[PUG] - Privacy, Security, National Intelligence & Security (from Snowden's NSA leaks) | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

[PUG] Privacy, Security, National Intelligence & Security (from Snowden's NSA leaks)

Let's attempt to stay on topic

Home » Blog » The NSA/DEA Team-Up vs. Enemies Foreign and Domestic




The NSA/DEA Team-Up vs. Enemies Foreign and Domestic

By Brian Hayden Pascal on August 8, 2013 at 11:19 pm



The latest chapter in the ongoing tale of NSA overreach may be the most troubling one yet. Reuters has revealed that NSA has been sharing information with a secret group within DEA to help them launch criminal investigations against American citizens, and apparently the IRS has been in on the game as well. Furthermore, law enforcement officers involved in these cases were instructed to conceal the use of these NSA information sources to both prosecutors and courts.
This week’s revelations expose an ongoing subversion of the tools of national defense for the purpose of domestic law enforcement. These actions strike closer to home than any of the previously-uncovered NSA programs. While the individual mechanics may not be as stunning as the headlines suggest, taken in the aggregate they highlight two specific points: 1) the technology we use to hunt terrorists is so flexible and powerful that other federal agencies are “clamoring” for it, regardless of whether it is the right tool for the job, and 2) by its nature, NSA technology allows for a greater bifurcation between investigation and prosecution than ever before.
Technology is nothing but purpose, systematized.
"There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
–Commander William Adama, “Water,” Battlestar Galactica (2005).​
It is hardly surprising that NSA shares information with other agencies. Despite their questionable effectiveness, this is the rationale behind the Department of Homeland Security’s “fusion centers.” It even makes a kind of logical sense: if the processing of sufficiently detailed information can root out one kind of networked wrongdoing (terrorism), then why can’t it be used to solve other, more conventional forms of crime, especially those as network-dependent as the drug trade?
From a purely technocratic perspective, the division between “international terrorism” and “conventional crime” is arbitrary; however, if one believes in the rule of law, and that Americans possess certain, Constitutionally-protected civil liberties that do not extend to citizens of foreign nations, then the distinction is essential.
As we have learned over the last two months, NSA has access to vastly powerful surveillance technology, all of which was created to acquire signals-based intelligence in the service of national security. As a rule, national security-oriented signals intelligence is a dirty game. It has few set rules, no referees, deep asymmetries between the sides, and, at bottom, many of the players involved are constantly searching for advantages over their enemies. At minimum, it seems fair to believe that the various NSA engineers and contractors built their systems to operate on this sort of field.
Compared to the brutal Australian football of national security, domestic law enforcement is a downright genteel game of tennis. We have impartial judges, well-established rules, systems of appeals, and an ironclad, Constitutional baseline limiting the actions that the government is allowed to take. Sure, police would be able to catch more criminals if they could enter homes without warrants, but we (by way of the Fourth Amendment) intentionally make their lives more difficult to protect our essential security from government intrusion.
NSA tools have no place in this latter, more delicate context. They are too powerful. They were designed for use in far less confining environments. They sweep in nearly all information by default, and the relatively spare restrictions they places upon users only appear at the analysis phase. This is a far cry from a system built upon warrants, chains of evidence, suppression hearings, and the exclusionary rule. It’s an M1A2 Abrams tank dropped into a carnival game of bumper cars. Not only does it not fit under the tent, but it also has the potential to knock over all of the carefully-constructed barriers that we use to keep ourselves safe.
Parallel construction may not be new, but NSA technology makes it much, much worse.

Arguably the single most controversial aspect of that initial Reuters report was its disclosure of the practice of “parallel construction.” Per the article, agents were instructed to hide the involvement of the Special Operations Division (the unit that distributes information acquired from national security sources) from “investigative reports, affidavits, discussions with prosecutors and courtroom testimony.” Furthermore, agents were instructed to use “normal investigative techniques to recreate the information provided by SOD.”
As troubling as this practice appears–and make no mistake, it is without question disturbing to think of law enforcement officers being told to conceal information from the judicial system–it is not exactly a new one. There has never been a one-to-one mapping between investigation and prosecution. While the Brady Rule requires that the prosecution disclose exculpatory evidence to the defense, it has never been taken to mean that police or prosecutors must provide details on every aspect of their investigations. And traffic stops,both legitimate and pretextual, have long served as a basis for further investigation of suspects.
In theory, the balance to this information asymmetry comes from the adversarial structure of our justice system. The prosecution must prove the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, using a coherent, convincing chain of evidence. The defense has a variety of tools at their disposal to keep the prosecution (and in turn the police) honest.
In practice, NSA’s tools have the power to fundamentally alter this power dynamic. Large-scale data analysis is often described as “connecting the dots,” but, given enough data points on a large enough piece of paper, it is possible to draw almost any picture one would like.
Put another way, we all break the law constantly. Until recently, the difficulty of investigation meant that obscurity alone could insulate us from police overreach. This is no longer the case. Modern technology such as that employed by NSA makes the process of “parallel construction” almost trivially easy, which in turn dramatically expands the investigatory powers of the police.
In the end, it’s the lying that matters most.

One last thing: somewhere along the way, someone decided that the investigative utility that federal agencies can derive from information gathered by NSA and other national security-oriented sources is both too important and too legally tenuous to risk it being challenged in court. Law enforcement, from federal agencies all the way down to the local police force, is supposed to be the mechanism by which society protects itself. When agents of that protection are instructed to lie to circumvent the very civil liberties that our society is built upon, then it raises very uncomfortable questions about what we are trying to protect in the first place.
Setting aside sociopathy and entertainment, we only ever lie when the cost of telling the truth is higher than we are willing to pay. Why else would we undertake the cognitive, moral, ethical, logistical, and social burdens that come with lying? When it comes to counterterrorism, NSA, and the modern American national security apparatus in general, many of our leaders and government agencies operate as if the cost of truth is very high indeed, on almost every occasion. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper performed a similar analysis when he chose to give a “least untruthful” answer to Senator Ron Wyden on the subject of mass data collection. The Central Intelligence Agency did the same when it denied the existence of a drone program. And now we learn that DEA hides the truth of its investigations as part of conventional, every-day law enforcement.
This constant lying is absolutely toxic to a representative democracy. Power in a system like ours is supposed derive from the collective will of the people, and lying forces us to base our societal decisionmaking upon false premises. It subverts our collective will and risks the trust that is the fuel of our society.
.
 
It's no wonder Snowden went to the only other country in the world besides China, maybe the only, who would stand up to us. He probably would have been accidentally shot by ex-military or involved in a bizarre car accident with people at the Post getting raided and thrown in prison too before any of the rest came out. Shuuuuuuuuuurrrrre come home to a fair trial so we can talk about this reasonably.

Their favorite databases have been copied and moved by now, with like 20 people knowing about it -- and their real favorites with even less people.

Starting to wonder who it was that gave the bad info on Snowden's whereabouts with Bolivar's plane.
 
Last edited:
The remainder of the 9-part video on William Cooper, the multi-post excerpt from "Silent Weapons for a Quiet War", and the information about Israeli government spying, were merged into another thread, starting here as they take up a lot of space without any direct contribution to the thread topic.
 
Why Was Glenn Greenwald’s Partner Detained?

By Andrew Rosenthal NYT editor's page blog August 19 2013
Britain’s Labour Party has called for an urgent investigation into whether security officials at Heathrow Airport abused the British Terrorism Act in detaining the partner of Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who has been publishing most of the documents leaked by Edward Snowden.
Labour is right. There should be a swift investigation, but not into whether the authorities abused their power. The answer to that question is almost certainly “yes.” Mr. Greenwald’s partner, David Miranda, was detained for nine hours during a trip from Germany to Brazil. More than 97 percent of people stopped under the provision are questioned for under an hour. The British authorities also reportedly confiscated his thumb drives and other electronic media, including DVDs.

There’s not much need to investigate the motive for the detention, either, since it looks like it had nothing to do with “terrorism” and everything to do with gaining information on Mr. Greenwald’s work. Mr. Greenwald was quoted as saying, “The only thing they were interested in was N.S.A. documents and what I was doing with Laura Poitras.” (Ms. Poitras has been helping disseminate Mr. Snowden’s leaked documents.)
The real question is, who ordered the detention, and how they can be called to account?
Mr. Greenwald was justly outraged. “It’s a total abuse of the law.” He added: “This is obviously a serious, radical escalation of what they are doing. He is my partner. He is not even a journalist.”
It doesn’t matter whether Mr. Miranda is a journalist. (And actually he may have been playing a journalistic role. He was acting as a courier between Ms. Poitras and Mr. Greenwald. The Guardian newspaper, which has a contract with Mr. Greenwald, paid for the trip). Journalist or not, the British government had no right to hold him under a terrorism statute without a scrap of evidence that he was connected to any act of terrorism or any plot.
London’s Metropolitan Police Service said “holding and properly using intelligence gained from such stops is a key part of fighting crime, pursuing offenders and protecting the public.” That reminds me of the New York City government saying it’s OK to stop and frisk young black and Hispanic men at random, and with no cause, because it’s important to keep our streets safe.
 
U.K. government thought destroying Guardian hard drives would stop Snowden stories

By Timothy B. Lee, Published: August 19 at 6:24 pm washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch
In a remarkable post, Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger describes how the British government raided the Guardian’s offices in order to destroy hard drives containing information provided by NSA leaker Edward Snowden. The British government had been pressuring the Guardian to return or destroy the Snowden documents. Rusbridger says he tried to explain that destroying hard drives would be pointless:
I explained to the man from Whitehall about the nature of international collaborations and the way in which, these days, media organisations could take advantage of the most permissive legal environments. Bluntly, we did not have to do our reporting from London. Already most of the NSA stories were being reported and edited out of New York. And had it occurred to him that Greenwald lived in Brazil?
The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian’s long history occurred – with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian’s basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents… Whitehall was satisfied, but it felt like a peculiarly pointless piece of symbolism that understood nothing about the digital age.



Rusbridger says the Guardian’s investigative work will continue. “We will continue to do patient, painstaking reporting on the Snowden documents,” he writes. “We just won’t do it in London.”
 
Everyone, EVERYONE is being played by the politicians. And the annoying thing is, our politicians aren't that intelligent, they just know how to play people. America is falling fast.

Well no one is stopping them. You can report all their mistakes all day long, but the American people aren't doing anything about it. So politicians know they have a license to do pretty much whatever they like without negative consequence. I see this kind of thing in my FB feed all day and that is the extent to which people want to act (creating awareness only goes so far, you have to act); that and starting food co-ops (which is sometimes advertised as the highest form of rebellion in this day and age - wtf?). Basically everyone is doing the wrong thing.
 
How have i got an infraction for answering stu's post and questions?

He posted a post about Chomsky so i commented on that and then he asked me questions about it so i answered those

I think its a little rich there @Stu for you to say 'lets attempt to keep this on topic' when you started the tangent about chomsky which then naturally lead to the post about Israeli spying and operation cointelpro

It reminds me of the time you got me an infraction in the thread about the boston bombing saying it was all conspiracy theory nonsense then immediately started another thread about the conspiracy behind the boston bombing!!!!
@Sloe Djinn ....can you explain to me how i got an infraction here for answering Stu's posts and questions?
 
Last edited:
The reality is that this is old news. Only someone who has been living under a rock for the last ten years doesn't know that their government and the alphabet agencies are aggressively spying on them

The reason people aren't being pro-active in taking action on this is because they are largely CONFUSED. They can't yet see the full picture. All they see is isolated news stories but they don't join the dots

This can be easily demonstrated because if you try to join the dots on an internet chat forum you get told you are 'off topic' and given infractions

Its only when enough people are able to see that ALL of this stuff is very much on topic and related that they will be able to really understand what is going
 
Last edited:
Bringing up Chomskey was off topic, I apologize, my question was sarcastic.
 
I'm off topic and way out of the loop, but COINTELPRO.... I fail to be surprised about this shit.
 
@muir Yup. 9 posts in a row for one video and 3 gigantic posts in a row about that secret document. Those multiple and consecutive posts had no content directly relating to the topic. We've been through this before. Your posts are still on the forums, but they were placed and linked to a thread which covered them in the topic. If you want the explanation in public, fine. You were infracted for violating rule A1 and because I ended up doing what you could have done (and have been previously advised to do) to remain in compliance with that rule. If @Stu asked a question that led off-topic, that doesn't give you free reign to run with it to the extent that you did, which, once again, we've been over before. If you have any further questions, contact me or any of the staff (matter of fact, probably them or a private discussion thread, as my reign of terror is coincidentally winding down as we speak), but I'm not posting anything further with regard to this matter in this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nixie
You know if you spend your life only looking at something from 2 inches away you are never going to have a clue what is going on around that thing or why that thing is the way it is

You have to step back from things to take in the wider picture. THEN you can begin to see what is going on

This narrow way of discussing topics is distinctly un-INFJ!

Sometimes it feels with some of the discussions here like some people are looking at a brick wall with their noses almost touching it, asking 'what is all this red stuff?'

And all i'm doing is standing back from it saying 'dude...its a wall'

This is a thread about an ex intelligence officer whistleblowing about government spying programmes. I mentioned another intelligence officer who whistle blew on some stuff (Bill cooper) and that is apparently off topic!

Who gives a fuck which whistleblower is blowing the whistle. If you want to know why they are doing what they are doing and against whom then you need to think a little bigger

Put the microscope down and take in the full panaroma

Bill Cooper and snowdon are and were both warning people about the activities of the same people

Personally i think all this snowdon fuss might be a big distraction from something bigger that is going down behind the scenes. I'm expecting something big to happen soon
 
Last edited:
When we move from "whistle blower shines light on secret DEA program to construct parallel criminal cases using illegal surveillance" to " reptoid manifesto found in used copy machine" there has to be something wrong with the focus knob.
 
When we move from "whistle blower shines light on secret DEA program to construct parallel criminal cases using illegal surveillance" to " reptoid manifesto found in used copy machine" there has to be something wrong with the focus knob.

I didn't mention 'reptoids' YOU did

I spoke about the conspiracy on a certain level....i outlined it all very clearly

Who gives a damn about some story regarding a copy machine...thats probably just BS anyway...or shorthand for: 'someone gave me this paper, but they don't want to be named so i'm gonna say i found it in a copy machine'

What matters is what is in that paper. Judge each line on its own merits. Its just like the protocals....when you look at it it becomes clear that a group of people ARE following that blueprint

Its been said that the protocals were taken from a book.....uh huh ok, but where did that author get the ideas from?

You see...these things really are happening and many people are talking about them and its all leaking out from the control system and seeping down to us worker drone bees at the bottom of the control pyramid

Well guess what sherlock they ARE looking to control every aspect of our lives and the sooner the worker drone bees stop calling each other crazy for talking about this stuff and actually start taking responsibility for the world they live in the sooner we can make it a better one

You don't need to talk about 'reptoids' to find a lot of very valid stuff coming from the lips of david ike. perhaps if you listened to the man himself and not the media which seeks to discredit him you might begin to understand what he is saying

In the clip below a physicist explains how he looks at reality and it is the same way that Ike does. When you understand this perception then you can understand what he is saying about other things:

[video=youtube;9xv2yMY4DCg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xv2yMY4DCg[/video]

To go back to Snowdon. He is simply proving what Ike and others have said....that these guys perceive us as the enemy

Quote attributed to jefferson:

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

Jefferson and others threw off the british crown which was supplied with its gold from the rothschild banking dynasty

Ever since then the central bankers of europe and the british crown have sought to gain control of the americas again. They finally got the central bank they wanted in 1913 with the passing of the federal reserve act. The 'federal' reserve is not federal at all though and is instead owned by private bankers who answer to no one, which is why they stone wall congress when questioned by them, see clip below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGs_Qn5yEgs

The central bankers are back in the driving seat of the US. The war of independance has not stopped and your generation is currently losing it

These bankers create the alphabet agencies and they surround your politicians like obama like parasites whispering in his ears telling him what he should do

Snowdon is revealing only a part of their control system. but what he is doing is all a part of the same conspiracy that has been going on for centuries now

If you want to look at it on that level fine. if you want to go even deeper then people like Ike are talking about how things are working on a level that is not perceivable through the narrow band of light in which we perceive reality. His new book 'the perception deception' will be going over this stuff and snowdon is merely undoing the false perception that the government has tried to create that they are not spying on us

I believe though that this is all a distraction and that where this quiet/cold war against the people of the earth is hot is in syria.....some are saying that isra-hell has fired tactical nukes (warheads in tomahawk missiles) at syria and that they are supplying the rebels with chemical weapons to use against civilians so that the bankers who fund the rebels can use this as a justification to invade syria

Also the snowden issue is obscuring the bradley manning trial where he has just been given 35 years in prison for exposing the governments brutality

More snowden related clips in my next posts to keep this 'on topic'
 
[video=youtube;39CKuePmniE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39CKuePmniE[/video]
 
Snowden story in amongst the rising tensions between US/Israel and the BRIC nations:

[video=youtube;3P8-dtHIpac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P8-dtHIpac[/video]
 
[video=youtube;MQGwTvip7vc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQGwTvip7vc[/video]
 
Quote attributed to jefferson:
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

This quotation has not been found in any of Thomas Jefferson's writings. He did, however, employ the phrase "chains of the Constitution" at least once, in the Kentucky Resolutions of 1798: "...in questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the constitution..." (from draft)[2] - Anna Berkes, May 2009
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/two-enemies-people-are-criminals-and-governmentquotation

I do not have time to fact check 90% of what you post which leaves me vulnerable to being influenced by your rhetoric.