Pull this apart for me?

[jn56uytrx]

Invitation to play the "type me" game. Play if you like. I truly will not mind if no one plays. Please don't feel obligated. Just thought I would throw this out there and see what comes back.

I am wondering about my infjness. In part due to the places where I feel dissonance with the culture here.

I notice I am not as engaged by the type of playfulness that I observe frequently occurs here. Often observing it is funny for me, but the humor here also tends to reflect an insider joke nature. I would be able and willing to engage in it if I were committed to fitting in, but, for me, I think it would be more a means to an end rather than enjoying it for it's own sake. Engaging in it would be work and an effort for me. I enjoy a brief engagement with a clever and humorous thought, but large amounts of energy to engaging in back-and-forth banter rarely feels rewarding for its own sake to me.

Another aspect of interaction I observe here that I tend not to be as into is the..."master of my knowledge base" style. I can pull together a supported case for my perspective or how I see things, but it's often an effort I engage in to try to match the culture of the environment and to be heard when that kind of presentation is expected. Even when I can pull off a supported argument, I doubt I come off as an expert. I have occasionally been called wise or insightful, but I don't think I come across as having expert knowledge.

I do have the capacity to go into deep exploration of how I see the world and how others see it. That is one of the places in life I feel the greatest joy, when someone will play with me. That's how it feels to me when that type of conversation is happening--play. It feels like this collaborative effort of mapping the world together through shared perspectives. It happens for me very rarely these days and I long for more of it.

I think one of the most satisfying things in the world for me is when I think I have been able to map a little corner of the world. I read something once, I think it was about quantum physics, that described the research as being in a dark house and this person's job was to map one room. They worked in the dark feeling around, observing, making guesses about the nature of things until they were able to illuminate one small corner of things. The reality of things is there. The mission, the passion, is in discovering it and shedding light on it.

I am good at reading people. I hear the stories underneath the words people say. When I hold the mirror of my perception up to people, I frequently get the feedback that I saw something correctly in them that they had not yet seen in themselves. I also have an ability to know when people are not going to be receptive to seeing that reflection, but I see evidence in others reactions in interacting with the person that support my perceptions being on point. I look for clues in body language and words, and other things I don't even think I would know how to name. I know things I don't have words or skill to describe, but I get feedback that lets me know I saw something accurately.

At work, I will seek input on cases that are challenging and colleagues will answer in vague and basic ways that feel insulting to me. I feel bewildered at the elementary level they are answering. In one case consultation I did eventually ask, "was there something in the way I asked my question that led you to believe I didn't already know this?" At times when people have been willing to play with me (in mapping the world), they drop out quickly and say, "that is a little too deep for me." It's disappointing, but I appreciate the honesty (it's usually been with people close to me who feel comfortable being vulnerable with me). These experiences leave me questioning whether maybe the reason people talk down to me isn't because I come across to them as an idiot who doesn't already know the basic stuff they're spouting at me, but rather that maybe I have asked something they don't know how to answer at the level I am asking and instead they just tell me what they know. That would be fair given that I am asking them because I don't know the deeper answer either.

I do like structure. More in my thinking than in the concrete world, though if someone else can maintain order and cleanliness in the concrete world for me, I like it. I am able to schedule my time well and I get paperwork done accurately and on time. I like knowing what the expectations are in a situation. I like building frameworks within which to operate from as I explore. Often, I am asking people questions to help me suss out guiding principles.

What functions do these tendencies indicate? I have thought NiFeTiSe, but I wonder? Given my lack of resonance in many ways with the culture on this forum, it leaves me thinking maybe my type is something else I haven't given enough consideration to yet? Maybe it is NiFe, but I am out of balance and leaning too much on nonondominant functions? Or maybe the dissonance I feel here is due to other factors?

FYI, I have previously thought I was Infp and have considered isfj. I also have wondered if I might actually be a very shy extrovert? I read an article wyote posted here recently on infp/infj/isfj. I related most to infj and isfj, but I think lists of qualities can be hard sometimes because we can, or want to, relate to many qualities. I think my earlier resonance with infp had to do with my life circumstances and who I wanted to be at that time than my actual functions. Could it be the same for infj?

Thought maybe better to start with a self description bubbling up from my core and see what impression people have of the functions they reveal and see if it guides me toward anything new.

 

[Wyote]

INFJ probably, with isfj tendencies due to stress maybe? Though I wouldn't rule out isfj. They can be remarkably similar, a key difference is that isfjs are actually more utilitarian in their use of Fe probably, whereas infjs are kind of potato Fe users.

 

[jn56uytrx]

INFJ probably, with isfj tendencies due to stress maybe? Though I wouldn't rule out isfj. They can be remarkably similar, a key difference is that isfjs are actually more utilitarian in their use of Fe probably, whereas infjs are kind of potato Fe users.

I can buy that. Thanks for the feedback.

I genuinely laughed at the expression "potato Fe." Thanks for the giggle. I have never heard that expression before. What does it mean?

 

[Wyote]

What does it mean?

When you call something potato, it is sort of like an endearing thing but also utterly incapable.
Basically, I'm saying INFJs try to be Fe users, but they kind of suck at it because they are overloaded with Ni most of the time.
An ISFJ is a bit better at Fe because they are overloaded with Si, which gives them a better grounding in the real world.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Invitation to play the "type me" game. Play if you like. I truly will not mind if no one plays. Please don't feel obligated. Just thought I would throw this out there and see what comes back.

I am wondering about my infjness. In part due to the places where I feel dissonance with the culture here.

I notice I am not as engaged by the type of playfulness that I observe frequently occurs here. Often observing it is funny for me, but the humor here also tends to reflect an insider joke nature. I would be able and willing to engage in it if I were committed to fitting in, but, for me, I think it would be more a means to an end rather than enjoying it for it's own sake. Engaging in it would be work and an effort for me. I enjoy a brief engagement with a clever and humorous thought, but large amounts of energy to engaging in back-and-forth banter rarely feels rewarding for its own sake to me.

Another aspect of interaction I observe here that I tend not to be as into is the..."master of my knowledge base" style. I can pull together a supported case for my perspective or how I see things, but it's often an effort I engage in to try to match the culture of the environment and to be heard when that kind of presentation is expected. Even when I can pull off a supported argument, I doubt I come off as an expert. I have occasionally been called wise or insightful, but I don't think I come across as having expert knowledge.

I do have the capacity to go into deep exploration of how I see the world and how others see it. That is one of the places in life I feel the greatest joy, when someone will play with me. That's how it feels to me when that type of conversation is happening--play. It feels like this collaborative effort of mapping the world together through shared perspectives. It happens for me very rarely these days and I long for more of it.

I think one of the most satisfying things in the world for me is when I think I have been able to map a little corner of the world. I read something once, I think it was about quantum physics, that described the research as being in a dark house and this person's job was to map one room. They worked in the dark feeling around, observing, making guesses about the nature of things until they were able to illuminate one small corner of things. The reality of things is there. The mission, the passion, is in discovering it and shedding light on it.

I am good at reading people. I hear the stories underneath the words people say. When I hold the mirror of my perception up to people, I frequently get the feedback that I saw something correctly in them that they had not yet seen in themselves. I also have an ability to know when people are not going to be receptive to seeing that reflection, but I see evidence in others reactions in interacting with the person that support my perceptions being on point. I look for clues in body language and words, and other things I don't even think I would know how to name. I know things I don't have words or skill to describe, but I get feedback that lets me know I saw something accurately.

At work, I will seek input on cases that are challenging and colleagues will answer in vague and basic ways that feel insulting to me. I feel bewildered at the elementary level they are answering. In one case consultation I did eventually ask, "was there something in the way I asked my question that led you to believe I didn't already know this?" At times when people have been willing to play with me (in mapping the world), they drop out quickly and say, "that is a little too deep for me." It's disappointing, but I appreciate the honesty (it's usually been with people close to me who feel comfortable being vulnerable with me). These experiences leave me questioning whether maybe the reason people talk down to me isn't because I come across to them as an idiot who doesn't already know the basic stuff they're spouting at me, but rather that maybe I have asked something they don't know how to answer at the level I am asking and instead they just tell me what they know. That would be fair given that I am asking them because I don't know the deeper answer either.

I do like structure. More in my thinking than in the concrete world, though if someone else can maintain order and cleanliness in the concrete world for me, I like it. I am able to schedule my time well and I get paperwork done accurately and on time. I like knowing what the expectations are in a situation. I like building frameworks within which to operate from as I explore. Often, I am asking people questions to help me suss out guiding principles.

What functions do these tendencies indicate? I have thought NiFeTiSe, but I wonder? Given my lack of resonance in many ways with the culture on this forum, it leaves me thinking maybe my type is something else I haven't given enough consideration to yet? Maybe it is NiFe, but I am out of balance and leaning too much on nonondominant functions? Or maybe the dissonance I feel here is due to other factors?

FYI, I have previously thought I was Infp and have considered isfj. I also have wondered if I might actually be a very shy extrovert? I read an article wyote posted here recently on infp/infj/isfj. I related most to infj and isfj, but I think lists of qualities can be hard sometimes because we can, or want to, relate to many qualities. I think my earlier resonance with infp had to do with my life circumstances and who I wanted to be at that time than my actual functions. Could it be the same for infj?

Thought maybe better to start with a self description bubbling up from my core and see what impression people have of the functions they reveal and see if it guides me toward anything new.

Thanks for this, I found it an interesting read.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 'culture here' with regard to typing yourself. The 'inside jokes', as you call it, was something which I noticed early on, too. I came here basically craving deep discussion and it frustrated me somewhat that members would seem only to be interested in maintaining the most superficial threads (e.g. What are you listening to? and things of that ilk). I'm very aware of offending people here, but I think it might be helpful to you for me to be honest here. However, that kind of forum activity is not really indicative of INFJs in general, but rather of members who have been here a while and don't necessarily have the time or energy to go deep all the time. In actuality, the lightness and playfulness tends to be done with the understanding that the members are 'deep thinkers', because they've tended to do it elsewhere.

As a European, I can also say that for me, the very effusive demonstrations of affection for members (love hearts, Teddy bears, &c.) was a bit jarring, too, but this is just a cultural thing. I wouldn't read into it too much and I don't think there's anything which should suggest 'this is how INFJs behave when they get together'.

Personally you do sound INFJ to me, but don't take my word for it.

 

[Wyote]

In actuality, the lightness and playfulness tends to be done with the understanding that the members are 'deep thinkers', because they've tended to do it elsewhere.

Or here, for a decade lol

 

[jn56uytrx]

In actuality, the lightness and playfulness tends to be done with the understanding that the members are 'deep thinkers', because they've tended to do it elsewhere

I had never considered that and it actually makes a ton of sense to me. Thanks for the perspective on both the style of interaction here and on my type.

 

[jn56uytrx]

When you call something potato, it is sort of like an endearing thing but also utterly incapable.
Basically, I'm saying INFJs try to be Fe users, but they kind of suck at it because they are overloaded with Ni most of the time.
An ISFJ is a bit better at Fe because they are overloaded with Si, which gives them a better grounding in the real world.

Got it!

 

[just me]

I think one of the most satisfying things in the world for me is when I think I have been able to map a little corner of the world. I read something once, I think it was about quantum physics, that described the research as being in a dark house and this person's job was to map one room. They worked in the dark feeling around, observing, making guesses about the nature of things until they were able to illuminate one small corner of things. The reality of things is there. The mission, the passion, is in discovering it and shedding light on it.

First, It is good hearing from you. Hope all is well. A voice from the past...

I have some questions, if you feel like painting the room for me. Had you started the room's mapping, it must have had light just from your presence. I have problems sometimes sharing what I see, or understand, or feel. It takes energy from me and a lot of time. Yet, I take it in as much as I can handle. Some rooms have a light forced on them, so I feel unwanted or maybe like leaving. I sometimes see darkness in the forced light of things, but it does not take away from the light of others there. Something or someone just wants their light to be the only one. You want to learn and feel things as they are, I feel. Yet, how do you treat that dismal feeling when someone wishes to hide the light of others?

If we shed light on things, we may have to better help the blind. We may have to reach deeper into our thoughts to help those see who do not want to see, although we sometimes feel we should try to help share those things with them.

I'll keep this short, but are you there? Reflections can be truths, though maybe they do not need to be.

 

[jn56uytrx]

First, It is good hearing from you. Hope all is well. A voice from the past...

I have some questions, if you feel like painting the room for me. Had you started the room's mapping, it must have had light just from your presence. I have problems sometimes sharing what I see, or understand, or feel. It takes energy from me and a lot of time. Yet, I take it in as much as I can handle. Some rooms have a light forced on them, so I feel unwanted or maybe like leaving. I sometimes see darkness in the forced light of things, but it does not take away from the light of others there. Something or someone just wants their light to be the only one. You want to learn and feel things as they are, I feel. Yet, how do you treat that dismal feeling when someone wishes to hide the light of others?

If we shed light on things, we may have to better help the blind. We may have to reach deeper into our thoughts to help those see who do not want to see, although we sometimes feel we should try to help share those things with them.

I'll keep this short, but are you there? Reflections can be truths, though maybe they do not need to be.

This lit up my brain! First, I will acknowledge, it may be too deep for me. Yet, I still want to play. Thank you for playing!

Deep breath as I dive in.

I will start at the end. I suspect this reflection is of your truth, and I found myself seeing things in the beams your light illuminated, but maybe not what you intended me to notice. In the shadows, I squinted to make out the shapes and wanted to see better. In reflecting on your sharing, I experienced an aspect of my truth. I am unsure why you joined me, but I enjoy having your light in this room.

As I felt here, you shed light, but I still felt a little blind. Is that it? We need to talk, hold a hand and guide, ask questions about what others see in the light before we can share the experience of what has been illuminated? Otherwise, we are just two people standing in a little bit of light and shadow, but feeling in very separate spaces?

How do I treat that dismal feeling when someone wishes to hide the light of others? I feel the dismalness of it when I feel alone in the shadow; when I feel powerless and unheard. I reach for other hands in the dark for comfort and to comfort. I try to shine and encourage others to shine. I feel anger at the selfishness of the source of light and the darkness I and others may feel in the shadow of the forced light. I become a forced light myself in my righteous indignation at the darkness resulting from the forced light. If my own light becomes bright enough I might even begin to spin around in the light I bring, like a princess at a ball, enjoying the light; not realizing in the moment the light I am so enjoying may have begun to create forced darkness for others that I am oblivious to the dismalness of. I feel shame when I reenter the room later and see all the shapes and shades, lights and contours differently as new formations of light have moved into and around the room, and realize I used the room and the forced light I created for my own purposes as much as anyone else I may have resented had done. And yet, I suspect, the same sort of dance of light and shadows will happen all over again, as it always does and always has, and I will inevitably step into my role holding both light and dark again and again. I accept that, I am embarrassed by that, and for that I am sorry.

I like the light you brought to this room. Thank you for taking the energy and for trying to show me what you saw. I suspect I saw me, but I hope I saw a little of you, too.

 

[just me]

I become a forced light myself in my righteous indignation at the darkness resulting from the forced light.

It interests me you are aware that some light can bring darkness. I feel we should never feel badly enjoying our light. If our light is helping others to see, how else would I have found this room? We have not taken hands and shared with each other, which I suspect would help us all to see better. Your truth draws others to you, so there is no condemnation or shame. Yet, we wonder what we would share with the world if given the chance(s).

Distractions keep me from being more involved here, and I feel much older with less humor. I do not feel that way now. Sharing a precious gift can be difficult at times. We all must create things for our own purposes. I am thankful for your room and your truth. Please spin around at will with your light, as I rather enjoy it. This required little energy, if any. May I sit in your room awhile? I may learn more about myself. I must ask, why do you feel it your role holding both light and dark again and again? It almost describes my happiness within.

 

[jn56uytrx]

May I sit in your room awhile?

Absolutely! I cherish your company whether we just sit in space together quietly for awhile or explore a bit together.

I must ask, why do you feel it your role holding both light and dark again and again?

I think it is the nature of things. I accept that nature. I find value in both. I am also vulnerable to pressure both internal and external to value light over dark, and inevitably disown dark parts of me as a result. All of this stated as if it is a duality, when, I believe, in reality, it is all part of a whole, all valuable. It is that recurring tendency to break the whole apart and judge the pieces good or bad that I see myself returning to over and over. I think I may be most healthy and most "myself" when I am at those liminal moments when I see and experience the wholeness of it all without judgement. Then it's gone again.

 

[Ginny]

My perspective may be a little different:

Without light, we wouldn't know darkness. And with a light too bright, we might as well be blind in darkness. Some people shine a light on their own which is so bright that it can be shared with others, not to snuff out, cover or overpower their light, but to make it brighter. Because what is light but energy?

Yes, some light is so bright that it draws all the attention, but often this kind of light isn't the natural flame inside each of us but a lightbulb that is too bright for the fire to light the way. But when you only notice light, you cannot tell the difference until you get close enough to see that it is a contained glow inside a container and not an open flame. You cannot join with it or light the glow to turn it into fire. Beside that, your own light will seem smaller, but it is not, it just hasn't been artificially brightened - it is real, vulnerable and most of the time unheard.

The smaller, but real flames have an advantage. They know the darkness and traverse in it, get to know it, and their own light is lighting the way, their way. They don't have much to share, but sharing still makes their light shine a little brighter when joining another.
I am kind of comfortable in the dark. My light guides me in unexpected directions, perhaps unwanted directions too. But I am also trusting my light and the darkness to show me the way, as it is my only true guide, the light that is just bright enough to let me see where I am in the moment, sometimes flaring up a little, and sometimes being dangerously low, but it is the only light that I can trust will guide me true. In the darkness, you just sometimes see your own light best.

Some people find they cannot trust their own light to guide them and instead, like moths, seek out others that make their flame brighter, the brighter the better. But how can you know it's not just a blinding lightbulb? Moreover, how can you know for yourself if you shine a bright light, or distinguish whether it is a flame or a lightbulb? This is as far as I know to go right now.

 

[just me]

Some people find they cannot trust their own light to guide them and instead, like moths, seek out others that make their flame brighter, the brighter the better. But how can you know it's not just a blinding lightbulb? Moreover, how can you know for yourself if you shine a bright light, or distinguish whether it is a flame or a lightbulb? This is as far as I know to go right now.

I read this and think of a small campfire, with brilliant flames of blue and orange flickering its intensity here and there. I awakened this morning warm inside. It is this warmth that tells me of the light. Your light is warmth.

I feel we cannot truly appreciate the light without diving into the darkness. I would climb mountains and cross oceans to talk with someone that does not judge the light and the dark....if I had the means to. I love brilliance and understanding, and those whose words share such warmth. It is part of me and I will not extinguish the fire it builds in my heart and mind.

There are too many analogies using light and darkness, though it is fine with me. One can have at their disposal all the light in the world, though they need warmth to truly survive. I find meaning and warmth here, though I must venture into the day and come back later. Thank you all for allowing me to feel like myself for awhile. I must make my room much larger now.

In the darkness, I began learning
In the light, I began to see
The learning will always be part of me

 

[JennyDaniella]

Idk why but every time I see this title, all I think about is pulled-pork BBQ sandwiches....

I’m such a fat weirdo.

But anyways, you seem like an INFJ. Just don’t over-think it too much.

MBTI is not completely fool-proof in identifying you when it comes to types, take it lightly. Think more of it as a blueprint so to speak. Every INFJ here fits the criteria but they have their own unique traits.

 

[just me]

Idk why but every time I see this title, all I think about is pulled-pork BBQ sandwiches....

Yum. May as well add french fries. All the while, I feel there is a woman reading and opening doors.

 

[Asa]

potato

--------------

@tovlo - Don't base your type on how other people of that supposed type behave. Everyone has outside influences that warp their behaviors from "true type".
This forum is also a bit of a clique, where people who have been here for a long time do behave a certain way and share inside jokes. (I realize you've been here longer than I... just... I guess... backing up your claim?)

It may help to look up some videos on MBTI and cognitive function, and also read how the cognitive functions work. Start from the base.

Whatever your type, you're awesome. I will refer to you as INFJ unless you decide you identify as something else.

 

[Wyote]

--------------

@tovlo - Don't base your type on how other people of that supposed type behave. Everyone has outside influences that warp their behaviors from "true type".
This forum is also a bit of a clique, where people who have been here for a long time do behave a certain way and share inside jokes. (I realize you've been here longer than I... just... I guess... backing up your claim?)

It may help to look up some videos on MBTI and cognitive function, and also read how the cognitive functions work. Start from the base.

Whatever your type, you're awesome. I will refer to you as INFJ unless you decide you identify as something else.

I have tried to actively dismantle this behavior, but it persists regardless. It is a human eventuality to form cliques.
Humans are potatoes like that.

 

[John K]

Reading through the content of this thread, you seem to be using lots of Ni @tovlo. Assuming 'I' from how you describe yourself that gives INxJ. How would you feel about INTJ in contrast to INFJ?

This link is to a post I made a week after joining the forum in the Spring.

Impressions - INFJ Forum a week in. Don’t usually do this sort of thing outside my head – if feels a bit like being inside out. Hope it doesn’t come across the wrong way.

View attachment 42120

tbh I felt a bit like I'd walked into a party where everyone knew each other, but I knew no-one, and I didn't speak their language very well. I felt like I was intruding all the time if I joined in threads that were well under way, with coversations running between people who seemed to be old friends. Being nosy, though, I explored quite a bit for a while and only made a few posts to start off with - and found most people very friendly and supportive. I concentrated on a smallish number of threads where I felt comfortable and soon felt at home. I will confess though that to some extent I do the same in the Forum as I do in any social setting irl - I gravitate to a fairly small set of people I already know and tend to stick to them. It's always taken me ages to get to know new folk to the point where I am comfortable and I find it very stressful. It's a lot easier here because you can dip in and come back to it later in a way you can't at a social gathering - we can get to know folk to some extent from their posts as well before we actually contact them. But I think we still behave like typical introverts in this regard, even though INFJs are also fascinated by other people at the same time.

It's worth pointing out that there is a steady stream of new people joining and becoming active, while some of the existing members either disappear or go quieter for a while. That means that the character of the Forum does tend to change over time, even in the relatively short time since I joined - for example 8 months ago there was a lot of Ne in the threads from some very active INTP members, but there is less of this now.

 

[jn56uytrx]

My perspective may be a little different:

Without light, we wouldn't know darkness. And with a light too bright, we might as well be blind in darkness. Some people shine a light on their own which is so bright that it can be shared with others, not to snuff out, cover or overpower their light, but to make it brighter. Because what is light but energy?

Yes, some light is so bright that it draws all the attention, but often this kind of light isn't the natural flame inside each of us but a lightbulb that is too bright for the fire to light the way. But when you only notice light, you cannot tell the difference until you get close enough to see that it is a contained glow inside a container and not an open flame. You cannot join with it or light the glow to turn it into fire. Beside that, your own light will seem smaller, but it is not, it just hasn't been artificially brightened - it is real, vulnerable and most of the time unheard.

The smaller, but real flames have an advantage. They know the darkness and traverse in it, get to know it, and their own light is lighting the way, their way. They don't have much to share, but sharing still makes their light shine a little brighter when joining another.
I am kind of comfortable in the dark. My light guides me in unexpected directions, perhaps unwanted directions too. But I am also trusting my light and the darkness to show me the way, as it is my only true guide, the light that is just bright enough to let me see where I am in the moment, sometimes flaring up a little, and sometimes being dangerously low, but it is the only light that I can trust will guide me true. In the darkness, you just sometimes see your own light best.

Some people find they cannot trust their own light to guide them and instead, like moths, seek out others that make their flame brighter, the brighter the better. But how can you know it's not just a blinding lightbulb? Moreover, how can you know for yourself if you shine a bright light, or distinguish whether it is a flame or a lightbulb? This is as far as I know to go right now.

I was traveling with my son and two of his friends yesterday bringing them back home for winter break. They were telling a story of a peer that reminded me a little of your post here. Or maybe more accurately, some of your imagery, prompted further reflection of my own on that little inner flame vs the more unnatural light we sometimes put into the world. As I listened to the experience of my son and his friends with this peer, I realized they disliked him because the light he sent out was perceived to be not his genuine light, not that honest warmth of who we are, but a harsh defensive light that was not flattering to him and, in this case, caused those around him discomfort and injury, leading them to avoid him. I felt compassion as I listened, for my son and his peers and the unpleasantness of being in that presence, but also for the young man others found so unpleasant. As I listened, I heard underneath how that "unnatural" light formed through this young man's experience and how desperately he was trying to join his light to others, but how the intensity of the light combined with defensiveness leading to its use as a weapon was both at the same time meeting exactly the goal it was probably intended to serve, keep him protected by keeping others away from a more vulnerable and fragile flame within, and thwarting a deeper goal to connect that fragile flame safely with others'.

Such is the path of us all, to greater or lesser degree, sometimes in life, I think.