Justify not being vegan. | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

Justify not being vegan.

Discussion in 'History, Travel, and Culture' started by zetturn, Aug 10, 2018.

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  1. Reason

    Reason Fool in love

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    I'll be serious for just a second before I go back to silliness:

    Be vegan, don't be vegan, I don't give a damn. Pick your poison, pay your price I think that's fair for all of us.
     
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    JennyDaniella Stargazer

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  3. Reason

    Reason Fool in love

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    I'm actually on a specialized/highly controlled diet myself:

    I only eat veal that's been cooked by child soldiers. The children's tears salt the baby cow meat to perfection :yum:
     
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  4. Nautilidae

    Nautilidae Community Member

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    I agree with you very much about personal choice. My stance from the begining has been one of inclusion, not universality or exclusion. All eggs (no joke intended) in one basket in terms of human life modes isn't a wise choice. This is why I celebrate the choice people have to chose their diets according to their needs. Far from being anti-vegan, I would fight against any anti-vegan stance, esp. if it was sought via legislation. And I hold this opinion based on the empirical evidence of a species that has existed and thrived from fledgeling to massive civilizations based on choice, diverse diets, broad spectrum contact with bacterial cultures and viral infections, etc. I'm open to continued research and certainly interested in minimization of meat consumption overall.
     
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  5. Nautilidae

    Nautilidae Community Member

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    The thing about layperson science articles is that, they are written for ad revenue regardless of the completeness of science's research into the matter.
    And since every interest group is its own market... https://qz.com/1131428/if-the-entire-us-went-vegan-itd-be-a-public-health-disaster/

    It's still a matter of evolutionary history vs. culturally compelling argument with no multi-generaltional proof at scale minus escape route.
     
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  6. Tin Man

    Tin Man "a respectable amount of screaming"

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    Hm, well there are plenty of arguments for not going vegan. A lot of vegan diets are grain based. Which leads to a lot of suffering to insects and small rodents. Also, plants have a type of sentience, one that's very different from humans, but it's there.
    That said, I think it's still good to try to do something that will bring less pain. The show The Good Place really highlights that no matter what we do, our actions will always cause some pain. That it's impossible to live a life that doesn't cause a ripple effect. But despite this, it's still worth trying.

    It's why I've started to go more the vegetarian route. Even though I know this choice won't necessarily do much on a grand scale, I still want to try.
     
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  7. niar

    niar Regular Poster

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    For the majority of us non vegans I think it's much more urgent to access and be more eclectic of one's source of meat -grass fed, farm only- and the unnatural amounts of meat we eat, rather than trying to adopt a diet that has little dietary basis and has little to offer beyond a moral high horse.
     
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  8. Nautilidae

    Nautilidae Community Member

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    I could definitely get behind a zero torture policy for both ethical and health reasons. Every cow should have a Wagyu life.
     
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  9. niar

    niar Regular Poster

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    I'm very lucky to live by farms and have access to high quality meat. I've seen my grandma axe chickens since I was a kid, and never felt much remorse for them. They have twenty acres of land to roam around, which allows for a very balanced diet, and quality of life. I eat supermarket free range chicken sometimes for certain recipes that requires the meat to be more tender, but not often, and certainly not eggs. They smell weird and can't compare to the rich flavour of our eggs.
     
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  10. StRoNgO

    StRoNgO Community Member

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    .....Balanced diet is key, i have nothing against vegans, but a person needs protein from an animal source. we do not possess the enzymes to break down vegies to the point of receiving all of the vital nutrients we need on a daily basis. how ever.......more vegies the better, especially consumed with a healthy nut oil of your liking. What people need to stay the Hell away from is Sugar!! simple sugar! that is the root cause of all our health problems today. from Cancer......to heart desease.....to digestive issues......diabetes ect.....even Alzheimer's believe it or not.
     
  11. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    But what is the point of being vegetarian/vegan if I do not get to feel morally superior to omnivores and remind them of it at every opportunity? :p

    Serious questions: how has being vegetarian/vegan been for you? Was it ever challenging, or did you ever have a hard time maintaining it? What does your diet mostly look like?
     
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  12. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    <3 Faye.

    I began a vegetarian in the 80s. I didn't know any other vegetarians, and I'd never heard of Peta or any other organization or spokesperson. I also grew up in small, conservative hell hole where anyone who wasn't a white, Catholic male suffered, so being vegetarian wasn't something I was going to be open about, and there were more important (human rights related) issues to worry about. It took dedication, but I also never thought it was "difficult". It was something I always wanted to be and started asking to be when I was little. My mother brought stacks of information on nutrition home from the hospital where she worked, and I already knew how to cook, so I just learned vegetarian recipes. My mother was extremely against me doing anything that would hurt my chances of marrying well, and my dad was more accepting and helped me experiment with recipes, which are some of my fondest family memories.

    When I moved to the city (thank the gods!) I met another vegetarian. We shared the same birthday, worked at the same place, and went to the same college, so of course she became my bestie. She became vegan a few years before I did, but I was stubborn about giving up dairy. (My job was making desserts, so giving up dairy was not in my best interest.) I finally ran out of excuses. Turning vegan was difficult. I got a different job, and I had to train myself to stop craving foods I'd relied on. There still weren't that many vegan foods, and the ones that existed were usually terrible. Hahahaha. We cooked from scratch, and I went decades without having some foods. Being vegan now is easy. The options are endless. There are so many vegan nutritionists, body builders, athletes, spokespeople, sources for recipes and health, etc, that you really have to have a paper bag over your head, and deliberately avoid learning nutrition and health, to be bad at veganism. I still know people who do it wrong, and that's mostly because they don't put the effort in. You just need to learn new habits, then it becomes part of your nature and you're fine.

    Mostly, I eat "whole" foods, not mock meat and other packaged/processed foods. I make my own "cheese". I try to put as many proteins on the plate as possible. For example, I'll serve quinoa, plus grilled tempeh or tofu, plus sprouted legumes or nuts, so there are three proteins in one meal. I follow the rule about serving veggies in a variety of colors. I keep a mental check list of what I've eaten throughout the week, so I know where I need to pick up the slack. Of course I eat tons of hummus. LOL! And beans and rice – super inexpensive and a complete protein. I eat a lot of raw veggies, even if I'm not fond of all of them, and during the summer I grow a lot of our food. A (non-vegan) chef friend taught me about their ancient grains, their nutritional value, and how to cook them. Don't get me wrong. If you bring any sweet junk food into the house I will eat all of it in one sitting.

    The only annoying/hard part is that so many omnis have their heads up their asses about it and won't shut up or stop picking on us. I've been bullied, and listened to rants and misinformation about my personal life choice for decades, and sometimes it has been over the top. People have caused huge scenes and been very disrespectful and rude. I had a chef make fun of me in front of the entire dining room for ordering the veggie option on his menu, and I've had guys turn very predatory when they learn how "clean" I am because I'm vegan and straight edge, or because they learn I'm in my late 40s, when they thought I was 28. I can't make it through a meal with some family and friends without them still saying something snide, even after over 30 years. People need to calm down about other people's life choices that don't affect them. Go eat your own food and stop concerning yourself with my meal. I do support the end of inhumane food practices that cause animal suffering. I have a lot of chef friends who are open and helpful about my choice, and I have a rule that I will never discuss inhumane food practices with them, which they have respect for. They understand why I'd be against foie gras, but like me because I don't bring it up. For chefs, food is art. Some of my chef friends (who, yes, cook meat) are in relationships with vegans. My SO is an omni. We can coexist.

    As a vegan and punk, I know a lot of hard core animal rights activists, including some famous ones. For the most part, they are still fairly quiet about it in public. They don't pester people, or even post about it on social media unless they've just achieved a goal. I imagine being 'notorious' for something makes people want to be low-key. There are also the first fervor and 'loud and proud' vegans, Fellow vegans think they are just as annoying as omnis do. They are in our faces, rude, obnoxious, say we're not "real vegans" because we don't picket outside companies, flyer, or whatever. They're elitists. I've even seen them pick on people who've made careers of being animal rights activists and do more for animals than picketing ever will. I don't think this kind of irritating personality is exclusive to veganism. They give veganism a bad name, but anyone like that gives what they believe in a bad name. I hope people can see that people like that don't represent the entire group.
     
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  13. Cornerstone

    Cornerstone Well-known member

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    I can't, really. I don't claim to be right, just that I've got smaller fish to fry than animal rights which is waaay down my list of priorities. Whenever I see a video of animals acting intelligently or emotionally, I do think 'I should probably stop eating them', especially monkeys. Things like milk and eggs though would probably take some kind of road to Damascus moment for me and, since I've barely made good on the one I have already had, probably not even then.
     
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