Religion | INFJ Forum

Religion

say what

I like soft things...so soft!
Jan 8, 2014
3,630
1,022
0
MBTI
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4..maybe?
I've been thinking about some things lately, mostly through discussion with [MENTION=10289]Rift Zone[/MENTION], and thought I would ask you guys your feelings on a few of these questions.

What IS religion?

How do you define religion? Or what are the characteristics of religion?

What makes something a religion and not others?

How does religion differ from spirituality?

Is atheism a religion?

I recently began Bron Taylor's book "Dark Green Religion" and the first chapter is about this question (http://www.brontaylor.com/environmental_books/pdf/Taylor--1b-ch1-pp.pdf). It really made me question how I view religion, and what is considered a religion.

Here's an exert of some of the characteristics that he says are largely attributed to religion:

What are these resemblances, the elements that are constitutive of religion? Here is a list that includes those most typically articulated characteristics of religion that focuses especially on religion’s natural dimensions.

Religion, or the religious dimensions of life and culture, is often if not usually characterized by:

Beliefs in or concern about (and regarding) supernatural beings or spirits, or dramatically extra-ordinary forces, which are sometimes explicitly understood as divine or holy or conceptualized with a similar cognate.
Division of the world into sacred and profane objects or domains or spaces.

Ritual acts and forms, often focused on sacred objects or spaces, but sometimes also having to do with seemingly mundane matters, such as birth, food preparation and consumption, and death.

Beliefs and practices about, and believed to be related to, earthly and/or otherworldly destruction, and/or redemption/salvation/healing (where healing may alternatively be physical, emotional, spiritual, or all three).

Practices and techniques including trance and other extraordinary states of consciousness.

Processes and pressures that seek to get individuals or groups to alternate or retain religious allegiances and belief systems–conversion experiences and the failure or reversal of such experiences.

Affective feelings and experiences of awe, mystery, shame, love, empathy, devotion, hatred, or rage, which tend to be evoked through ritualizing or other routinized practices, and are generally believed to be conducted in the presence of sacred beings, places or things, or in concert with their wishes.

Beliefs in and practices (often, if not usually, with strong anthropomorphic dimensions) related to communicating or communing with supernatural or divine or extraordinary powers, or ultimately meaningful beings, or spirits, or forces.

Understandings of the cosmos and the place of the earth and people and other living things in it, often understood as having ultimate meaning or as being some kind of holy order; such understandings may provide a sense of well being, belonging, and/or connection between individuals and the wider spiritual/ethical communities with whom people feel associated. Such religious understandings help people to cope with and find meaning, especially in the face of anomic realities such as suffering and death.

Ethical understandings of the proper place for people and other living things in the world; these may promote or hinder social solidarity (identify morally considerable kin groups) and/or function to serve the economic, prestige, and power interests of some individuals and groups more than, or at the expense of, others.

Beliefs and practices which divide humans (and/or other living things) into hierarchical classifications and reinforce the same distinctions, which often involve the labeling of some people as divine (or at least as having special lines of communication with divine beings or places), others as ordinary (or human), and others as evil (or subhuman), legitimating the repression of the latter.

Beliefs, including narrative cosmogonies and cosmologies, which are not empirically demonstrable but are strongly reinforced through education, reinforcement/reward, penalties for deviance, and other social means.

Sacred narratives (written or oral), which are often understood to have been given to people in some special/holy way, from some special/sacred place, for some special/holy purpose.

Spiritual leadership, religious specialists, and physical/spiritual healers, who teach and assist seekers and devotees, and sometimes resist or fight (either directly or by example, exhortation, and administration) perceived, spiritual adversaries.

Beliefs and practices that govern (and sometimes consecrate) the ways people use and transform their various habitats, and that sometimes tend strongly to reinforce or work against certain forms of socio-economic organization (namely, beliefs and practices that shape and influence their environments).

Beliefs and practices that draw directly and indirectly on natural symbols and events for practices related to some or many of the above characteristics (namely, beliefs and practices shaped or influenced by their environments, such as volcanoes).

For me, some of these characteristics are found in beliefs that we typically don't equate to 'religious', such as atheism and so forth...which made me wonder if on some levels, atheism is and in itself a 'religion'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rift Zone
I think that religion provides a frame of reference or orientation, particularly ethical, and an object of devotion, as such atheism does not qualify, although a lot of athiests have started to think about that too and present themselves rather as naturalists, humanists or scientists/scientistic (although that's based on a pretty unfortunate religion vs. science legacy and dichotomy which is accepted by partisans of both sides of the equation).
 
I also think that spirituality contra religion is a misnomer and consequence of a couple of modern attempts to divorce religious experience from religion as an institutional or organised phenomenon.

Some religious, particularly reformation/protestant evangelists, profess that thinking as much as atheists, its a curious thing but I guess with that particular frame of reference that those groups share it makes sense.
 
I know I see spirituality and religion to be distinctly different. Once can be extremely spiritual and have no religious framework...or be extremely religious, but not spiritual. Spirituality, while guided and often complimented by religion, seems like a very individualistic and personal construct; while, like you said [MENTION=4115]Lark[/MENTION], religion seems to be very institutional - but I question whether the more modern sense of religion is instutitionalized, verses the actual essence of it.

But what does make a religion, a religion? Many religions have different components and characteristics to them. If we consider religion to be a belief which is held by a group of people, does atheism not fall under that category?
 
I know I see spirituality and religion to be distinctly different. Once can be extremely spiritual and have no religious framework...or be extremely religious, but not spiritual. Spirituality, while guided and often complimented by religion, seems like a very individualistic and personal construct; while, like you said @Lark, religion seems to be very institutional - but I question whether the more modern sense of religion is instutitionalized, verses the actual essence of it.

But what does make a religion, a religion? Many religions have different components and characteristics to them. If we consider religion to be a belief which is held by a group of people, does atheism not fall under that category?

I think that religion has to be a frame of reference, particularly ethics or behavioural directives, and an object of devotion, by that standard I would say that some atheistic creedos could be considered religious but atheism itself could not, it is only a shadow or a contra not an object itself.

I did say that those are broad dichotomies and definitions which are accepted, I personally dont see spiritually and religion properly understood as being distinct fromone another and considering something institutional or organised isnt prejorative in any sense, you know?
 
What IS religion?
Wow, that IS a question.

For me, any definition beyond “a framework for spirituality” feels constrictive. But I can understand why the author of the book is going to want to pin down his terms and build from there. We all have to do that in some form or another, and for an assortment of reasons. I also appreciate the statement made about the things listed being “largely attributed to religion” since that leaves some room for variance. I feel that’s a good thing because all the members of the same religion won’t necessarily experience all the things listed, nor experience them in the same way.

Is atheism a religion?
To the extent that atheism attempts to answer the same general set of questions, it could be.