[Important] Limit

[Limit]

Extraverted feeling is generally known as the “be nice function.” Definitions like this one, found on the cognitive processes site, state:

The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.

So generally people think of extraverted feeling as being nice, chivalrous, etc. This, I believe, is a very misconstrued idea!

I see extraverted feeling as the function that reasons, decides, and judges the collision of principles, rules of conduct, and the distinction between right and wrong sourced from an external, localized area.

This preference relates itself to external, anthropological archetypes within its proximity: culture, friends, family, community, school, etc.; therefore, biases, preferences, and other external standards that are agreed upon within the proximity becomes one’s personal values and system.

These values are projected outwardly and emulated, to ensure and maintain harmony so that the environment contains socially accepted preferences. Anything outside of those socially accepted preferences perpetrates a disruption within the psyche. This causes a reaction by the ego to manipulate its consciousness back to a psychological homeostasis through defense mechanisms.

These defense mechanisms are developed through continuous conflict within the life cycle of the ego. This is one of the reasons why it should be understood that we all do different things for the same reasons, and even the same things for different reasons. The varying types and levels of defense mechanisms will generate a wide range of different outwardly behavioral proclivity stemming from the same cognitive preferences.

[Insert really, really long break down of defense mechanisms, motivations, and the enneagram. I took this part out because it would make this several pages long and can be broken into smaller articles in the future.]

Examples may include those with the same cognitive preference withdrawing from society to limit the amount of conflicts between a wide range of opposing anthropological archetypes, while others may take to even campaigning them!

 

[Phoenix Down]

Expand.

Would you go so far as to say withdraw from society to limit conflict be an indicator of poor Fe?

How about the "devil may care attitude"?

 

[aeon]

I see extraverted feeling as the function that reasons, decides, and judges the collision of principles, rules of conduct, and the distinction between right and wrong based from an external, localized area.

Sounds just about right, and I agree with you.

That said, please do consider changing

 

[Saru Inc]

Sounds just about right, and I agree with you.

That said, please do consider changing

 

[Neuropedia]

SARU IS NOT AN EXTRAVERTED FEELER, I JUST FOUND OUT

 

[Arsal]

Musings...

I struggled with the definition of Te for the longest time, and I didn't understand it. In retrospect, I didn't fully understand Fe either (and possibly still don't), but I'm beginning to grasp the full picture based on definitions I've read and my own reflections on those.

Fe and Te, in a certain sense, are modes of survival. I opined this before and someone far more well-read in typology corrected me with the preposition that it's Se that is truly the survivalist function, not Fe or Te, but I like to think he/she didn't understand the context I was speaking from, which is partially my fault because I assumed that my intuitive understanding of "survival" would carry to the other person without a proper definition provided. So here's my attempt at a definition:

"The struggle to remain alive."

What the Je functions do, in my understanding, is bring structure to this concept. To bring a slightly broader definition to the table, Fe or Te means "adherence to a systematic approach to living, with regards to rules and regulations created for the sake of survival".

This, in my subjective understanding, is what Je functions stand for. @Limit, correct me if I'm wrong.

PS. Good post!

 

[Morgain]

Extraverted feeling is generally known as the

 

[88chaz88]

Do they never think for themselves?

That's where Ti comes in.

 

[Odyne]

I mean, I would think that's kind of obvious.

I mean, I see Fe as pretty self explanatory. Its feeling directed toward the environment. Sure thats a simple (and debateably ignorant) statement, but I think its kind of easy to deduce the rest from that.

No. Fe is morals and ethics that are derived from the environment and the collective (or the group).

It has absolutely nothing to do with expressing feeling externally. I can still lash out on you (outwardly expression) because your views don't fit with my values (Fi).

I struggled with the definition of Te for the longest time, and I didn't understand it.

Te is deriving factual assessments and critical analysis from the group or the collective.

"This is what we agree on to be the correct and accurate thing to do/be."

Te+Fi when they don't align:

"This is what *we* agree on to be the correct thing to do, but *I* as an individual don't think it's the right thing to do"

 

[Arsal]

Te is deriving factual assessments and critical analysis from the group or the collective.

"This is what we agree on to be the correct and accurate thing to do/be."

Te+Fi when they don't align:

"This is what *we* agree on to be the correct thing to do, but *I* as an individual don't think it's the right thing to do"

What would be a distinguishing characteristic of Te? I ask because I can apply these definitions to any person, even those who are (supposedly) not Te-users, such as myself.

 

[Oranguh]

This preference relates itself to external, anthropological archetypes within its proximity: culture, friends, family, community, school, etc.; therefore, biases, preferences, and other external standards that are agreed upon within the proximity becomes one

 

[Odyne]

What would be a distinguishing characteristic of Te? I ask because I can apply these definitions to any person, even those who are (supposedly) not Te-users, such as myself.

Here is a description of Te that is written by someone who has been studying JCF for quite some time on another forum. I believe this to be accurate and true:

Te, or extroverted Thinking, is dominant for ExTJ, secondary for IxTJ, tertiary for ExFP and inferior for IxFP.

It's an attitude that encourages an external, objective standard when dealing with logic, impersonal facts and ideas. Te, when arguing, will tend to cite appeals to authority and other widely accepted, externally focused evidence; i.e., citing books or prominent authors/studies, or any widely accepted consensus among the external world of people who study the topic in question. "The experts all agree that this is the case" is a very Te-oriented argument, because it relies on external standards and context for its evaluation of logical decisions.

For this reason Te people will usually insist on seeing quantifiable, repeatedly demonstrable, empirical evidence before accepting anything. If you can't put it in a test tube, measure it and repeat these results any time for all to see, it's not valid. The scientific method is extremely Te-oriented. From the Te perspective, there is no such thing as logic without this sort of externalized validity, because impersonal ideas are to be shared and agreed upon by large groups instead of individuals (the same way Fe treats ethics) and determined by objective consensus. Te users tend to find Ti selfish and unyielding in its insistence on fitting things into its own personal logical framework before accepting them, rather than taking widely accepted external evidence or consensus seriously.

Strong Te users are efficiency experts. They are typically very good at translating a theoretical idea into a fluid, external process that gets effective, measurable results that can be repeated and verified on schedule. They usually do very well in management positions that allow them to focus on process over theory in order to maximize efficiency and bring about the desired goal while expending the smallest possible amount of resources (especially time.)

[1]

You can read up on the other function in the link I've provided. The descriptions are simple and easy to understand.

So beautiful! Why are you able to explain stuff like this! Not fair!

Because he spends so much time studying "stuff like this". You should know the amount of effort he's put in to understand it all.

I suggest following his steps if you care to learn.

 

[Odyne]

And to remain relevant, this is Fe from the same source:

Fe, or extroverted Feeling is dominant for ExFJ, secondary for IxFJ, tertiary for ExTP and inferior for IxTP. It is an attitude that encourages adherence to the ethics of the cultural/social/familial groups we feel emotionally connected to. Fe leads you to derive your moral viewpoints from some sort of externalized consensus. This doesn't mean you automatically fall in line with whatever moral viewpoints happen to surround you, just that (unlike the accompanying Ti view on logic as something you don't need external input to understand) you don't see how ethics can be decided reasonably without some sort of external context. (Fe views ethics as dependent upon collective consensus in the same way Te views logic/impersonal ideas.)

Fe leads people to adjust, hide or set aside entirely their own emotions in favor of fitting the emotional needs of the broader groups that are important to them. This leads to a certain respect for the common consensus among those important groups regarding interpersonal behavior and treatment of others. If you were to criticize someone's behavior from an Fe standpoint, it would be from the standpoint of, "Your behavior is inconsistent with the group's standards--most people would consider it wrong or inappropriate." Fe appeals to the collective morality of the whole; the fact that "most people would agree" serves as externally objective evidence to support Fe's moral standpoints.

People with strong Fe are typically good at saying just the right thing that fits in with the moral expectations of the audience. For this reason Fe tends to make great politicans because strong Fe users often make outstanding, charismatic public speakers who can play off the emotions of others to rally groups toward the desired cause. They are excellent at organizing, leading and delegating tasks to others with an interpersonal style that gets the job done while still appearing socially appropriate and respecting the emotional needs of others (so long as those needs are reasonable within the group's objective framework of ethics.) They understand how to perform the social/cultural responsibilities expected of them and they expect others to do the same, and if you're not fulfilling these responsibilities they're very good at appealing to the crowd to deliberately make you look like an asshole in front of everyone. ("Look everyone, this guy doesn't fit with our collective moral ideals!")

Fe considers it paramount to show overt displays of loyalty to the people in the groups it feels connected to, which includes helping out friends/family whenever possible and receiving similar displays of loyalty in return. (If these displays are not reciprocated Fe may take this as a sign that the other person is not loyal.) Fe tends to see Fi users as selfish for refusing to adapt their feelings to the feelings of others in service of the good of the larger group, and for ignoring objective standards on ethics in favor of purely personal ones.

The whole idea behind Ms. Manners is very Fe--Fi would wonder why anyone cares about any external consensus on ethics, because to Fi ethics are purely subjective. Fe is concerned with adjusting to the ethical standards as established objectively by the groups it feels are important.

 

[Bird]

And to remain relevant, this is Fe from the same source:

Can you provide source links for all you've provided?
I ask not to be facetious but because I'd like to know
more, especially about those who penned these.

 

[This]

[MENTION=1579]Odyne[/MENTION], I'm a little confused. That definition of Te seems to imply that a Te user couldn't be for example religious or spiritual? is that correct or is there something else at play?

 

[Peppermint]

Can you provide source links for all you've provided?
I ask not to be facetious but because I'd like to know
more, especially about those who penned these.

simulatedworld

 

[Bird]

simulatedworld

That's what I thought.

*goes to lurk Pern*

 

[Limit]

Expand.

Would you go so far as to say withdraw from society to limit conflict be an indicator of poor Fe?

How about the "devil may care attitude"?

Not exactly. It depends on the perspective you want to look at it with.

For instance, an Extraverted Feeler may have developed the primary defense mechanisms of isolation and intellectualization (Type 5 on the enneagram) where the ego of the former represses the thought but not the feeling, while the latter represses the feeling but not the thought. These decisions causes the ego starts to compartmentalize times, periods, feelings, thoughts, etc. in an attempt to repress, remove, cover up, etc. any complexes from the consciousness. This can become a strenuous process so the ego attempts to control what comes into the stream of consciousness by removing itself from possibilities. This may lead to an avarice, replenishing it with particular information, materials, or people.

For example, I know an INFJ 5 who is very lonely. She doesn

 

[Saru Inc]

No. Fe is morals and ethics that are derived from the environment and the collective (or the group).

It has absolutely nothing to do with expressing feeling externally. I can still lash out on you (outwardly expression) because your views don't fit with my values (Fi).

Thats not what I was referring to.

 

[Odyne]

[MENTION=2926]Bird[/MENTION], I already did include a link to the source:

[1]

[MENTION=1579]Odyne[/MENTION], I'm a little confused. That definition of Te seems to imply that a Te user couldn't be for example religious or spiritual? is that correct or is there something else at play?

Without generalizing here, some ENTJs aren't that religious or spiritual although they understand religion and theological systems pretty well. Some are quite religious although religion may not provide any evidence to support what it preaches, as religion makes up most of their value system and defines the inferior Fi.

Same with all other types who may or may not be spiritual. Religion and spirituality tie into deeper psychological factors than simple cognitive functions and I don't want to reinforce the stigma that T users have no soul, and F users have no brain.

Keep in mind that the description is isolating the function from the rest and treating it as an extreme to put its nature into a clearer perspective.