The entire point of my post was that I don't think anything can be implemented realistically. The fact that you asked me what you did in the first place meant that you missed the fundamental point that I was trying to communicate.
Regarding forum conflicts (please read)
- Thread starter Elis
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I know what you said, I just wanted to make sure that you had nothing to offer except criticism of other people trying to change the tone of the forum.
I agree that some discussions get hostile when they shouldn't, but really it takes two to tango, so if people don't like the tone or direction of the thread they don't have to participate. I would say that if anything is clearly inappropriate, such as obvious racism, then people need a warning but I think that's in place already. Otherwise, I think it's healthy to have even heated debates because sometimes people who can be narrow minded or set in their ways can learn, even when they don't admit it. Debate is good. If people get disrespectful it just reflects badly on them and taints their ideas so they are not taken as seriously (or at least I don't).
Criticism indeed. But if you cannot come up with something to counter the effect, then the criticism is valid.
Also, criticism is motivational. As I said, first you need the will. You need to define what you want. Then you need to think, to really think about how. Then you need further motivation for everyone to agree upon something, and to actually carry it out. It is a multifaceted, multistep process. Sometimes this process of change and ideas starts with a dare. It certainly doesn't start with a bunch of people doing the same thing over and over again, reaffirming the past.
We knew that there was no easy fix going into this thread.
Criticism without constructive ideas or feedback is destructive, and sets back the entire process.
How is it destructive? What factual evidence do you have to support that? And not only that but generally your criticism of me and my behavior?
I could give you any number of random ideas but the point is that it needs a greater framework in order to truly come alive.
For example, I could suggest the idea I had of implementing a message that drops down before somebody makes a post which would say, "Is that compassionate? Are you sure about your post?" as a way to make people stop for a bit and think before finalizing their decision to post.
If you have nothing to add to a prudent discussion about the way to fix a problem, how is it constructive to derail the discussion by saying that it probably can't be fixed because people won't follow through anyways?
Everyone agrees that the tone needs to change. I asked for your suggestions on how to get that done, but you chose to have a hissy fit instead.
So here's the situation. You have no constructive ideas for how to improve the forum, you just wanted to pop in to demoralize us all, by letting us know that there's probably nothing to be achieved anyways.
And not only that but generally your criticism of me and my behavior?
Point me in that direction. I don't think that I ever cared enough about you or your opinions to have criticized you?
This thread is literally the perfect place to drop your "number of random ideas". I like your idea of an "are you sure" message. It makes sense, and it contributed to the discussion, just now.
Overall, i don't think this forum is in a bad state at all anyway. Sure there are always silly situations and arguments that can be avoided, but really, i don't even think it's that bad compared to other places around the internet, which most of them, imo, are pretty much a waste of time to even read it's content.
[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]
I do think your post deserves some consideration.
Consider how you felt when you posted this
Where did this statement go from constructive to deconstructive? What were your emotions? Why did you feel that way? How can you change your views and understandings and yourself so that next time you find yourself in a similar situation you cannot help but approach it differently and in a more constructive way?
All of those questions change so much with each person, situation, and the moods of those involved that it is impossible to be anything but vague and overly general in establishing plan. I think we are left to trusting that each person will make efforts to finding a constructive path that works for them WHILE we make efforts to enable them on that path by not further aggravating and instead taking the time to be understanding.
I do think your post deserves some consideration.
To some degree I share in your concerns. Here most of us are already making statements that lead to further arguments. If we cannot do it here when all this is forefront in our minds when can we do it? I do not blame you for feeling demoralized if you do feel that way. I also think it is good you expressed those concerns so that we can all address them.
While I do not believe that there is a ‘plan’ that works for everyone I do think that everyone’s plan should start with ‘being aware’ or as was stated by the OP ‘being mindful’. This means taking a step back and taking a second look at what you are saying before you click send and asking yourself if this seems aggressive, insulting, and ‘how was I feeling when I wrote it’? You don’t have to put much thought in it and your feelings just enter into your words and get expressed upon everyone else and then everyone else does the same thing in reaction.
Consider how you felt when you posted this
Where did this statement go from constructive to deconstructive? What were your emotions? Why did you feel that way? How can you change your views and understandings and yourself so that next time you find yourself in a similar situation you cannot help but approach it differently and in a more constructive way?
All of those questions change so much with each person, situation, and the moods of those involved that it is impossible to be anything but vague and overly general in establishing plan. I think we are left to trusting that each person will make efforts to finding a constructive path that works for them WHILE we make efforts to enable them on that path by not further aggravating and instead taking the time to be understanding.
D
Deleted member 10171
This is very helpful and I was thinking along the same lines re: taking personal accountability for your own behaviour.
View attachment 24006
It's understandable to get angry every so often and to post a reactive response without thinking (I’m referring to the infantile personal insults that gets thrown about on this forum against other members). If there are people here who are genuinely not aware that they are exhibiting this kind of behaviour because of their inability to tolerate someone else saying something they don’t agree with (perhaps due to the intensity of their passion), I wonder if it would be a helpful suggestion to give them a prompt? In addition to STAYING ON TOPIC another gentle reminder could be to TAKE SOME TIME OUT. I've noticed that when someone takes the initiative to do this that in most cases it does change the momentum and hopefully allows for the discussion/debate to continue. So perhaps that's something I/we could actively try to do.
[MENTION=4950]Ellis[/MENTION] — thank you for taking the initiative to start this thread.
While we are at the question, why do people have to post scriptures in a special club? Why not have the others have their own special club and ask for it not to be here? I believe in equality. It belittles my mentality to have someone ask me not to quote scriptures, yet they copy and paste everything they can find against it. Put that in a box, too.
I feel like a part of something here, with friends. That would be a starter for why I come here. Hard to blend in some places.
I feel like a part of something here, with friends. That would be a starter for why I come here. Hard to blend in some places.
The forum will never change unless you witch hunt certain kinds of personalities and try to oust them from the community as a whole. Some people are naturally more prone to argue or be blunt or say things that people just plain don't like. Just because people are of one particular mind doesn't mean they cannot be a valid and valuable member of the community.
Instead of forcing people to self censor and water themselves down and walk on eggshells to make your feelings feel better, why not just put users who disrupt your ideal "tone" of the forum on ignore or avoid certain kinds of threads that are going to make you uncomfortable? What right does anyone have trying to turn the place into a wishy washy feelings fest where we all pat each other on the back?
There are blogs, there's emotional support and advice, there's the spirituality sub and other areas where people can post their concerns. If you start a thread and you want a specific tone use the PAX prefix and outline in your OP precisely the direction that you want it to go. Good luck enforcing it though. The forum is organic and thrives because we have a variety of personalities, discussions and viewpoints.
Honestly, I would roll my eyes and feel annoyed if every time I said something I had to be asked if I was being compassionate or nice or thoughtful. I am sorry, but I genuinely do not care how other people feel about what I say because it's honest and true to ME even if it doesn't make YOU feel good. I find it pointless to self censor to that degree because I am not responsible for your emotions, you are.
If you think that someone is being disruptive, harmful, malicious, offensive use the report button and let the admins take care of it.
Speaking of, we probably need more moderators.
Instead of forcing people to self censor and water themselves down and walk on eggshells to make your feelings feel better, why not just put users who disrupt your ideal "tone" of the forum on ignore or avoid certain kinds of threads that are going to make you uncomfortable? What right does anyone have trying to turn the place into a wishy washy feelings fest where we all pat each other on the back?
There are blogs, there's emotional support and advice, there's the spirituality sub and other areas where people can post their concerns. If you start a thread and you want a specific tone use the PAX prefix and outline in your OP precisely the direction that you want it to go. Good luck enforcing it though. The forum is organic and thrives because we have a variety of personalities, discussions and viewpoints.
Honestly, I would roll my eyes and feel annoyed if every time I said something I had to be asked if I was being compassionate or nice or thoughtful. I am sorry, but I genuinely do not care how other people feel about what I say because it's honest and true to ME even if it doesn't make YOU feel good. I find it pointless to self censor to that degree because I am not responsible for your emotions, you are.
If you think that someone is being disruptive, harmful, malicious, offensive use the report button and let the admins take care of it.
Speaking of, we probably need more moderators.
One of the reasons I have stayed to comment on this forum is because I think of it as being more controlled and reasonable. In short discussions generally do not devolve into "I hope you die x person" etc. Thats not to say that I think there are not a few people here where it can be suggested they seek professional help realistically. Just that I think for the most part people hold it together pretty well here where other forums clearly do not.
Having said that, people are people and internet anonymity will always be a factor that cant be removed.
Having said that, people are people and internet anonymity will always be a factor that cant be removed.
How would you feel if I started posting Satanic bible quotes in relation to bible quotes?
Not that it should matter to anyone here but honestly and truly if I start seeing a bunch of scripture posts or any other religious post I more than likely will put that person on ignore permanently. Still if people want to do that I suppose it freedom of speech. Just like it would be my freedom to constantly point out the fallacies of all religious thinking
What I find comical about this is that if a lot of people on the forum now had been on it a few years ago they'd probably have a mental breakdown. That infraction bin was full all the time. There were forum members telling others to slit their wrists in bathtubs, recording youtube videos and posting them publicly about sexually defiling a retired admin, there were rants and raves and attacks and all kinds of volatility on the forum that I think most people here would not believe. There were witch hunts, members who openly hated each other and there was so much personal drama I wouldn't even know where to begin to tell it.
INFJs is a nice little nook I have hung around on for since 2009 and I love this place and some of the people here but I think anyone who wants to change the tone or the content of the forum needs to realize that it's just... not happening.
INFJs is a nice little nook I have hung around on for since 2009 and I love this place and some of the people here but I think anyone who wants to change the tone or the content of the forum needs to realize that it's just... not happening.
I think it depends on the context that the bible quotes were shared to begin with. Personally I am an atheist and do not understand adhering to the Bible, but for people who have grown up in faith or who have converted and found peace and joy with it, the bible is a huge frame of reference and guiding light for them. I disagree with more of the fundamentalist aspects of the Bible (old testament) but I can't fault someone for trying to walk the path that Jesus set out for them, though I do think Jesus would feel kind of ashamed of people if they used their faith to cast down and condemn other people.
I don't feel any personal responsibility to talk people out of their belief system. It would be as bizarre for me to do that as someone try to convert me to Islam or Christianity when I do not believe in a higher power at all. It is just not in my personal frame of reference.
You can't reason someone out of a belief that they didn't reason themselves into. Faith is an emotional/psychological thing, not a logical thing, but that doesn't really make it bad I don't think. Even if I favour logic.
@SpecialEdition
I'm not sure if you're referring to my original post, but if so I think you're either making a straw man or just misinterpreting it. I'm not trying to enforce anything to anyone. One of the points I tried to make was how we are sometimes unnecessarily forceful in how we argue. I'm not saying don't do A, or that you shouldn't do B. My whole point was to make an open statement to raise awareness that when we argue we set a tone. I don't say that it is right, nor that it is wrong to do so. I just think that we forget ourselves sometimes.
edit: and if you don't like it, by all means ignore it.
I'm not sure if you're referring to my original post, but if so I think you're either making a straw man or just misinterpreting it. I'm not trying to enforce anything to anyone. One of the points I tried to make was how we are sometimes unnecessarily forceful in how we argue. I'm not saying don't do A, or that you shouldn't do B. My whole point was to make an open statement to raise awareness that when we argue we set a tone. I don't say that it is right, nor that it is wrong to do so. I just think that we forget ourselves sometimes.
edit: and if you don't like it, by all means ignore it.