"Just" having a conversation.
- Thread starter WaterOx
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I feel that it's snobbish to look down upon some conversations as being in some way of less value because they are not somehow 'deep and meaningful'. Conversations are interactions between two human beings and sometimes may have little to do with the topic of the conversation. Many people like to reach out to others through verbal communications of all kinds and it means something to them to just be interacting somehow and the topic hardly matters. I understand that. Some topics may be difficult for me to focus on for long because they bore me but I still try to listen and interact as a courtesy to another human being. I like to make them feel heard, even when I can't wait to switch the topic. If a topic really bores me I will curtail the conversation much sooner than if it interests me, actually if it interests me I can talk about it for a very long time (people say I either have nothing to say or too much to say).
I find I dont talk that much. I stand and listen most of the time. People have come to love me without ever really knowing me.
I guess its a good thing I can tolerate myself as it appears I will be alone one way or the other for a good portion of my life.
I guess its a good thing I can tolerate myself as it appears I will be alone one way or the other for a good portion of my life.
Very interesting thread this is developing into!
The reason I brought this up has a lot to do with the Ni/Ti closed loop. I wasn't referring to small talk, per se (although it could be!) but ANY talk, really. Talking about ideas, Te, puts a large burden on INFJs, in my view. The introverted world has such an integral structure that is so alive and complete (or we'd like to think so) that to "JUST talk" about it is practically an invasion.
The reason I brought this up has a lot to do with the Ni/Ti closed loop. I wasn't referring to small talk, per se (although it could be!) but ANY talk, really. Talking about ideas, Te, puts a large burden on INFJs, in my view. The introverted world has such an integral structure that is so alive and complete (or we'd like to think so) that to "JUST talk" about it is practically an invasion.
Perhaps I've misunderstood something. Can you please explain to me why you attribute 'talking about ideas' to being just a Te thing?
I understand why someone who is suppressing their Fe might have a hard time interacting with people as Fe is the THE connect-on-any-level function (think the stereotypical IXTP with inferior Fe and how often they belly-ache about nonessential human interaction) but I have a hard time wrapping my head around where lack of Te factors into it. INFJs don't need Te because Fe is their extroverted judging function. If they're suppressing Fe, suppressing Fe is the problem.
Unless you mean that sometimes they have a hard time expressing their ideas concisely?
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Not the mere act of talking about ideas but rather how ideas and words are perceived by different people.
As far as I understand, Te is much more akin to "brainstorming and problem solving" whereas Ti is going to have an integral thought process that is integrated, organized and basically "locked away".
So a person with Te might be much more open to discussing ideas than someone with Ti. But if you factor in Ni then the internal worldview gets even more profound.
So when someone says something to me, for example a suggestion, and I do not see that suggestion as fitting into my already constructed worldview- I have a hard time entertaining it. To which the person might reply "well it was just an idea"......and for some reason that statement is very difficult to grasp. I believe it's because of that very tight Ni/Ti. The idea either fits or it does not.
As far as I understand, Te is much more akin to "brainstorming and problem solving" whereas Ti is going to have an integral thought process that is integrated, organized and basically "locked away".
So a person with Te might be much more open to discussing ideas than someone with Ti. But if you factor in Ni then the internal worldview gets even more profound.
So when someone says something to me, for example a suggestion, and I do not see that suggestion as fitting into my already constructed worldview- I have a hard time entertaining it. To which the person might reply "well it was just an idea"......and for some reason that statement is very difficult to grasp. I believe it's because of that very tight Ni/Ti. The idea either fits or it does not.
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Mmm, what you describe sounds like an N thing, actually.
I thought about the types that use Te versus the ones that use Ti and there are some glaring exceptions to the rule. Take INTPs and ENTPs for example. They're dominant and auxiliary Ti, respectively, and they're definitely big idea people. They love to brainstorm and while idle chit-chat doesn't interest them, an unusual thought or theory gets their motor running. The same thing happens with INFPs and ENFPs.
Ni users may not be all that big on brainstorming, but they're no dummies in following along with a train of thought. They see the system and how things fit together. Where would their specialty in pattern-spotting be if they weren't into being exposed to different systems and ideas?
It's usually the S types that have less patience for the less tangible and theoretical.
I think I figured out my main hangup with this, after thinking about it for a while.
What bugs me the most is when people talk about something that they don't seem interested in. That totally comes across in the tone of conversation.
I believe that this is where I got my idea that some people just want to say words. There's a certain kind of small talk which is just really kind of dead feeling, because the person doing the talking doesn't appear to be interested in what they are talking about. I find that hard to deal with. I don't need conversation to be deep, but please at least let me think that you are interested in what you're talking about.
What bugs me the most is when people talk about something that they don't seem interested in. That totally comes across in the tone of conversation.
I believe that this is where I got my idea that some people just want to say words. There's a certain kind of small talk which is just really kind of dead feeling, because the person doing the talking doesn't appear to be interested in what they are talking about. I find that hard to deal with. I don't need conversation to be deep, but please at least let me think that you are interested in what you're talking about.
Yes maybe it is predominantly an Ni vs Ne thing? That actually makes more sense although I still wonder if our Ti doesn't make our Ni more closed. Hmm now I must go think
And sprinkles, I hear you loud and clear on this. One helpful eye opener from mbti is it really is possible for some to JUST want to talk, regardless of the words. It's absurd to us but hey, some of us JUST like to think so go figure
And sprinkles, I hear you loud and clear on this. One helpful eye opener from mbti is it really is possible for some to JUST want to talk, regardless of the words. It's absurd to us but hey, some of us JUST like to think so go figure
Yes maybe it is predominantly an Ni vs Ne thing? That actually makes more sense although I still wonder if our Ti doesn't make our Ni more closed. Hmm now I must go think
Hmm. Chalking it up to Ni versus Ne still wouldn't really explain the differences. At least, not in the INFJ. I'm not sure what you mean by 'Ti making Ni' more closed. Ti and Ni do not interact.
But anyway, I was thinking about this, and MBTI-wise, a couple of things were bothering me. Namely, your earlier suggestion that 'the introverted world has such an integral structure that is so alive and complete (or we'd like to think so) that to "JUST talk" about it is practically an invasion.' This suggest that all introverts would be closed off to discussing ideas and concepts. I do not think this is true. Certain types are perhaps, ah, set in their ways and do not welcome unsolicited critique or outside input when their mind is made up about something. However, where INFJs are concerned, this is definitely not the case.
INFJs use Ni and Fe. Ni is theoretical, pattern-oriented. Fe is about connection, expression, harmony. This brings together a most unique balance and openness to expression and sharing. Indeed INFJs are known to be the 'most extroverted introverts' and this is primarily because of their Fe wing-man. They need outside help to build their inner world. It's not as 'complete' as your comment suggests.
Furthermore, the idea of 'just talking' wouldn't be all that foreign to those with Fe. Consider the types with dominant Fe versus those with inferior Fe to see how this is prioritized in the stack. Types like ENFJ, ESFJ and ISFJ are known for their social niceties and knowing the right thing to say; they are often criticized for being insincere and pithy because they are so quick to say what's needed rather than expressing their own feelings. INFJs are no different.
Dominant and auxiliary Fe makes one more able to adjust to the needs and preferences of the group. For INFJ, their extroverted functions are proof in the pudding: Fe and Se. They're malleable. If the group is talking ideas, INFJ will talk ideas. If the group is just shooting the breeze, the INFJ will shoot the breeze. They do it automatically, without complaint or difficulty as they don't have the same sense of self as say, someone who uses Fi (Fi-types are WAY more particular. That, and Ni gives INFJs an edge in that they can quickly grasp and understand ideas and Fe helps them see the holistic big picture, so they can easily follow along. Once they get more comfortable with their Ti, INFJs simply become better at articulating their own ideas in a group discussion.
Some food for thought.
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I don't mind casual conversation at all. In the same vein of TDHT's comment above about INFJs being socially malleable, I don't need to be personally invested in a person, idea, or topic to find enjoyment in small talk and chatter. It opens up social circles, brings people together, and is stress-free. Sometimes its what folks need to relax and become more comfortable, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Outside of work, school, and my closest friends, I'm hermitish and even I enjoy disengaging from theoretical constructs and analysis find lighter fare. You can meet some amazing people from it, too. Openmindedness = win.
Outside of work, school, and my closest friends, I'm hermitish and even I enjoy disengaging from theoretical constructs and analysis find lighter fare. You can meet some amazing people from it, too. Openmindedness = win.
Did anyone else notice how the original poster put his type as "Infj" completely skipping any other system of capitalization such as acronyms? Careful you don't stomp on his feels too hard else we might have another pseudo intellectual on our hands. And what terrible mess that is when they start progressing the discussion toward the notion of "but words are made up and imaginary".
Now if anyone wishes to take up such a foolish notion then I have a solution for you! You can volunteer to make new words by whipping their utterances out of you. Lets see what pitches those vocal cords can hit and fine tune a new dialect out of the inhumane screams of raw unfiltered emotion. Just imagine if Jack the Ripper wrote Webster's dictionary!
Now if anyone wishes to take up such a foolish notion then I have a solution for you! You can volunteer to make new words by whipping their utterances out of you. Lets see what pitches those vocal cords can hit and fine tune a new dialect out of the inhumane screams of raw unfiltered emotion. Just imagine if Jack the Ripper wrote Webster's dictionary!
The functions are organized in the stack the way they are for a reason. Introverted functions require extroverted functions to express their findings, and vice versa. Two introverted functions would loop on themselves because both function similarly (that is they converge in their conclusions).
In other words, there wouldn't be anything for Ti to break down. Ti interacts with the conclusions of Ni only as they are interpreted/expressed through Fe.
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