Occupy Protests Go Global

[muir]

People can be so naive and led too easily down the wrong path. Someone should be ashamed, but I sincerely doubt they care.

Yes people have been lead down the wrong path

Yes some people should be ashamed: the politicians who have allowed themselves to be bribed into deregulating the markets and the bankers who have been playing casino games with peoples money ever since.

You're also right that these two groups (the 1%) don't care because they have made themselves rich and passed their losses onto the public

They used to say they were 'free marketeers' but when they failed they got the government to bail them out which indebted the public to the bankers who despite crashing the economy have made off with massive personal bonuses leaving the public to now face 'austerity measures'

Making profits whilst passing the risk onto the taxpayer has become a policy of the 1% its called neoliberalism.

These actions of the 1% are causing hardship to millions and is tearing the social fabric of society apart.

You've got to ask yourself why they are doing it, other than to get richer themselves of course.

Either they are so reckless that they are willing to destroy the economy and risk revolution to make profits or they are so confident in the ability of the state (police, law courts, state troopers) to protect them from the public that they don't mind the increasing anger of the public.

The 'conspiracy theorists' would say that it is all part of a wider plan to create chaos in order to build a new order from it.

The global economy will be crashed so that the global bankers can offer their pre-prepared solution which is a global government (run by them not by democracy, with all the police and state apparatus required to monitor and control the public) and a global currency which they will control the supply of.

They are using the armies of the western countries to crush any resistance from countries that will not allow the global bankers to run their economies.

They are putting their 'technocrats' (bankers) in charge of governments in Europe that are teetering on the brink of economic collapse; these technocrats will not rescue the economy because that is not the plan; they will orchestrate the collapse and the rise of the new order.

They will continue the process of curbing civil liberties in western countries as the rights of the public will need to be stripped away to allow them totalitarian control.

People can either acquiesce to this process and watch their rights disappear and a new more controlling and exploitative, centralised government rule over them in a neo-fuedal state of serfdom or they can resist. The choice is becoming more stark with every passing month.

The problem is that the bankers and the corporations they own have been doing such a good job for so long now of pacifying and distracting the public with: television, shopping, sports, alcohol, computer games (circus and bread) and lies in the mainstream media that many people are not politically aware of what is happening.

The occupy movement is waking people up and giving the political system what it desperately needs which is a damn good shake

If we want to keep our democratic rights we need to put enough pressure on the 1% that they will develop the political will to bring about reforms to the system that will ease the hardship for people.

This transition to the new world order will be carried out gradually so as not to alarm the public too much and the mainstream media will be used to turn people against the resistance; for example the media will try to convince people that the protests are what is tearing the country apart.......but once again that is looking at the symptom and NOT the problem at the core.

The protests are a symptom of a deeper problem. The problem is one of inequality and the fact that the bankers are controlling our political system.

If you want to cure the problem don't treat the symptoms (eg with pepper spray) as that will not cure the sickness....go after the root problem which is the system (reform of the system is ultimately just a band aid though....we need a new system altogether)!!!!!

 

[just me]

I feel without the proper techniques, no matter how twisted the realities appear to be to all sides, there will be nothing but a continuing failure to please the angry mob. The universities where these folk have supposedly learned to think for themselves have failed them with their liberal teachings. The angry mob does not have a clue how to make the economy or the government work. They only see what they do not like and blame it all on some 1% they have imagined.

The world is focused on Syrian deaths of over 3500 people by the Assad regime's iron fisted handling of their protestors. The result? There will be within a week aircraft carriers from both Russia(1) and America(several) off the coast of Syria. There are already strike groups present with electronic warfare capabilities. One person making a mistake during such tension of this magnitude can cause thermo-nuclear war of a dimension that none of the protests could ever matter again anywhere for many years to come. Stupidity has presented itself to the wrong people, and the entire world could suffer for it. Protests may have a place, but there is a better way.

Change is coming, but I would bet it will be unlike any could possibly predict.

 

[detectivepope]

I think people need to realise that this current thing is very minor to events that have happened as recent as 30 years ago and with them nothing happened. The only difference is more pay attention now thus more talk and panic. One example the riots of the 80's.

 

[bickelz]

I think people need to realise that this current thing is very minor to events that have happened as recent as 30 years ago and with them nothing happened. The only difference is more pay attention now thus more talk and panic. One example the riots of the 80's.

No, this is different. The EU might break up. Countries be defaultin' on their debts and supposedly there are about 700 trillion in leveraged derivatives that are waiting to fuck us up the ass when the time is right (how nice of them).

The solution of this is basically a depression, which is serious shit.

 

[muir]

I feel without the proper techniques, no matter how twisted the realities appear to be to all sides, there will be nothing but a continuing failure to please the angry mob. The universities where these folk have supposedly learned to think for themselves have failed them with their liberal teachings. The angry mob does not have a clue how to make the economy or the government work. They only see what they do not like and blame it all on some 1% they have imagined..

That is simply not true

There are many people with very strong views about what needs to be reformed. If you are not aware of these, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

The term '1%' is used because it neatly explains how the wealth has become focused in a small number of hands; have a look at the following short video that will puts it very simply; bare in mind that these figures are from a decade ago so the wealth has become even more concentrated since; the top 1% now own 43% of financial assets:

[video=youtube;8VHNXTBwj80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VHNXTBwj80[/video]

There are reasons for why this has happened for example the deregulation of the markets. This can all be repealled. RICO can be applied to clean up the financial sector but the political will does not exist to do so, which is why people are protesting

The world is focused on Syrian deaths of over 3500 people by the Assad regime's iron fisted handling of their protestors. The result? There will be within a week aircraft carriers from both Russia(1) and America(several) off the coast of Syria. There are already strike groups present with electronic warfare capabilities. One person making a mistake during such tension of this magnitude can cause thermo-nuclear war of a dimension that none of the protests could ever matter again anywhere for many years to come. Stupidity has presented itself to the wrong people, and the entire world could suffer for it. Protests may have a place, but there is a better way.

Change is coming, but I would bet it will be unlike any could possibly predict.

I share your concerns over the heightening tensions. The US is at the centre of the tensions.

'Stupidity' would be letting the 1% continue to behave the way they are behaving. At home they are looting the public purse and abroad they are looting the resources of weaker countries.

You need to sort your government out because they are invading countries left right and centre....the US empire is collapsing and it's lashing out in all directions....it's a lose cannon on the world stage

When the british empire collapsed it saw 1 million people killed in the partition of India and a world war which killed millions.

Your political elite has lead you into countless conflicts and a shattered economy....its time you started demanding some change. If you don't want to get involved in that process then don't complain when things get tougher.

Voting hasn't worked, protesting definately is the way forward but protest can take many forms.

 

[muir]

No, this is different. The EU might break up. Countries be defaultin' on their debts and supposedly there are about 700 trillion in leveraged derivatives that are waiting to fuck us up the ass when the time is right (how nice of them).

The solution of this is basically a depression, which is serious shit.

Yeah. This is monumental....unprecedented; the bomb shell hasn't landed yet.

The derivative market grew up because of deregulation. The 1% has been obfuscating its actions through financial instruments such as derivatives but the reality is that they have pocketed all the money and left the public to suffer the consequences.

We need to protest and demand change and possibly some sort of debt jubilee

 

[bickelz]

Yeah. This is monumental....unprecedented; the bomb shell hasn't landed yet.

The derivative market grew up because of deregulation. The 1% has been obfuscating its actions through financial instruments such as derivatives but the reality is that they have pocketed all the money and left the public to suffer the consequences.

We need to protest and demand change and possibly some sort of debt jubilee

Derivatives aren't a bad thing, they're actually a pretty neat way of investing. The problem is specifically mortage backed securities as well as how much the drivatives have been leveraged. I've heard through the grapevine that a lot of them have been leveraged 100:1.

 

[muir]

Derivatives aren't a bad thing, they're actually a pretty neat way of investing. The problem is specifically mortage backed securities as well as how much the drivatives have been leveraged. I've heard through the grapevine that a lot of them have been leveraged 100:1.

This is just one example of how the system has gone haywire. Derivatives were behind the sub prime mortgage bubble but lets face it there are other bubbles gonna burst and other practices and forms of speculation that would not hold water in the court of public opinion. One major scandal at the moment is the MF Global scandal where over a billion dollars of investors money has gone missing. Jon Corzine, the man at the centre of the scandal was an ex boss at Goldman sachs and ran for the Senate; which just beautifully illustrates the insidious influence of the financial sector on the political system; here's a newspaper article about it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/25/jon-corzine-mfglobal-financial-services-committee

Some people will argue that we can put it right by creating regulation to stop that sort of reckless trading happening again. Some will say we need to legislate to take the money out of politics so that politicians can't be corrupted so easily. Some will say we need to seperate investment banks from depositary banks etc

I have advocated all these measures myself in these threads, but i still believe that these measures would simply be a stop gap and that the problem is much deeper.

The problem is with the system of capitalism itself and I also believe that as this giant ponzi scheme eats itself more and more people will begin to question the gospel truth that capitalism is the end of history and the final stop on the line of human evolution.

Capitalism is not the peak of human experience it is a failed experiment that we must learn from as we move forward.

I have spoken about reforms because i see them as better than nothing, but ultimately i see the flaw as capitalism itself and the fall in global demand which is its major flaw. The other reason i've spoken about reforms is because it is easier to convince people of the need for reforms than it is to convince them of the need for system change.

If you start talking about system change, some people look at you as if you have just sprung a pair of horns and will dismiss you as a 'commie' which in their mind is clearly some sort of bogeyman out to undermine their moral foundations. This is because they have been conditioned....nah lets say it like it is....they've been brainwashed by decades of media, films, tv, political rhetoric, advertising and even education to believe that capitalism is next to godliness....a fact i believe couldn't be further from the truth unless your god is Mammon.

The Occupy movement has avoided expressing any such radical ideas because many in the movement don't believe in them (yet) and because the movements aim is to seek popular support.

I think many in the movement still believe the system can be reformed and rescued....they're wrong, the system is doomed.

The struggle as i see it is not to rescue capitalism (an impossible task) but to ensure that what comes next is a system where everyone is taken care of and not one where the global investors have usurped power, centralised it under their control, bought up all the assets at knock down prices and are using the police as an enforcer against the public.

The struggle is to ensure that the next generation are all fed, housed, educated, free from debt, able to contribute in a meaningful way to society and are fully engaged with and involved in the democratic process and that means changing the system and disempowering those at the top (the real players are actually less than 1%)

 

[just me]

Involvement is much more appropo than an angry mob.

Do you think the protestors in Syria should be killed in the streets? If you do not, should the rest of the world sit by idly and watch it happen? Do you think the protestors ever dreamed it would come to an armed conflict? Do you think they were ready for it? Do you think they are ready to instill a new governing force with a military?

Wait! Maybe you believe Assad, Russia, China, and Iran should just tell the rest of the world it is none of their business. The world has become such a tiny place. There could be people in Egypt reading these posts. There could be people in foreign countries trying to stir civil strife in America simply trying to topple the government. You could be helping them to do that.

" Do you think the protestors in Syria should be killed in the streets? If you do not, should the rest of the world sit by idly and watch it happen? Do you think the protestors ever dreamed it would come to an armed conflict? Do you think they were ready for it? Do you think they are ready to instill a new governing force with a military? " Insert America instead of Syria in the beginning sentence. Do you not see how easily outside forces could be undermining the systems of the world?

Those that come to kill, steal, and destroy have their own leader, though they may not realize it. Those that come to rebuild, strengthen, instill human rights, establish governing bodies and military/police are the ones trying to help stamp out the ones trying to destroy things; America rebuilds, teaches, trains, implements, cares. People are being deceived by the great deceiver and must come to terms with it. People mostly are naive, and terrorism obfuscates realities. War has taken on an ugly face in the streets of the world. Free from all debt? Really...

I do not hold the protestors to blame for what they are doing at all, for there are really but a few energizing the naive. There are ways to implement change, and this is not a proper way.

 

[muir]

Involvement is much more appropo than an angry mob.

Do you think the protestors in Syria should be killed in the streets? If you do not, should the rest of the world sit by idly and watch it happen? Do you think the protestors ever dreamed it would come to an armed conflict? Do you think they were ready for it? Do you think they are ready to instill a new governing force with a military?

Wait! Maybe you believe Assad, Russia, China, and Iran should just tell the rest of the world it is none of their business. The world has become such a tiny place. There could be people in Egypt reading these posts. There could be people in foreign countries trying to stir civil strife in America simply trying to topple the government. You could be helping them to do that.

" Do you think the protestors in Syria should be killed in the streets? If you do not, should the rest of the world sit by idly and watch it happen? Do you think the protestors ever dreamed it would come to an armed conflict? Do you think they were ready for it? Do you think they are ready to instill a new governing force with a military? " Insert America instead of Syria in the beginning sentence. Do you not see how easily outside forces could be undermining the systems of the world?

Those that come to kill, steal, and destroy have their own leader, though they may not realize it. Those that come to rebuild, strengthen, instill human rights, establish governing bodies and military/police are the ones trying to help stamp out the ones trying to destroy things; America rebuilds, teaches, trains, implements, cares. People are being deceived by the great deceiver and must come to terms with it. People mostly are naive, and terrorism obfuscates realities. War has taken on an ugly face in the streets of the world. Free from all debt? Really...

I do not hold the protestors to blame for what they are doing at all, for there are really but a few energizing the naive. There are ways to implement change, and this is not a proper way.

There is a global movement at grassroots level by everyday people who are fed up of corruption in their political systems, perpetual war, corporate control of their governments, fed up of having no real stake in the democratic process (the two party system is a sham) and angry that they have been indebted to pay for the reckless behaviour of bankers who have not only not been punished for crashing the economy but who have actually been rewarded for it.

People are fully justified in protesting those things and arguably it is their duty as democratic citizens to challenge abuses of power. if they don't protest nothing will change because the 1% will continue acting in their own interests at the expense of the many.

I believe that workers from all countries regardless of their religion or race need to throw off their oppressive leaders and begin to cooperate across national borders.

The people coming to 'kill, steal and destroy' are the war profiteers (global investors) and the corrupt politicians who they own.

The people looking to 'rebuild, strengthen, instil human rights, establish governing bodies' ARE THE PROTESTORS!

The syrian people have their struggle and the US people have their struggle; the US government is not interested in helping the syrian people, it's interested in destabilisation. The CIA (terrorist organisation) and US military have been destabilising the world for the last 60 years in order to profiteer so they can feed the voracious capitalist machine that is now breaking down.

The US economy is going down the pan, you have police brutality on your own doorstep you have your own oppressive, dictatorial and corrupt government; you need to focus on the problems at home

 

[just me]

There is a global movement at grassroots level by everyday people who are fed up of corruption in their political systems, perpetual war, corporate control of their governments, fed up of having no real stake in the democratic process (the two party system is a sham) and angry that they have been indebted to pay for the reckless behaviour of bankers who have not only not been punished for crashing the economy but who have actually been rewarded for it.

People are fully justified in protesting those things and arguably it is their duty as democratic citizens to challenge abuses of power. if they don't protest nothing will change because the 1% will continue acting in their own interests at the expense of the many.

I believe that workers from all countries regardless of their religion or race need to throw off their oppressive leaders and begin to cooperate across national borders.

The people coming to 'kill, steal and destroy' are the war profiteers (global investors) and the corrupt politicians who they own.

The people looking to 'rebuild, strengthen, instil human rights, establish governing bodies' ARE THE PROTESTORS!

The syrian people have their struggle and the US people have their struggle; the US government is not interested in helping the syrian people, it's interested in destabilisation. The CIA (terrorist organisation) and US military have been destabilising the world for the last 60 years in order to profiteer so they can feed the voracious capitalist machine that is now breaking down.

The US economy is going down the pan, you have police brutality on your own doorstep you have your own oppressive, dictatorial and corrupt government; you need to focus on the problems at home

Wait a minute! I have heard these sounds before and they are familiar sounds. What I need to do.....

 

[muir]

Wait a minute! I have heard these sounds before and they are familiar sounds. What I need to do.....

Yes the need to do this is there; events will prove this to be true

The real reason your government is interferring in Syria is because Syria is currently an ally of Lebanese and Palestinean resistance movements

The US government and other imperialist forces are looking to hijack the revolution. What the US government would do if it had its way is instal a new dictatorship that would work with the US 1%. They are not interested in creating freedom, equality and opportunites for average Syrians because they are not even doing that for their own US citizens

 

[InvisibleJim]

Spot the difference...

 

[muir]

Spot the difference...

View attachment 10193

Is that real? If it is that's the US 1% managing the perceptions of the public through the media! (edit: it is real i just checked their website: http://www.time.com/time/magazine....beautiful!)

They're fighting a rear guard action here.....they're like that Iraqi minister of information who was telling everyone on television that they were about to strike a decisive blow against the US forces as the US was pushing into Bahgdad!

It's like the 1% are saying to the public:

'don't stress people, everything will be fine, there's no revolution happening, it's just a bunch of smelly hippies, get back to work and remember: its good for you to feel stressed anyway, stress is good for you....stress is good, and greed is good, stress and greed are both good.

Competition is also good but not competition with us just between yourselves. Yes compete with each other until you are stressed all to hell, and don't show any mercy to any other human being because greed is your default as a human being as God created you.

You mustn't question authority as that is unamerican and God hates a rebel, so just go back to work, whilst we pepper spray this small group of vagrants'

Police officer comes back to his corporate overlord: 'but pepper spray isn't working sir, its just making them more determined and growing support and sympathy for their movement'

Corporate overlord: THIS IS NOT A MOVEMENT! This is just a bunch of hippies, vagrants, bums. Ok let's send in the SWAT teams....

 

[InvisibleJim]

Some of mah favourites!!

 

[just me]

Yes the need to do this is there; events will prove this to be true

The real reason your government is interferring in Syria is because Syria is currently an ally of Lebanese and Palestinean resistance movements

The US government and other imperialist forces are looking to hijack the revolution. What the US government would do if it had its way is instal a new dictatorship that would work with the US 1%. They are not interested in creating freedom, equality and opportunites for average Syrians because they are not even doing that for their own US citizens

Poor excuse for an answer. Why do you think the AL is getting so involved now? I'd choose the pepper spray, however much it despises me that it happened, over T-71(and 2) tank fire and heavy machine guns any day. Line of protestors sprayed by one man(who wishes he hadn't) versus over 3500 dead ordered by a leader who is now threatening retaliation on his neighbors. I reckon the Americans asked Mubarak to leave so the Egyptians could try to get rid of the peace treaty with Israel, too? The Americans must have helped Gaddafi so his arsenal could end up in the hands of Israel's enemies. Why so much hatred for Israel?
Never mind, as that may get you off track.

 

[Sriracha]

qft

Did you just queef? LOL

 

[bickelz]

This is just one example of how the system has gone haywire. Derivatives were behind the sub prime mortgage bubble but lets face it there are other bubbles gonna burst and other practices and forms of speculation that would not hold water in the court of public opinion. One major scandal at the moment is the MF Global scandal where over a billion dollars of investors money has gone missing. Jon Corzine, the man at the centre of the scandal was an ex boss at Goldman sachs and ran for the Senate; which just beautifully illustrates the insidious influence of the financial sector on the political system; here's a newspaper article about it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/25/jon-corzine-mfglobal-financial-services-committee

True, there will be more bubbles that grow and burst. But Mortagage Backed Securities didn't create the Subprime Loans. That was a result of low interest rates from the Fed and constantly increasing home prices. The goal in the housing market was to flip a house after two years but once the economy slowed down, people got boned.

Some people will argue that we can put it right by creating regulation to stop that sort of reckless trading happening again. Some will say we need to legislate to take the money out of politics so that politicians can't be corrupted so easily. Some will say we need to seperate investment banks from depositary banks etc

Legislation regarding the amount you can give to a politician is a good idea. Let's get rid of loopholes like Super Pacs that let a person give unlimited amounts. Separation of loan banks from regular banks were a way for people to leverage a loan above the legal limit, which is a big part of the housing market going bad.

The problem is with the system of capitalism itself and I also believe that as this giant ponzi scheme eats itself more and more people will begin to question the gospel truth that capitalism is the end of history and the final stop on the line of human evolution.

Capitalism is not the peak of human experience it is a failed experiment that we must learn from as we move forward.

I wouldn't say it has failed. Just look at how far we have gotten because of capitalism. This is the most aggressive expansion in wealth in human history. Calling it a complete failure means that our days in feudalism left us better off.

I would also argue that it is essential to our evolution. Do you remember that topic that was posted a couple months ago that had to do with the atheist that met God on the train? Even though it might have been bullshit, there are some good points in it. Namely, that we need to live with things we deem to be dangerous in order to evolve. Capitalism can be dangerous, but it can fix what it causes.

Sure, big oil has been bad for the environment but just think of what a green energy bubble could do for the world. Next generation nuclear plants, solar, wind and wave. If we throw enough money at it, we might be able to get fusion to work for us. Capitalism works the fastest and most efficient out of any other model.

I think many in the movement still believe the system can be reformed and rescued....they're wrong, the system is doomed.

In the short run, we probably going to end up swallowing our pride and enter into some sort of depression. But after we fix everything at the bottom, things will get better and we will be stronger than ever. That's how it has always worked and that's how it always will work.

 

[barbad0s]

did you just queef? Lol

lolllllll

 

[muir]

Poor excuse for an answer.

That's a matter of opinion

Why do you think the AL is getting so involved now?

There are revolutions happening across the Arab world at the moment. The US says to its public, including you, that the reason they are doing this is to help the citizens of these Arab countries.

But if that were true then the US would be supporting ALL the revolutions, but it isn't. It isn't supporting the revolutions in: Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Yemen and it isn't supporting the protests by the citizens of Israel and Kuwait against their governments, because these countries are their allies.

The US is not acting out of humanitarian reasons, it is acting strategically and i'm making the point that i do not agree with that strategy. I do not think it is in the interests of the citizens of the US or of the 99% anywhere, but it represents the only approach that the imperialist 1% understand and that is 'snatch and grab' on a large scale. They have snatched and grabbed oil from various countries and within the US they have snatched and grabbed most of the wealth leaving everyone esle to face a depression......that has happened but it doesn't mean that people have to be happy about it

Many leaders in the Arab League are dictators who have benefitted from neoliberalism. For example Mubarak was found to have stashed away billions of dollars worth of money during his time as leader of Egypt and was an ally of the US 1%.....they were both following the same programme which is basically stealing from their own people. The dictators in the Arab league are the very people that the popular revolutions are trying to bring down! Many do not want the contagion of unrest in Syria spreading and want peace back as quickly as possible. Others want to see regime change in Syria.

In Libya the western powers refused to hand over the billions of dollars worth of Libyan money that they had sequestered that the Transitional government asked for to buy weapons to fight Gaddafi with. They also asked for a halt to the 'mercenary flights' that were supplying Gaddafi with troops. The western powers refused these demands. They even said no to weapons sales because they argued that these might fall into the hands of 'islamic terrorists'

What the west did do was put a number of demands on the revolution. They demanded that any future Libyan government honour the agreements they had made with Gaddafi for access to oil, they demanded that the repression of Islamist movements continue and that any future Libyan government blocked African immigrants from entering Europe.

The west basically blackmailed the revolution. Instead of western intervention the west should have released the funds to the revolutionaries so that they could wage an effective campaign against Gaddafi and they should have torn up all the oil agreements so that the revolutionaries could have used their natural resource to help the people of Libya. The workers could have taken over their work places like they did in Egypt and then isolated Gaddafi, like the Egyptians did to Mubarak.

I'd choose the pepper spray, however much it despises me that it happened, over T-71(and 2) tank fire and heavy machine guns any day.

If protests in the US threaten the 1% enough they will use violence and have used gun fire before for example the kent state shootings. In the occupy movement the police shot an Iraqi war veteran in the head with a tear gas canister causing him severe injury. As people tried to help him as he lay bleeding and unconscious on the ground, the police threw a tear gas grenade into the group (footage of the incident can be found online)

The 1% hasn't used violence of that magnitude yet because they are not feeling as threatened as the Syrian regime is by its revolutionaries. Syria is different as well in the respect that 75% of its population is Sunni whereas its ruling family The Assads are Alawites (Shia muslims), so there is a very real possibility of what began as a revolution by the people might be turned, by the intervention of imperialist powers, into a full blow sectarian civil war.

The Saudis are funding the Syrian opposition who are taking up arms in the struggle. The Jordanian King who has just used his military to crush revolutionaries in his own country is asking Assad to step down from power. Many do not want to see things escalate and would rather see popular revolt appeased if it can't be crushed, others want to see regime change, but all must appear, on the surface, to the public that they want to see peace.

Line of protestors sprayed by one man(who wishes he hadn't) versus over 3500 dead ordered by a leader who is now threatening retaliation on his neighbors.

What that policeman did was cowardly. I don't care if he was ordered to do it. I would never do it and if i was ordered to i would tell my commanding officer to go fuck himself.

He sprayed pepper spray into the faces of a group of peaceful, unarmed college kids who were exercising their democratic right to protest, when they presented him with no threat to his safety AT ALL. If any man ever needed to have time to reflect on their perceptions of what is acceptable behaviour it is him. If he regrets his actions, is it because his conscience is telling him it was wrong or because his behaviour has been shown around the world? That's for him to know i guess.

The police motto is 'serve and protect'....yeah but who do they serve and who do they protect? I think it is now becoming glaringly obvious that they serve and protect the 1% not the public, many of whom, particularly from poorer backgrounds have long accused the police of brutality.

I reckon the Americans asked Mubarak to leave so the Egyptians could try to get rid of the peace treaty with Israel, too?

The US americans will have asked mubarak to step down as a form of damage limitation. The US 1% know exactly what the Egyptian 1% know which is that Mubarak is just one person within the 1% of Egypt and in order to placate the revolutionaries who had proved themselves to be extremely determined in the face of government violence, the sensible thing to do was to give in to the peoples demand that Mubarak go.

This however changed nothing as the Egyptian 1% are still ruling Egypt so the people have fresh demands. The 1% are currently violently resisting the demands of the people.

The Americans must have helped Gaddafi so his arsenal could end up in the hands of Israel's enemies.

The west had already made agreements with Gaddafi to gain access to Libyan oil. When the Libyan revolution started the imperialist west which has an insatiable addiction to oil (because of the choke hold on power of oil companies the necessary and farsighted steps required towards renewables have not been taken) thought 'oh shit, there is now upheaval in Libya, we might lose acces to the oil!' So they took military steps to ensure they maintained access to Libya's oil whilst blackmailing the revolutionaries into oil concessions.

Why so much hatred for Israel?
Never mind, as that may get you off track.

No you've asked so i'll tell you.

I do not hate Israel. I have never said i hate Israel.

I am a libertarian socialist; i want all people around the world to work together and live together in peace. I want to see jews safe and i want to see muslims safe.

Because that is what i see as the end goal we should all be working towards, i then ask myself what strategies should people be following to achieve that end goal? I have expressed support, on this forum, for the protests by the Israeli 99% against the rising costs of living which they are facing.

The current US strategy regarding Israel is, as far as i see it, as follows:

The US government is using the state of Israel as a client state. It funds Israel to the tune of $6 billion a year in military aid to ensure that Israel represents the interests of the US, in the middle east, militarily. For example Mossad has recently been implicated in the assassination of Iranian scientists and Israel is currently threatening Iran with military strikes (using US hardware).

The rest of the world knows (including all the muslims) that Israel is currently behaving as an extension of the US military machine, which is why it is despised by many. Remember that one of the key demands of Osama Bin Laden, before 9/11, was that the western powers remove their soldiers from Muslim lands

Many Muslims are sick of western, imperialist intervention in muslim lands that have cost the lives of hundreds of thousands and probably millions of muslims, for well over a century now.

The US recently blocked (and applied diplomatic pressure to its key allies to block) the Palestinian appeal in the UN for recognition of the Palestinian state. This clearly shows that despite claims by the US government, in the media, that it is simply acting as a mediator in the Israel/Palestine conflict that it is in fact acting as a direct barrier to progress and peace. The truth is that the US does not want peace between those two peoples....it wants Israel to continue acting as a forward military base for the US.

The US government doesn't care that no Israeli will ever be able to feel safe because of the state of perpetual conflict which US funding ensures (Israel doesn't feel the need to compromise with the Palestinians while the US is standing behind it and handing it weapons and money). It simply wants to use Israel in its global power games.

If Israelis want to feel safe (and lets face it living in fear is no way to live) then surely they need to find a way to live peacefully with their neighbours on an equal footing?

Fundamentalist christians in the US seem to have some bizarre relationship with the Israel situation. Correct me if i'm wrong but some of them believe that if a purely jewish Israel is created without any muslims in it then it will beckon in the second coming of Jesus Christ and for that reason they support any aggressive expansionist actions by Israel?

They seem to overlook the whole message of love that Jesus was preaching....that seems to be lost on them. It seems to me that Jesus simply took the feeling of love and support that most people feel for their family and loved ones and expanded out that circle to incorporate everyone. Not a bad mentality to have i think.

I think the struggle in the US is, at the moment, one mainly for hearts and minds. The 1% know that if they come down too hard on the protestors that they will expose the brutality that they they exert onto many other countries (and their civilians) through overt and covert military actions; that would lose them the support of large chunks of the public. Just as in elections there are 'swing voters' who have not made up their mind who to support yet....the occupy movement and the US government are both competing with each other to win the support of those swing voters.

The war the 1% is waging on the 99% in the US is, at the moment, being fought with words not bullets, with financial weapons of mass destruction not bombs and with legislation not tanks. This could all change of course and we are already seeing the state using excesive and unnecesary force against its citizens as the 1% refuse to compromise with its citizens.

Seeing as the US has the biggest expenditure in the world on military hardware i could post images of the hardware it is using against people all around the world at the moment, in response to your pictures, but i think that would be inappropriate