MBTI's Concrete Impact on Your Life

[philostam]

The big difference imo is what one does with Se. Ni types at some level wish they could be Se dominants, but realize they can never be one. There is something enticing about having that kind of presence and the ability to act. There is an appreciation for Se, but a recognition of its limiations as well. It does seem goes against reflecting, ruminating, contemplation, etc. When I unconsciously do Se things, it makes me feel visible and alive. Too much and you start to loose that Ni perspective.

Right now I just want to f*** someone, while denying this need I have. I don't want to succumb to these desires because of long term consequences. This is why I am being so careful. I want to make sure it is going to be someone I trust and doesn't have longterm negative consequences. I want to make sure they have a host of other desirable traits, someone I can have a meaningful relationship with because f***ing is unfulfilling on its own.

Yes, this is more like it.

It describes my relationship with Fe as well.

 

[philostam]

Why does so much consideration have to go into nearly every action? It is so frustrating!!!

INXX problems.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I feel you there, Thomas.

Thanks man. I knew you would.

 

[John K]

Well, both INFP and INFJ have weak Se, so my question was strategically posed.

I was asking because you seem to be quite feminine and I wonder how you feel about masculinity, strength, image managment etc. Maybe I understand Se the wrong way, but I associate it with masculinity and all the adjectives that belong to it.

I consider Si feminine because it is self conscious. Being self conscious breeds anxiety and insecurity. Se is focused outwardly, it's more in control of the environment, reads body language better etc.

So I never liked the "how do INXJ engage Se" stuff, because it seemed so stupid. Binge watch series, eat food, have sex. Well, I do the same. So this is not good enough for me.

When I came to conclusion that Se is about masculinity and certain will to affect the real world, it became more clear in INXJs compared to INXPs.

I'm uncomfortable identifying any of the functions with gender. I think my attitude comes from the over-identification of Fe with the feminine, which is both misunderstanding what it's actually about, and the damage it does to F-oriented men who end up mistyping themselves as a consequence, or feeling unhappy in their own skins as a result.

But .... Se is an irrational perceiving function that just is - I can't see how men can be any better at seeing the outside world that women, or how it fits men better than women. I can see the way that there may be a gender bias in the way the world is interpreted through the various judging functions, but not in its primordial perception?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I'm uncomfortable identifying any of the functions with gender. I think my attitude comes from the over-identification of Fe with the feminine, which is both misunderstanding what it's actually about, and the damage it does to F-oriented men who end up mistyping themselves as a consequence, or feeling unhappy in their own skins as a result.

But .... Se is an irrational perceiving function that just is - I can't see how men can be any better at seeing the outside world that women, or how it fits men better than women. I can see the way that there may be a gender bias in the way the world is interpreted through the various judging functions, but not in its primordial perception?

Can you remember when I had all that bother with my type last winter, John?

I'd typed myself INFJ, then got pulled over to INTJ mostly due to the doubts expressed by my ex... I actually felt some relief, if you recall, that I was able to relax into my masculinity with an INTJ typing.

As it stands, I don't feel unhappy in my own skin, but I don't think I would care either way what people typed me as these days.

 

[philostam]

I'm uncomfortable identifying any of the functions with gender. I think my attitude comes from the over-identification of Fe with the feminine, which is both misunderstanding what it's actually about, and the damage it does to F-oriented men who end up mistyping themselves as a consequence, or feeling unhappy in their own skins as a result.

But .... Se is an irrational perceiving function that just is - I can't see how men can be any better at seeing the outside world that women, or how it fits men better than women. I can see the way that there may be a gender bias in the way the world is interpreted through the various judging functions, but not in its primordial perception?

That's funny, because I see Fe as more masculine than Fi. Well, at least Fe doms compared to Fi doms.

Perhaps I am using this word "masculine" in a wrong way...Ofc women can good as seeing and controlling the outside world. But wouldn't you say Se women (let's say STPs) are less feminine than Si women?

 

[ThomasJ79]

That's funny, because I see Fe as more masculine than Fi. Well, at least Fe doms compared to Fi doms.

Perhaps I am using this word "masculine" in a wrong way...Ofc women can good as seeing and controling the outside world. But wouldn't you say Se women (let's say STPs) are less feminine than Si women?

Ti types, lol. I don't mean it as scorn.

 

[John K]

Can you remember when I had all that bother with my type last winter, John?

I'd typed myself INFJ, then got pulled over to INTJ mostly due to the doubts expressed by my ex... I actually felt some relief, if you recall, that I was able to relax into my masculinity with an INTJ typing.

As it stands, I don't feel unhappy in my own skin, but I don't think I would care either way what people typed me as these days.

I do, very well. Actually I think you are a great example of what Thomas was saying earlier - because you seem to be very typical INTJ to me, but use many other functions pretty damn well too.

I should add that while I don't think the functions are intrinsically gendered, men and women do express them in gender-typical ways.

 

[Ren]

But wouldn't you say Se women (let's say STPs) are less feminine than Si women?

Not really, I would see ISFP women as usually extremely feminine, way more than ISFJ for example.

Se is neither masculine nor feminine, but maybe it has the power of expressing either vividly.

 

[Impact Character]

I don't know, guys. I think men and women come in many male and female ways in which the functions show, furthermore I would agree more to this direction if we would switch from stereotypes of what is female and male to the impressions of what is yin and yang. Meaning Se seems yang and Si more yin. At least, imo that would resonate a little more with me.

 

[philostam]

Not really, I would see ISFP women as usually extremely feminine, way more than ISFJ for example.

Se is neither masculine nor feminine, but maybe it has the power of expressing either vividly.

Well, yeah, that's because Fi is the most feminine of all functions in my book.

I mean, all introverted functions are more feminine than their extraverted counterparts...But I feel I am getting into slippery territory here, and I am not in best condition or environment to think about it more deeply.

 

[John K]

That's funny, because I see Fe as more masculine than Fi. Well, at least Fe doms compared to Fi doms.

Perhaps I am using this word "masculine" in a wrong way...Ofc women can good as seeing and controlling the outside world. But wouldn't you say Se women (let's say STPs) are less feminine than Si women?

Ah! I see what you mean. Not that the functions themselves have a gender content as such, but that which ones people use and how they use them can colour our perception of how we see them on a male/feemale spectrum.

But is this girl any the less feminine because she's using a lot of Se?

 

[Ren]

Well, yeah, that's because Fi is the most feminine of all functions in my book.

Yeah but even so, we could control for Fi by taking INFP and ISFP in comparison. According to your logic, INFP should be more feminine since NeSi vs. SeNi, and yet it's clearly not the case. ISFP women tend to be the most feminine of all, whereas INFP women are more likely to be a little eccentric, zany, not as exquisitely made up, etc.

Anyway, this is just to show that your argument about Se doesn't hold upon closer scrutiny, it's shaky at best imo.

 

[philostam]

Oh, but I think ISFP are more masculine than INFP, so the argument stands for me.

Perhaps not if you compare ISFP woman witn an INFP man.

But if you compare ISFP woman with INFP woman, I think INFP are more feminine on average.

 

[Ren]

But is this girl any the less feminine because she's using a lot of Se?

Hard to say, maybe she reads Proust at night

 

[ThomasJ79]

Yeah but even so, we could control for Fi by taking INFP and ISFP in comparison. According to your logic, INFP should be more feminine since NeSi vs. SeNi, and yet it's clearly not the case. ISFP women tend to be the most feminine of all, whereas INFP women are more likely to be a little eccentric, zany, not as exquisitely made up, etc.

Anyway, this is just to show that your argument about Se doesn't hold upon closer scrutiny, it's shaky at best imo.

Se has mostly in the moment, impulsive, literal, raw, even territorial. It has feminine and masculine versions, but it is the epitome of the reckless male stereotype. It is worse with higher testosterone, but can be manifest in those with under developed frontal lobes.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Case in point:

I've just gone out in a light jacket because I'm generally somewhat unaware of my Se surroundings. It's far too cold for the clothes I've put on, and I'm not even a young lady on the town. But I tend to just force my body to handle whatever I put it through without consideration of its needs.

Is this 'wrap up warm' instinct an example of Se being 'feminine' and soft to itself? Considerate of its environment and sensitive to the needs of the body?

Is a lack of Se therefore something 'tougher' and more masculine?

 

[Ren]

Case in point:

I've just gone out in a light jacket because I'm generally somewhat unaware of my Se surroundings. It's far too cold for the clothes I've put on, and I'm not even a young lady on the town. But I tend to just force my body to handle whatever I put it through without consideration of its needs.

Is this 'wrap up warm' instinct an example of Dr being 'feminine' and soft to itself? Considerate of its environment and sensitive to the needs of the body?

Is a lack of Se therefore something 'tougher' and mire masculine?

This reminds me of the opposite case, namely that many Se-dom men care so much about their appearance that they seem stylish to the point of being unmanly to me. Like pretty boys.

I think that's very manly Hos

 

[John K]

Hard to say, maybe she reads Proust at night

Or maybe just rewatches Monty Python's Summarising Proust Competion

Se has mostly in the moment, impulsive, literal, raw, even territorial. It has feminine and masculine versions, but it is the epitome of the reckless male stereotype. It is worse with higher testosterone, but can be manifest in those with under developed frontal lobes.

Both my wife and I enjoy our food to the same extent.

Women may express ungoverned sensuality in less spectacular ways than men, but can still let it sweep them along without any judging control - there's plenty of that about in the streets of my home town on a Friday evening . Or more respectably, heading off to sun, sea and sand holidays.

 

[Ren]

Se has mostly in the moment, impulsive, literal, raw, even territorial. It has feminine and masculine versions, but it is the epitome of the reckless male stereotype.

Hmmm, let's then take all the ESFP men in Paris, with their slender bodies and effete manners, and force them into battle against the Spartans at Thermopylae. I look forward to seeing their impulsive, raw, territorial ardour at play!