Mystical experiences and what it means to you.

[Bikerdelic]

What I mean is this. Consciousness arises on the quantum level through the brain, now you cannot weigh consciousness, you cannot capture it nor see it, but we know it exists because we are conscious. So what you haven't picked up is that I was not talking about something you can square away by common garden science. New developments in quantum physics suggests that knowledge could be a fundamental force in the universe, something they didn't suspect in the past, although many MYSTICS certainly were aware of such possibilities. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one ThisiswhoIam as it wasn't originally intended to create a scientific debate, but to see if other people have had these experiences and whether it related to INFJ type personality.

 

[sprinkles]

What I mean is this. Consciousness arises on the quantum level through the brain, now you cannot weigh consciousness, you cannot capture it nor see it, but we know it exists because we are conscious. So what you haven't picked up is that I was not talking about something you can square away by common garden science. New developments in quantum physics suggests that knowledge could be a fundamental force in the universe, something they didn't suspect in the past, although many MYSTICS certainly were aware of such possibilities. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one ThisiswhoIam as it wasn't originally intended to create a scientific debate, but to see if other people have had these experiences and whether it related to INFJ type personality.

Buddhists have a term - pratityasamutpada - which roughly means that things are interdependently arising. So yes, consciousness too does have its causes and it is a thing.

The problem with such abstract notions, especially of eastern origin, is that some people love to run wild with them and imagine all sorts of things which at times can cloud the mind with magical possibilities, and can lead to distraction from the actual useful essence of such things, and even lead to a form of pretentiousness in a sense. Many of these concepts that they take were originally nothing but secular in nature though. Popular concepts about karma are a good example of this happening.

So yes, people have been aware of these possibilities outside the realm of science, but it's just something that has been well known as perfectly natural just like knowing anything else that one can perceive on a daily basis.

Knowledge is the sum of information plus perception plus consciousness. Information is literally everywhere in all places, since its fundamentally just the arrangement of things. One definition of information is as follows:
"the attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something (as nucleotides in DNA or binary digits in a computer program) that produce specific effects"

So all things are actually potential information. The true mystery though is the interdependent arising of it, because in fact there are no fundamental forces by themselves. What is gravity without bodies or mass? It is nothing. What is the electromagnetic force without particles? It is nothing. What is knowledge without consciousness? It is nothing.

It is said that all things are empty because nothing exists alone.

 

[Bikerdelic]

I agree with you sprinkles that some people do take the theories to the limits which doesn't help the authenticity of any idea or theory. It was a difficult subject to discuss due to the vagueness that most experiences seem to project on other peoples minds. Concerning the reply by a certain gentleman, "well I am not a mystic, but I am a published and performing Poet and painter, so that might explain a little lol.
Well I'm going to keep agnostic in my approach to the universe and existence, as I believe that we need to be careful not to discount theories of consciousness, as science still doesn't know enough to truly have a conclusive opinion yet, if ever.
The very nature of consciousness is paradoxical in nature, as is existence when you get down to the fact that you have two laws of science that don't mesh together, the law of quantum physics and the laws of relativity. In between these two laws is a Paradox, the balance point of the universe and existence.
It is therefore likely that in a dualistic universe (That isn't really dualist philosophically speaking) there exists the paradox, the middle where two forces join up. Like an old fashioned magnet, which has positive and negative ends but in the middle there is a neutral zone or (Dead zone).
I believe this is what Buddha referred as following the middle way, (The balance) to live a balanced existence, physically and psychologically within a neutral zone, that is paradoxical in nature. This is why Zen is paradoxical and difficult to understand if you are only using one side of your thinking that is Intellectual overriding ones intuitional insight.
Zen is comprehended and experienced when you combine to two parts of ones thinking together in the middle ground, within such a paradox, just the same as the paradox that holds this universe together.
It is I believe from this paradoxical nature of our consciousness, that such experiences can happen.



Look for the paradox's within the universe don't settle on certainties, as this only leads to dead ends, think outside the box whilst keeping good sense, logic and reason.

 

[sprinkles]

I probably should have maybe posted the following in here instead of making a new thread which I made in the wrong place, hopefully somebody will clean that up for me. I think this is relevant though, and it's a bit of epiphany that I'd like to discuss and look at, so here goes.

Samsara - What is Death and Rebirth?
Samsara is the cycle of birth, death and rebirth, as described in Buddhism. I believe this happens in some fashion, because I've felt shadows of what would seem to be some kind of past lives.

I have one issue though - it may sound absurd but I'm not entirely sure how this takes place because I'm not actually certain what a life and death actually is. I'm not entirely sure that at some point I died and decomposed and some ethereal part of myself magically floated away and was reborn again. However, what grabs me is the persistence of things like genetics, and also the persistence of the state of information in the world as a whole which in itself necessarily effects any beings that are born.

Also importantly, what exactly am I to be reborn? What comprises me such that this can be achieved? My only thought is that there must be no actual me as a precise collection of whatever - I mean like if in the next life I'm a bat or something, how is that me at all? At the same time though, all of the world and matter and energy when viewed from sufficiently large or small scales is simply a huge cloud of stuff. My body is a cloud of cells and energy persisting in a cloud of air and dust and water and tiny bugs that are invisible to the eye which are also just clouds of matter themselves, resting on a giant cloud of dirt and rocks and magma which is floating in a galaxy which is basically just a bigger cloud of stuff - I mean just look at the milky way and zoom way out. It's a big indiscriminate spiraling cloud of stuff with me somewhere in there.

In fact the entire known universe looks like a cloud, from what we know, if you can zoom out to a sufficient scale everything in it looks like a big and evenly distributed blob of stuff. Stuff that is all interacting with each other. It's basically one massive cloud. What is really me out of all of that?

What say you?

 

[just me]

I dreamed the other night someone was slowly pulling the covers off me. When I opened my eyes, I was on my side with head turned mostly down and to the side. I saw the covers slowly moving toward the foot of the bed. I let out a strange, somewhat frightened groan. It stopped as I got up and looked......................................................Sometime around noon that day, I realized my Dad used to pull the covers off to get me up when I hit the "snooze, not getting up yet" from his awakening voice. We did it in fun...................................................I have been having to make some tough decisions as of late, some of which include some things I purchased from him. I had been worrying he would not approve. For some reason, I feel vindicated and free now. I feel he approves..................................Mystical??? I look at it with older words. Chalam: be in good liking; recover................................Chazah: a revelation; expectation by dream---vision; see. I look to God for my understanding of these things.

 

[Bikerdelic]

I probably should have maybe posted the following in here instead of making a new thread which I made in the wrong place, hopefully somebody will clean that up for me. I think this is relevant though, and it's a bit of epiphany that I'd like to discuss and look at, so here goes.

Samsara - What is Death and Rebirth?
Samsara is the cycle of birth, death and rebirth, as described in Buddhism. I believe this happens in some fashion, because I've felt shadows of what would seem to be some kind of past lives.

I have one issue though - it may sound absurd but I'm not entirely sure how this takes place because I'm not actually certain what a life and death actually is. I'm not entirely sure that at some point I died and decomposed and some ethereal part of myself magically floated away and was reborn again. However, what grabs me is the persistence of things like genetics, and also the persistence of the state of information in the world as a whole which in itself necessarily effects any beings that are born.

Also importantly, what exactly am I to be reborn? What comprises me such that this can be achieved? My only thought is that there must be no actual me as a precise collection of whatever - I mean like if in the next life I'm a bat or something, how is that me at all? At the same time though, all of the world and matter and energy when viewed from sufficiently large or small scales is simply a huge cloud of stuff. My body is a cloud of cells and energy persisting in a cloud of air and dust and water and tiny bugs that are invisible to the eye which are also just clouds of matter themselves, resting on a giant cloud of dirt and rocks and magma which is floating in a galaxy which is basically just a bigger cloud of stuff - I mean just look at the milky way and zoom way out. It's a big indiscriminate spiraling cloud of stuff with me somewhere in there.

In fact the entire known universe looks like a cloud, from what we know, if you can zoom out to a sufficient scale everything in it looks like a big and evenly distributed blob of stuff. Stuff that is all interacting with each other. It's basically one massive cloud. What is really me out of all of that?

What say you?





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Thumbs Down! Thumbs Up!

Well I just have to say first that I am now going to be talking on a more philosophically level to explain my point, in case I get misquoted.
Think for a moment about the two laws of the universe, then consider that everything has an opposite, (Day night, life and death) Now to keep it understandable and describable, lets consider that your awareness and consciousness could be seen to reside on the quantum spectrum, whilst your genes are concerning the material world belonging to the same spectrum as the laws of relativity.
As you will know sprinkles that In Buddhism there is no immortal soul, only awareness, so there is no true self, even though this sounds a complete paradox, as we can clearly see our own reflection. But of course that reflection changes through time and changes into the variety of different ages and thus changing evolving You.
So it is not your personality or soul that reincarnates in Buddhism, as this is dependant upon the arising conditions and environments that we are born into as well as our genes, it is only your awareness which is in common with every other human being. This concept is very difficult for many western people to intrinsically accept, but it was also the case in the Buddha's time. Therefore its your awareness that is understood to reincarnate, and not the personality as this is impermanent. It dies when we die, so the philosophical idea in this, that there is no true self to hate or love, only our awareness.
But of course we have to live in the material world, and need personalities to communicate with each other, not just words, to fall in love, play or write music, appreciate or create art, so here again, I bring your attention to my earlier point of balance between the transcendental states of consciousness and the material world everyday world. Living or perceiving only in either one of these states would be like walking around with one of your eyes permanently closed.

 

[ThisIsWhoIAm]

What I mean is this. Consciousness arises on the quantum level through the brain, now you cannot weigh consciousness, you cannot capture it nor see it, but we know it exists because we are conscious. So what you haven't picked up is that I was not talking about something you can square away by common garden science. New developments in quantum physics suggests that knowledge could be a fundamental force in the universe, something they didn't suspect in the past, although many MYSTICS certainly were aware of such possibilities. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one ThisiswhoIam as it wasn't originally intended to create a scientific debate, but to see if other people have had these experiences and whether it related to INFJ type personality.

No problem. I have shared quite a few of these experiences i previous posts, i suppose you haven't seen them. I may share again or other experiences later as i'm a bit tired now, but i want to add that i'm quite sure that special, mystical or psychic experiences whatever you want to call them, "happen" to especially sensitive people, i put happen in marks because i believe everyone has these experiences daily, but only a relative small percentage notices them, and a fewer percentage understands some of them.

 

[sprinkles]

Well I just have to say first that I am now going to be talking on a more philosophically level to explain my point, in case I get misquoted.
Think for a moment about the two laws of the universe, then consider that everything has an opposite, (Day night, life and death) Now to keep it understandable and describable, lets consider that your awareness and conscious could be seen to reside on the quantum spectrum, whilst your genes are concerning the material world belonging to the same spectrum as the laws of relativity.
As you will know sprinkles that In Buddhism there is no immortal soul, only awareness, so there is no true self, even though this sounds a complete paradox, as we can clearly see our own reflection. But of course that reflection changes through time and changes into the variety of different ages and thus changing evolving You.
So it is not your personality or soul that reincarnates in Buddhism, as this is dependant upon the arising conditions and environments that we are born into as well as our genes, it is only your awareness which is in common with every other human being. This concept is very difficult for many western people to intrinsically accept, but it was also the case in the Buddha's time. Therefore its your awareness that is understood to reincarnate, and not the personality as this is impermanent. It dies when we die, so the philosophical idea in this, that there is no true self to hate or love, only our awareness.
But of course we have to live in the material world, and need personalities to communicate with each other, not just words, to fall in love, play or write music, appreciate or create art, so here again, I bring your attention to my earlier point of balance between the transcendental states of consciousness and the material world everyday world. Living or perceiving only in either one of these states would be like walking around with one of your eyes permanently closed.

Thanks, that makes clear what I'm pretty sure I already knew all along but couldn't articulate in my mind due to premade connotations not exactly fitting the concepts.

 

[Bikerdelic]

No problem. I have shared quite a few of these experiences i previous posts, I suppose you haven't seen them. I may share again or other experiences later as i'm a bit tired now, but i want to add that i'm quite sure that special, mystical or psychic experiences whatever you want to call them, "happen" to especially sensitive people, i put happen in marks because i believe everyone has these experiences daily, but only a relative small percentage notices them, and a fewer percentage understands some of them.

Yes ThisIsWhoIam, I do agree with your reply. Certainly its in the noticing of things, and gaining more awareness of our reality in our lives and world.

 

[ThisIsWhoIAm]

Castaneda anyone? Gordief, Dostoyevski?

Edit: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, Dostoyevski is a whole other beast.