too often enmeshed/codependent dynamics in abusive relationships. It's true that people do have to stick up for themselves. Though, no I don't think scars/trauma are an "intrinsic part through the streaming flow of life." I think there are fantastic parents who definitely manage not to scar their children!

 

[sprinkles]

I see your point. There are too often enmeshed/codependent dynamics in abusive relationships. It's true that people do have to stick up for themselves. Though, no I don't think scars/trauma are an "intrinsic part through the streaming flow of life." I think there are fantastic parents who definitely manage not to scar their children!

I couldn't depend on anyone for almost half my life. My survival depended on sticking up for myself. That is why I take responsibility for everything I do because sure as fuck nobody else would.

Break your leg in the wilderness and you better be able to fix that shit yourself or you will die.

 

[invisible]

Not convinced it is necessary (or necessarily helpful) to assign blame in order to resolve problems; not convinced that problems have a justifiably identifiable root cause consistently enough for assigning blame to be a worthwhile approach to resolving problems.

Not that I don't believe in justice - I do! (At least I think I do. Um, somewhat.) I'm just not convinced that it solves problems.

 

[sprinkles]

Not convinced it is necessary (or necessarily helpful) to assign blame in order to resolve problems; not convinced that problems have a justifiably identifiable root cause consistently enough for assigning blame to be a worthwhile approach to resolving problems.

Not that I don't believe in justice - I do! (At least I think I do. Um, somewhat.) I'm just not convinced that it solves problems.

There's more than one way to solve a problem usually.

 

[invisible]

There's more than one way to solve a problem usually.

Sure. I concede! Blaming may solve some problems some of the time.

 

[sprinkles]

Sure. I concede! Blaming may solve some problems some of the time.

Blame is not entirely the same as responsibility anyway. Blame carries a guilt implication but responsibility doesn't inherently imply guilt. We can be responsible for doing good things for example.

The fact that everyone jumps to guilt right off the bat is very telling of what people think about responsibility.

 

[invisible]

Blame is not entirely the same as responsibility anyway. Blame carries a guilt implication but responsibility doesn't inherently imply guilt. We can be responsible for doing good things for example.

The fact that everyone jumps to guilt right off the bat is very telling of what people think about responsibility.

Maybe, or it could have something to do with other more particular topical discussions involving some similar themes? Responsibility is definitely a complex thing to think and talk about.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I agree I think the blaming is ultimately futile in terms of achieving resolution or solution. It doesn't achieve anything constructive in response to the problem.

Blame is a loaded term. Identifying causality is important both as a preventative and remedial factor, as [MENTION=731]the[/MENTION] points out (below). But factors of personal loss and liability can also be significant. In some jurisdictions, for example, police with PTSD may be compensated by their employers, while in other areas they may have to pursue civil cases against particular individuals they have dealt with in the course of the work.

I disagree. Blaming is finding the root of the problem so you can fix it.

And who has to pay for both fixing it, and the personal/financial loss suffered in the meanwhile.

 

[sprinkles]

Maybe, or it could have something to do with other more particular topical discussions involving some similar themes? Responsibility is definitely a complex thing to think and talk about.

Yes. Responsibility is not the same as culpability. Responsibility is assigned. Consider the fact that in some cases people take responsibility for things they didn't do in order to protect others. Or even in some cases take credit for things they didn't do in order to get the benefits.

People also assign responsibility to others in order to feel uninvolved.

 

[the]

Not convinced it is necessary (or necessarily helpful) to assign blame in order to resolve problems; not convinced that problems have a justifiably identifiable root cause consistently enough for assigning blame to be a worthwhile approach to resolving problems.

Not that I don't believe in justice - I do! (At least I think I do. Um, somewhat.) I'm just not convinced that it solves problems.

Whose feelings are you trying to protect?

 

[invisible]

Whose feelings are you trying to protect?

Sorry but I got a bit confused by that question. I started to ask myself, what are my own feelings, and how do they relate to the feelings of others? What am I really "trying" to do by talking about this? That was when I stopped being able to figure it all out. Sorry I can't give you a proper answer!

 

[PintoBean]

I couldn't depend on anyone for almost half my life. My survival depended on sticking up for myself. That is why I take responsibility for everything I do because sure as fuck nobody else would.

Break your leg in the wilderness and you better be able to fix that shit yourself or you will die.

I don't know how this relates to the discussion. And I have no idea what you mean about depending on someone for "almost half my life." Maybe you'll explain.

 

[sprinkles]

I don't know how this relates to the discussion. And I have no idea what you mean about depending on someone for "almost half my life." Maybe you'll explain.

Codependency happens when people feel like they can't escape or can't let go. It's addiction to another person. The majority of my immediate family was dysfunctional and codependent on each other for several generations. I was surrounded by it and had nobody to turn to so I had to cut myself out. I had to learn to not be a part of it even if it meant having nobody. I didn't really even have friends as a kid because I couldn't really see anybody else outside of school since my mother was too psycho. I can literally count on one hand the times I had a friend over or went out to play with somebody combined and I remember them all in particular. But I'm determined to not let that be an excuse for anything.

 

[PintoBean]

Codependency happens when people feel like they can't escape or can't let go. It's addiction to another person. The majority of my immediate family was dysfunctional and codependent on each other for several generations. I was surrounded by it and had nobody to turn to so I had to cut myself out. I had to learn to not be a part of it even if it meant having nobody. I didn't really even have friends as a kid because I couldn't really see anybody else outside of school since my mother was too psycho. I can literally count on one hand the times I had a friend over or went out to play with somebody combined and I remember them all in particular. But I'm determined to not let that be an excuse for anything.

I can totally relate to this.

 

[La Sagna]

Here is an excellent Ted Talk on addiction and some theories about its causes:

https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_ha...you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en

 

[Trifoilum]

Can you blame others/structures/etc. for psychological problems?

Yes. To say otherwise is to presume that only we ourselves have free will, and others are like...force of nature. Mindless. Lacking need and want and intention and desire.

Because even social structures are built, maintained, and enforced by humans, or if sentient robots have started enslaving humanity, sentient beings.
Sentient.

Therefore there are malice. There are accidents and failures. There are desires and annoyance and aggravation. There are stereotypes and fallacies and everything.

Can you be blamed for psychological problems?

Also yes. Because we, for the most part, have free will, and while I understand certain individuals in certain situations have a harder time to do things and less chance of success.... for the most part we have our own parts to play to how our life turn out to be. Whether it's choosing or not choosing to do things.... ultimately our decision too, is important.

Who has a responsibility to do something about it?

Both parties.
Even the best individuals can be hindered or pressed or flattened by a fucked up world.
And even the best society, circumstances, assistance will do shit if the individuals in question did not do good with it.