Is the term chemical lobotomy sensationalism?

[Darc]

Hey, I've just heard this this term branded around a bit, but I'd you knew the history of psychiatry and looked at the long standing history and perception and how such a thing could be likened and compared, but is it such a case or true? There's definitely still some controversial, fraudulent and very money motivated behaviour in the psychiatry industry, but is it still all for not?


I was just wondering, I have of course dabbled with psyche drugs such bit, and such terms and popular sayings have me worried about, as well as some contradictory and speculative information floating around out there..


What do others here think? Yay or nay?


Is the comparison at all merited Oris it just sensationalism, and over exaggeration?


The psyche industry and big pharmacy is still a business and very lucrative industry after all, they've been known to hire lobbyists here and there, so it just makes me wonder.

I've heard that they do effect or have something to do with the frontal lobe, and then the coincidental sexual side effects and weird things like brain shocks only have me wondering....


Trying to be as non-biased as possible, looking for others to do the same..

 

[Faye]

Your post prompted me to read this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201603/chemical-lobotomy

Seems correct. As someone who has been medicated into oblivion in the past, I find the term apt. Whats worse is that people will guilt trip you if you opt to go off of the drugs because the 'chemical imbalance' narrative has been so effectively propagated. Like you are being irresponsible if you do not want to be a medicated zombie.

That is not to say that the drugs should not be used. They have tremendous benefit for some people and are the reason why we do not have such horrific mental wards like they did a century ago. But throwing anti-depressant and anti-anxiety meds at everyone and then adding in things like anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers, transcranial magnetic stimulation, and electroconvulsive therapy when those do not work seems misguided. Obviously it is nowhere near as brutal as drilling a hole in someones head, but it is still bad.

The other really bad thing about all this is that so many therapists will insist that their patients also go to a psychiatrist to be medicated, warning them that they will not get better if they do not go. It really narrows a persons options if they do want to challenge life circumstances that can cause depression and anxiety.

 

[Darc]

Your post prompted me to read this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201603/chemical-lobotomy

Seems correct. As someone who has been medicated into oblivion in the past, I find the term apt. Whats worse is that people will guilt trip you if you opt to go off of the drugs because the 'chemical imbalance' narrative has been so effectively propagated. Like you are being irresponsible if you do not want to be a medicated zombie.

That is not to say that the drugs should not be used. They have tremendous benefit for some people and are the reason why we do not have such horrific mental wards like they did a century ago. But throwing anti-depressant and anti-anxiety meds at everyone and then adding in things like anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers, transcranial magnetic stimulation, and electroconvulsive therapy when those do not work seems misguided. Obviously it is nowhere near as brutal as drilling a hole in someones head, but it is still bad.

The other really bad thing about all this is that so many therapists will insist that their patients also go to a psychiatrist to be medicated, warning them that they will not get better if they do not go. It really narrows a persons options if they do want to challenge life circumstances that can cause depression and anxiety.

Oh hey thanks that was a very insightful post and I really appreciate taking the time to reply...


When you say apt though, do you mean honestly as a long term lasting effective either that or just send general description or perhaps summary of the experience and sensation of taking them.


Do you think the long term effects are all the same? I've been taking wellbutrin on and off, a really small almost comparison to a child's type dose, and it has helped me over a slump when I really needed it and I wonder if anything else would have at this point. But, I stopped taking them a few tines because of the sexual side effects starting to rear their ugly head, and as well I felt like they were starting to slow me down too much but they helped stabilize me and take the edge off and feel more relaxed which I greatly enjoy...

It's just,mimic not sure if it's worse it anymore, but it's easier to deal with the lows and bad spurts of anxiety. But it's just, it makes me almost too complacent so I don't know...

It slows my mind down quite a bit, I am usually quite sharp, but not as much with these, oddly enough though in some ways I am accepted a bit more, but then I'm not as super smiley and stuff, which honestly I don't really like, plus I almost feel a bit too on cloud 9 too much of the time.

 

[Darc]

Yeah so I can't believe it, I stopped taking them for a couple of days,n then yesterday, I took it again to see and it actually made me more slowed down and everything. It helped number my senses a bit, but it's just something I have to keep learning to live with it I suppose...

I also struggle with this on going what I would describe as like a knot, or Chinese finger knot in a way, it keeps moving back and fourth but I cant quite escape it, it's like this constant tension or inner turmoil. I also feel like my senses are not as keen or sharp and I actually kind of socially innaprioate or oaf ish and now I see what's going on socially much clearer. But in a way, I felt bad about this because it was like low level socially anxiety or something and I feel like it makes me seem more timid and mefkish as I have been told but really it's because I am not very extroverted or have a sharp penetrating energy. Sometimes it feels so hard to get along with other people because it feels like they seek so much from the external world and they get frustrated because I don't give it to them as much. It sort of makes me feel like I can't get along with most people out there because of this...

 

[Faye]

@Darc

I mean both. However, it definitely varies depending on what you are taking and the dosage. What you are doing with low dose Wellbutrin sounds like responsible psychiatry to me. Does not mean it doesn't have an effect (as you described), but these things vary in degree.

When I think of being lobotomized (both in how it makes one feel and the long term effects), I think of my past experience being on very high doses of several different medications at once. I was a zombie, could barely think or feel, and when I told my psychiatrist I didn't feel much different he would only up the dose. Then he told me I would have to be on them for many years to alter my brain chemistry or something. So the effect is numbing, but the way they are used- at such high doses for so long, might have some lasting effects that are quite scary.

Kind of confused by your chinese finger knot. That sounds like one of the basic problems of social interaction. IDK what to say.

 

[Darc]

@Darc

I mean both. However, it definitely varies depending on what you are taking and the dosage. What you are doing with low dose Wellbutrin sounds like responsible psychiatry to me. Does not mean it doesn't have an effect (as you described), but these things vary in degree.

When I think of being lobotomized (both in how it makes one feel and the long term effects), I think of my past experience being on very high doses of several different medications at once. I was a zombie, could barely think or feel, and when I told my psychiatrist I didn't feel much different he would only up the dose. Then he told me I would have to be on them for many years to alter my brain chemistry or something. So the effect is numbing, but the way they are used- at such high doses for so long, might have some lasting effects that are quite scary.

Kind of confused by your chinese finger knot. That sounds like one of the basic problems of social interaction. IDK what to say.

Well I mean do you personally that you do not think that inner feelings have any warranty or are perhaps am illusion of some sort?

Do you feel you struggle with any serious long term side effects then

 

[Faye]

Well I mean do you personally that you do not think that inner feelings have any warranty or are perhaps am illusion of some sort?

Do you feel you struggle with any serious long term side effects then

I do not think they are an illusion. The correspond to some reality- the question is how well they match up to what is actually happening. That could just be my experience struggling with them though.

Yes, I have serious long term side effects in large part from taking high doses of anti-depressants so long. I cannot say whether they impacted my brain significantly, i.e. permanently altered neuro pathways or whatever, since I do not know how I would be if I had not taken them how I did.

What I do know is that I am much more depressed now than I would have been if I had confronted my issues in the past. The drugs functioned as a means of avoiding the problems, but they did not get rid of the problems. Instead, the pushed things even further away and made them more painful. As a result, they made the problems much worse than they would have been if I had just confronted things back then. Its sort of like if someone stuck a knife in you and you were bleeding out and instead of taking the knife out and getting bandaged they just kept giving you pain meds while you were bleeding. When you do finally get around to taking the knife out and bandaging up the wound, you've lost more blood and are weaker than you would have been otherwise.

I bled out for years- metaphorically speaking. I do not think psychiatric meds have to be this way. If used in lower to moderate dosages while the person confronts their issues, it seems possible that its a different story. The problem is many therapists and psychiatrists are not interested in confronting issues. They are comfortable taking peoples money and keeping people dependent (I am kind of cynical).

 

[Darc]

I do not think they are an illusion. The correspond to some reality- the question is how well they match up to what is actually happening. That could just be my experience struggling with them though.

Yes, I have serious long term side effects in large part from taking high doses of anti-depressants so long. I cannot say whether they impacted my brain significantly, i.e. permanently altered neuro pathways or whatever, since I do not know how I would be if I had not taken them how I did.

What I do know is that I am much more depressed now than I would have been if I had confronted my issues in the past. The drugs functioned as a means of avoiding the problems, but they did not get rid of the problems. Instead, the pushed things even further away and made them more painful. As a result, they made the problems much worse than they would have been if I had just confronted things back then. Its sort of like if someone stuck a knife in you and you were bleeding out and instead of taking the knife out and getting bandaged they just kept giving you pain meds while you were bleeding. When you do finally get around to taking the knife out and bandaging up the wound, you've lost more blood and are weaker than you would have been otherwise.

I bled out for years- metaphorically speaking. I do not think psychiatric meds have to be this way. If used in lower to moderate dosages while the person confronts their issues, it seems possible that its a different story. The problem is many therapists and psychiatrists are not interested in confronting issues. They are comfortable taking peoples money and keeping people dependent (I am kind of cynical).

Yeah I've had a lot of negative experiences with psyche drugs and I had given up on them altogether, and saw the field as not being too far removed from quackery and being quite inefficient if not all together motivated more by profits, the popularity of drug use and quick fixes it provides then really helping people.

I found one that had not very many side effects and I was going through a period where I felt really down and unmotivated for a variety of reasons or what have you. I decided to take a low dose because I had read this in one article criticizing psychiatry, that the prescribed doses are often way too high. Honestly even though they stopped working that well on me, they really provided me with much needed reprieve from my mental and emotional problems altogether, but also get into a better situation in life which was the cause of me feeling so bad. Unfortunately I have decided that just drinking beer, smoking weed and exercising etc seems to be better alternatives.


Wellbutrin is scary because the chemical profile is so similar to cochise and even amphetamines...


Unfortunately, I feel depressed a lot due to social, political issues that aren't easily solvable and understood as well which only adds to it, no one wants to discuss or do anything about it. It's like in the Wizard of Oz, everyone knows there's someone behind the curtain secretly pulling the strings but yet seemingly the illusion is enough for them to be contented by. This causes a lot of rage, and deep sadness within me though.