Jesus is pleated and other schizotypal thoughts.

[GracieRuth]

If you read that part, youd realize it supersedes the old testament where it wants you to kill, or whatever other loophole you'll find.

This is a leeeeetle off topic, but I just want to point out that it can't "supercede" the "old testament" if it is FOUND in the "old testament." BDrother J just basically summarized the Torah with the same two laws that ALL rabbis will use to summarize the Torah. In fact, given that every Jewish man prays the Shema (Hear O Israel) twice a day, you could say that Jesus' answer was, "You idiot, DUH, its what you pray every day."

 

[GracieRuth]

the British handed it over to the "white jews" from Europe and America.

How did you get out of my iggy bin?

 

[GracieRuth]

I've returned from my computer being down to find my thread hijacked by hostile "new atheists" who want to abuse the opportunity to rag on religion. That is NOT what this thread is about. Again, the thread assumes religion is beneficial. The thread also assumes that there are schizotypal influences in religion. The question is, are these schizotypal influences part of the beneficial nature of religion, or is religion beneificial IN SPITE OF these schizotypal influences.

 

[Apone]

^
Maybe you should have chosen a different title?

I'm not sure if 'beneficial' is the kind of word that's going to produce an objective discussion, assuming that that's what you were after-- I prefer the original post's word 'successful'.

In terms of its appeal-- I do think that people are drawn in by the schizophrenic 'aesthetic', and that its effects that have traditionally been associated with the 'spiritual'… ego-death, oceanic consciousness, a sense of cosmic harmony, euphoria, heaven/hell etc… but on the other hand, there are all kinds of problems that pop up when people begin to revere these ideas as if there must be a holy, consistent logic involved. The notion of Jesus being pleated seems to suggest a lot of unspoken mental connections, connections which are dependent upon a lot of personal, unconscious, and highly idiosyncratic associations that combined at that exact moment… but outside of that particular individual's brain at that particular moment, don't hold very much weight.

On the other hand, contemplation of the obscure, or the unknowable, or the profoundly suggestive can be a humbling experience and can help to develop your imagination or confront/re-examine/re-evaluate your beliefs, provided you're not dismissive… which has to be a good thing… so yeah, taken as answerless riddles or koans, these kinds of things are good thought exercises-- it's always fun to try to think of connections between things… sort of like that 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon game.

 

[Kmal]

On the other hand, contemplation of the obscure, or the unknowable, or the profoundly suggestive can be a humbling experience and can help to develop your imagination or confront/re-examine/re-evaluate your beliefs, provided you're not dismissive… which has to be a good thing… so yeah, taken as answerless riddles or koans, these kinds of things are good thought exercises-- it's always fun to try to think of connections between things… sort of like that 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon game.

You think there are things here we will never figure out?

This is a leeeeetle off topic, but I just want to point out that it can't "supercede" the "old testament" if it is FOUND in the "old testament." BDrother J just basically summarized the Torah with the same two laws that ALL rabbis will use to summarize the Torah. In fact, given that every Jewish man prays the Shema (Hear O Israel) twice a day, you could say that Jesus' answer was, "You idiot, DUH, its what you pray every day."

Poor delivery by me, but discrimination and murder is hardly a loving act. Where in the OT does it condone that like some are quick to point out? edit: Found it,

You dont think people were acting moral when they rode into the New World and enslaved Africans and NA's? They truly believed they had a right to do such things because it was blessed by the Church and the bible speaks often of violence and hurting and killing "heathens"

 

[muir]

My friend, THIS I must reply directly to. Mental illness is real, and it's living hell. If you've never dealt with psychosis personally, thank G-d above. For those of us, myself included, who HAVE dealt with psychosis, we thank G-d for the meds, because however imperfect they may be, they are on occasion our only relief from the screaming.

I am not saying that mental illness is not real and i'm sure it is a iving hell

What i'm saying.....and please take a moment to consider this.....is that mental health is not always a genetic issue nor is it due to some inate defect in a person. Sure sometimes it is physiological......but a lot of the time mental health is related to peoples emotional state

What i am saying about modern psychaitry is that it has a tendencay to ignore the emotional side of people, thereby invalidating their emotional response to whatever they are going through in their life and instead it relies on drugs to calm the symptoms shown by a person in distress

The other point i have made is that i don't think we live in a very balanced or healthy culture at the moment so MANY people are feeling anxious.......now that doesn't mean that they all have a genetic defect it means that they are living in a shitty culture

 

[muir]

Hey muir:

We've had our run-ins before, and I know that neither of us means anything personal by them. It's always nice to know I have a friend in the forum who may disagree with a lot of what I say, but who still wishes me the very best.

I'm not going to reply in a lot of detail, as I think nothing would be accomplished. Your series of posts tend to illustrate the very point I am trying to make. You are obviously sane, but at the same time, your arguments are not quite rational -- you mix good points with bad points.

Essentially, you are basically making a sound argument that Sapolsky has patrons such as the Rockefellers. I don't have photographic memory, but I know he has received awards and grants from a great many sources -- that's what scientists do. It is perfectly normal for various foundations, non-profits, and various patrons to finance research they consider important.

But you don't stop there. You carry it to a paranoid extreme. I can't follow you there.

I'm not sure what possible link you were making between Sapolsky and the Nazis -- Sapolsky is a Jew, raised orthodox. Although he is now an atheist, I seriously doubt he has a pleasant opinion of Nazis.

You're absolutely right in that i have nothing personal against you and that i wish you well

Yes i am saying scientists have patrons. That is just one way in which the elite can cherry pick what science gets put out there....another way is by controlling publishing houses and publications so that they can choose what information or research hets published

If Sapolsky is not a practicisng jew then he is not jewish.....unless you see being a jew as an ethnic thing (which i don't)

He's an atheist...you say? Well i seriously doubt that any of his rich patrons are practicing jews either!

The link i made with the nazis is something you can easily check for yourself. The link was between Sapolskys rich patrons and the nazis NOT between sapolsky and the nazis

Before dismissing me as 'paranoid' please look up the wikipedia page on Chase Manhatten bank to read about how it helped the nazis. You can read about how other US bankers such as Prescott Bush also helped the nazis if you read his wikipedia page

 

[muir]

@GracieRuth

Have you noticed that a lot of people on this forum post about their jobs a lot? Sometimes they are not sure about what to do

I was the same when i was younger....i also didn't know anything about MBTI. What i did feel was that there was something wrong with our culture and our economic system. I agonised about how i was going to fit into the capitalist schema....it took me a while to figure things out

I think that on some level a lot of people feel like something is wrong with the world but they can't consciously grasp what it is. I think that they try to fit into the consumer culture and often do what they believe is expected of them but on some level they feel like something is not right. That tension between what they are seeing around them and what they are feeling inside is cognitive dissonance and that sometimes manifests itself in poor mental health

A mental healthcare professional once put it to me that a lot of mental health issues are related to anxiety and when there is too much anxiety this turns to mania

that same person described the cognitive dissonance idea to me in the following way:

Have you seen the Kubrick film Space Odessy 2001? In that there is a computer called HAL. HAL is actually shorthand for IBM as the letters H-A-L are all the letters before the letters I-B-M in the alphabet.

So anyway HAL is programmed to help the humans on the space ship it is on and to keep them safe. However part of the way through the space mission HAL is sent new instructions from high command. These new instructions would require HAL to put the human crews life in danger so they go against HALs basic programming. As a result cognitive dissonance builds up in HAL so that he becomes increasingly paranoid to the point where he becomes dangerous to the crew and they have to shut him down

I believe that same tension exists in many people in todays society

If you think about how humans have evolved over 200,000 years they evolved to live in small closs knit communities where there was always support and no one went hungry or without shelter. Relatively recently in the human experience we have seen the creation of capitalism which has seen the break down of community and the exchange of cooperation for competition.

I think this current system of competition and consumerism and atomisation is not natural for humans and that to live in it creates a lot of cognitive dissonance for many people

So why does such an unnatural system persist? It persists because an elite benefit from its existence and they invest a lot of money, time and effort into keeping it the way it is. they do this by violently stamping down on anyone who questions it but also by trying to convince people that there realy is only one way of organising things.

They mould peoples perceptions of reality through the media and throught the education system so that people are presented with a particular perception of reality.

This perception of reality is crystalised by the media and education so that people come to believe it but on some level they feel that something is not right and the cognitive dissonance builds because they are not listening to the feedback they are getting from their unconscious mind

the elite have spotted that many of the peoples mentalhealth is failing and that threatens their consumer suystem because they need those people to work and consume so they have created drugs to stop the flow of energy from the unconscious mind to the conscious mind (serotonin uptake inhibitors) but these don't always manage to hold back the negative energies which is why people have recurring bouts of mental illness

Adam Curtis made a great documentary about this you can watch online called 'The Century of the Self' he alsomade another one called 'The Trap'...he's a well respected BBC journalist


Its my belief that it is about time that we all re-assessed how well our current culture and economic system is serving us especially with all the economic turmoil. By this i don't just mean serving us materially i mean how healthy is it for us mentally and physically?

Religion is often missused by the elites. For example we are told by people who are interpreting the bible literally that there was a man 2000 years ago who actually walked across water.

They do this because they know that if they can bend peoples minds to that sort of fairytale reality then they will be able to tell them anything and they will believe it. George Orwell called this act of mental acrobatics 'doublethink' in his cautionary tale '1984'

So i hope this sheds a little light on why i focus on the elites a lot......because a lot of the distress that i feel coming through from peoples posts i feel often stems back to this cognitive dissonance caused by a system that is upheld by a knowing elite. i feel that once someone becomes consciously aware of what is happening by grasping the true reality then they bring their conscious perception of reality into alignment with their inner voice (which has been telling them that something is just not right) and this releases the cognitive dissonance

I'm not a 'conspiracy nut', i'm not 'crazy' or 'paranoid' and by helping people to see through the false matrix of perceptions weaved by the elite i am helping them to align themselves internally so that they can then make informed choices which in turn will enable them to align themselves outwardly in their life as well

In short i'm not just banging on about 'conspiracies' for the sake of it.....i know exactly what i am doing. if you ever think anything i'm saying is really outlandish then why not research it for yourself?

What i have found again and again while trying to shatter false perceptions is that i clash with left brained dominant people. These are people who feel that they are absolutely correct in their materialist view because they are parroting what they have been told in the educational system or from the corporate media.....but what they are failing to understand is that the elites have a coherent policy of pushing a right brained way of thinking on people because they know this stops people looking within or trying to open up communciation with their unconcscious mind

Again and again i am insulted and ridiculed by right brained dominanst who arrogantly think they are right becuase they think they have the weight of consensus opinion behind them, but they are failing to realise that the 'consensus' has been manufactured by people who have an agenda of control and that by shutting off their minds to new possibilities and pushing out left brained opinions aggressively on people they are not only doing the work of the elites but they are also helping to keep society imbalanced and cognitive dissonance high within the populace

They are directly contributing to the crystalisation of the matrix of false perceptions which is the very source of many peoples uneasiness/malaise/anxiety/cognitive dissonance etc

 

[Kmal]

I've returned from my computer being down to find my thread hijacked by hostile "new atheists" who want to abuse the opportunity to rag on religion. That is NOT what this thread is about. Again, the thread assumes religion is beneficial. The thread also assumes that there are schizotypal influences in religion. The question is, are these schizotypal influences part of the beneficial nature of religion, or is religion beneificial IN SPITE OF these schizotypal influences.

Very good question. I say yes. Essentially, schizotypal people are people whose personality deems them to see the reasons behind things, as this is their primary mode of function. Couple this with anxiety manifested through the muscles and the body to the personality, you have a paranoid, sometimes weird schizotypal 'patient' who may actually believe an evil spirit is haunting them at all times or something horribly anxiety inducing in their imagination. The treatment for a lot of PDs is just plain symptom masking medicine, which can be very relieving, sometimes so much so that it fixes the body's problem whereever it. I saw my anxiety problem as through my muscles being tensed up first, not originating from my imagination- schizotypal people may see it as originating from the imagination and that leaves open infinite hell, but also heaven. Schizotypals can convince themselves of basically anything, so why not let them, and encourage them, to think good things?

This type of self convincing is not exclusive to only schizotypals (unless you want it to be ), and I think that is what the Bible plays on.

People with classic schizotypal personalities are apt to be loners. They feel extremely anxious in social situations, but they're likely to blame their social failings on others. They view themselves as alien or outcast, and this isolation causes pain as they avoid relationships and the outside world.People with schizotypal personalities may ramble oddly and endlessly during a conversation. They may dress in peculiar ways and have very strange ways of viewing the world around them. Often they believe in unusual ideas, such as the powers of ESP or a sixth sense. At times, they believe they can magically influence people's thoughts, actions and emotions.
In adolescence, signs of a schizotypal personality may begin as an increased interest in solitary activities or a high level of social anxiety. The child may be an underperformer in school or appear socially out-of-step with peers, and as a result often becomes the subject of bullying or teasing.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/schizotypal-personality-disorder/DS00830/DSECTION=symptoms