Inviting open insecurities in deep relationships

[slant]

This was an interesting discussion going on in another thread but it wasn't the main topic of that thread so I thought we might have a conversation about it.

I think that one aspect of all deep relationships that I've had is the ability to openly share my insecurities with the other person involved and understand that they were going to accept me and love me anyway even if they didn't agree with my insecurities or approve of them- they understood and accepted them as part of the package.

In many books about intimacy and how to create closer bonds this is a central topic. How do we say things that might hurt another person's feelings but need to be said? How do we open up and confess something we're not proud of, or tell somebody something that if they wanted to they could use against us to really hurt us? This is vulnerability and it's the building blocks of trust and closeness.

I see defensiveness a lot when a relationship starts to get deeper. We don't know other people's "trigger" topics and when the person seems to go from 0 to 10 out of nowhere, because we have not seen this behavior before we get scared and sometimes mistake an opportunity to get closer as a sign to run away.

I think one of the best ways to diffuse defensiveness is to understand what's causing it. Most of us "test" other people as they get closer on an unconscious level to make sure that they will not hurt us and that they are worthy of our trust. One of the biggest tests is to see how somebody might react to you showing an uncomfortable feeling- be it anger or strong upset- to see if they will try to resolve the issue or if they react and don't see beneath it.

This is not to say that these situations, if they become abusive, are ok. But that there is a healthy level of conflict that is involved in the process of getting closer to other people and the question is, how do we cultivate the awareness to notice when this is happening?

I think by recognizing our own insecurities and triggers we can better control our own desire to dash to defensiveness if somebody we are close to touches on one of them, usually accidently. And also being able to see patterns when other people react bigger than usual and what those topics are so we can understand there is emotional importance to that topic for that person that we don't understand, and that if we're patient maybe they'll tell us about it.

How do you feel about this concept, does it make sense, do you view it differently?

If you agree with some of the premises, how do you foster vulnerability and openness in your closer relationships? What have you learned from your experiences?

 

[David54]

I'll put myself out there. Letting the other know what my issues and triggers are. If they care about me, they will tread lightly on these issues.
Such as my ptsd and it's related things..put me in a threat situation and watch the storm start. It's not them, it's me..I get it, but I need them to understand and not get weird about it. Or become judgemental. I know it's my stuff, but I'm a package deal

 

[April]

"How do we say things that might hurt another person's feelings but need to be said? How do we open up and confess something we're not proud of, or tell somebody something that if they wanted to they could use against us to really hurt us? This is vulnerability and it's the building blocks of trust and closeness."

1) I do it with all the love and understanding and acceptance I can muster, and let them know it's okay to be imperfect, to have flaws, and that even though I want to help them overcome these things, I love them just the way they are.

2) I do it because if I don't, they will never truly know the real me. Taking a chance to be hurt is worth it when you find someone you can truly trust in that journey. Sure you might get hurt with others, but that person/friend/lover/ whoever they are is completely worth it. Or people, if you're lucky enough to find more than one kindred soul. <3

"I think one of the best ways to diffuse defensiveness is to understand what's causing it. Most of us "test" other people as they get closer on an unconscious level to make sure that they will not hurt us and that they are worthy of our trust. One of the biggest tests is to see how somebody might react to you showing an uncomfortable feeling- be it anger or strong upset- to see if they will try to resolve the issue or if they react and don't see beneath it."

Spot on, Slant. Just beautiful

 

[Jonah Caan]

I agree and the weird thing is that I was kind of thinking about this today.

I was remembering how I used to be, how closed off I was from other people. Now I realise it was because I was scared of being hurt, but at the time I didn’t even realise how much distance I was keeping from people.

My parents and a loved one still managed to break my heart though even though I had my defences up haha. But that pain is what made me transition from a boy’s mentality to a man’s I think. That fear of opening up was making sure I just about survived; it stopped me from feeling alive.

What I realised is that in life I needed to lean on people. Some would move away and let me fall, but others, very few, embraced me when I leaned on them when I was at my worst and weakest.

Time is the ultimate thing we have been given here, and although it was painful and embarrassing and so on when some people let me fall, Im grateful that I will never waste a moment on them and now know who to spend that time with in life.

But saying that, there is still a fear in me, because I tend to attract narcissists, who are geniuses in getting close to someone only to hook them in and learn their deepest insecurities, which they can then use at will to control them. This is one thing I’m still working on, the vampires are hard to spot for me haha.

Other than that, above the fear of getting hurt by others, we should remind ourselves of how little time we have in this life.

I may have digresses a bit Slant, sorry. I guess we shouldn’t overthink it and just get out there and lean on people, let them lean on us and just live

Ps. What made me think about how I used to be (closed off and so on) is running into my best friend today. We saw each other after about 3 weeks and we were so happy to see each-other. He had tears in his eyes and it really hit me haha. I’ve known him all my life but it made me see our friendship had become a lot more deeper over the last few years, and I realised that a lot of it was because I opened up to him more, and he did the same as a result.

 

[slant]

I agree and the weird thing is that I was kind of thinking about this today.

I was remembering how I used to be, how closed off I was from other people. Now I realise it was because I was scared of being hurt, but at the time I didn’t even realise how much distance I was keeping from people.

My parents and a loved one still managed to break my heart though even though I had my defences up haha. But that pain is what made me transition from a boy’s mentality to a man’s I think. That fear of opening up was making sure I just about survived; it stopped me from feeling alive.

What I realised is that in life I needed to lean on people. Some would move away and let me fall, but others, very few, embraced me when I leaned on them when I was at my worst and weakest.

Time is the ultimate thing we have been given here, and although it was painful and embarrassing and so on when some people let me fall, Im grateful that I will never waste a moment on them and now know who to spend that time with in life.

But saying that, there is still a fear in me, because I tend to attract narcissists, who are geniuses in getting close to someone only to hook them in and learn their deepest insecurities, which they can then use at will to control them. This is one thing I’m still working on, the vampires are hard to spot for me haha.

Other than that, above the fear of getting hurt by others, we should remind ourselves of how little time we have in this life.

I may have digresses a bit Slant, sorry. I guess we shouldn’t overthink it and just get out there and lean on people, let them lean on us and just live

Ps. What made me think about how I used to be (closed off and so on) is running into my best friend today. We saw each other after about 3 weeks and we were so happy to see each-other. He had tears in his eyes and it really hit me haha. I’ve known him all my life but it made me see our friendship had become a lot more deeper over the last few years, and I realised that a lot of it was because I opened up to him more, and he did the same as a result.

The only thing I would push back on is that "narcissists" aren't actually a type of person but a set of behavior and typically the reason for the behavior, ironically, is the fear of getting close to somebody and getting hurt by it so the person might try to entrap somebody in a relationship or friendship using manipulation because on a fundamental level they do not believe they are worthy of love and that their only shot at being loved is to do this to make somebody stay, which, sadly, prevents them from ever being loved the way they want. So when you find this is happening you can realize you are just dealing with an insecure person who has learned unhealthy coping mechanisms. I personally have had narcissistic behavior but it's not out of the desire to hurt others or because I think I'm better- it's actually the opposite, that I feel threatened so I lash out. It's not healthy but it's also not something that is inherent in a person's personality. It is a pattern of behavior that can be changed if the person gains awareness of their inner self and decides they do not want to behave that way anymore.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

This is a good topic but can't help feel jaded that when people already struggle with emotions going that much deeper is a sure way to make them cut and run especially these days. I still struggle to grasp that friendships and relationships in society can be so disposable these days where no one really tries anymore always preferring the quick and easy but with none of the things that really matters that make such last. I often end up thinking that there is more to it that on some deeper level people don't want this kind of depth or that it is not in the nature so like others often end up feeling out of place like the world passed us by without there having been a chance.

 

[slant]

This is a good topic but can't help feel jaded that when people already struggle with emotions going that much deeper is a sure way to make them cut and run especially these days. I still struggle to grasp that friendships and relationships in society can be so disposable these days where no one really tries anymore always preferring the quick and easy but with none of the things that really matters that make such last. I often end up thinking that there is more to it that on some deeper level people don't want this kind of depth or that it is not in the nature so like others often end up feeling out of place like the world passed us by without there having been a chance.

I hear this a lot from a lot of people that I connect with (that's what I call it, connecting, which is any deeper type of relationship.) I felt this way before I found the open mic community, where art is all about vulnerability and putting yourself out there so that really taught me a lot and allowed me to feel comfortable seeing others be vulnerable and being vulnerable myself, even in front of an audience.

The only thing that will change this feeling is finding a community/group of people where you feel you belong. The older we get the harder it is. But for as much as you feel this way, there are at least thousands of people who think and feel similarly to you out in the world. The trick is finding each other. Statistically that can be difficult unless you find a setting where people like you tend to congregate and then the chances go up dramatically. So we have to find the places where we can find people like us. This forum being one of them but it also exists in the real world you just have to find it.

 

[April]

This is a good topic but can't help feel jaded that when people already struggle with emotions going that much deeper is a sure way to make them cut and run especially these days. I still struggle to grasp that friendships and relationships in society can be so disposable these days where no one really tries anymore always preferring the quick and easy but with none of the things that really matters that make such last. I often end up thinking that there is more to it that on some deeper level people don't want this kind of depth or that it is not in the nature so like others often end up feeling out of place like the world passed us by without there having been a chance.

I feel the same. Going through life wondering what the fuck was wrong with me that nobody really tried to be close to me, they just wanted to stay on the surface, it was devastatingly cruel to my self worth. For the most part, I convinced myself this was okay, but deep down, I craved a deeper connection with someone. Hell, anyone. But it turns out that people don't like complicated minds. They often find it to be contradictory or "fake". They don't like too much intensity or passion. They just didn't like me enough to try. Or they *couldn't* understand enough to know how. Edit: this is without me changing who I was to suit them, I mean. Though I tried that, too!

I would find myself screaming internally, at the universe in desperation, "Please! Just send me a fucking friend!!! A real one!" For so many years, it went unanswered. I think now maybe there are a couple people I can say that I may have found the friend/friends I was begging for. Time will tell. <3 But for now, it just feels good to have people try and succeed where others have not.

I hope that you find this in your life. I hope mine stay. Without them I would still be lost, I think.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

I feel the same. Going through life wondering what the fuck was wrong with me that nobody really tried to be close to me, they just wanted to stay on the surface, it was devastatingly cruel to my self worth. For the most part, I convinced myself this was okay, but deep down, I craved a deeper connection with someone. Hell, anyone. But it turns out that people don't like complicated minds. They often find it to be contradictory or "fake". They don't like too much intensity or passion. They just didn't like me enough to try. Or they *couldn't* understand enough to know how. Edit: this is without me changing who I was to suit them, I mean. Though I tried that, too!

I would find myself screaming internally, at the universe in desperation, "Please! Just send me a fucking friend!!! A real one!" For so many years, it went unanswered. I think now maybe there are a couple people I can say that I may have found the friend/friends I was begging for. Time will tell. <3 But for now, it just feels good to have people try and succeed where others have not.

I hope that you find this in your life. I hope mine stay. Without them I would still be lost, I think.

For me it made for a root of bitterness towards society where one has to basically be a cardboard cutout in order to have place much less be accepted and the compulsory conformity where the real person is either masked or worse ceases to exist has made so very angry times past.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

I hear this a lot from a lot of people that I connect with (that's what I call it, connecting, which is any deeper type of relationship.) I felt this way before I found the open mic community, where art is all about vulnerability and putting yourself out there so that really taught me a lot and allowed me to feel comfortable seeing others be vulnerable and being vulnerable myself, even in front of an audience.

The only thing that will change this feeling is finding a community/group of people where you feel you belong. The older we get the harder it is. But for as much as you feel this way, there are at least thousands of people who think and feel similarly to you out in the world. The trick is finding each other. Statistically that can be difficult unless you find a setting where people like you tend to congregate and then the chances go up dramatically. So we have to find the places where we can find people like us. This forum being one of them but it also exists in the real world you just have to find it.

I can't help but think and feel that society is to blame for this as there are so many out there trying without much in the way of positive results. Really does feel like the rules of the game changed from what some of us were designed for on a spiritual level vs what has become the norm so where before it wasn't so hard but now the tables have flipped so everyone has to be an NPC otherwise not exist.

 

[April]

For me it made for a root of bitterness towards society where one has to basically be a cardboard cutout in order to have place much less be accepted and the compulsory conformity where the real person is either masked or worse ceases to exist has made so very angry times past.

Believe me. I know. *hugs*

I have been there. Actually, I still am sometimes, because to be quite frank, I find it hard to believe that what *is* will last. I'm so happy that my friends are patient, because boy am I cynical and I hesitate to believe that something is actually in front of me. But that is because I have demons. My only teacher is my past, and there is 36 years of it. Bitterness and cynicism will take time to overcome, but hey, listen to me.

We can do it. You can do it. I can do it. We just have to focus on what is good in this life. I don't care if it's only the comfort of your pillow, or the sun on your skin. There is beauty to find, if you look. <3

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Believe me. I know. *hugs*

I have been there. Actually, I still am sometimes, because to be quite frank, I find it hard to believe that what *is* will last. I'm so happy that my friends are patient, because boy am I cynical and I hesitate to believe that something is actually in front of me. But that is because I have demons. My only teacher is my past, and there is 36 years of it. Bitterness and cynicism will take time to overcome, but hey, listen to me.

We can do it. You can do it. I can do it. We just have to focus on what is good in this life. I don't care if it's only the comfort of your pillow, or the sun on your skin. There is beauty to find, if you look. <3

Yea but what a wait it all is, for me I found hope that hopefully there will be good chances in some other life and that I like so many have to learn to wait till either things improve or for some other life to make up for having missed out. As for flaws that does hold me back as it does others but at least I've been responsible so thankfully haven't made any big mistakes.

 

[slant]

I can't help but think and feel that society is to blame for this as there are so many out there trying without much in the way of positive results. Really does feel like the rules of the game changed from what some of us were designed for on a spiritual level vs what has become the norm so where before it wasn't so hard but now the tables have flipped so everyone has to be an NPC otherwise not exist.

The less "common" you are the harder it is to find other less "common" people and I don't think that's a problem a society can solve. People who are similar group together and when genetics more than likely produce like-minded people if you are not part of the majority naturally you just have to try harder. Is it fair? Definitely not. But the only solution that has ever been instituted on a societal level is trying to eradicate the "common" people out of frustration of the "uncommon" people. I get your gripes/pain though and it's valid. I just don't think it's a problem that can ever be solved, and it's nobody's fault but maybe statistical likelihood. I guess when we get into genetic engineering people will take out all "defects" and diversity that makes people feel different and lonely, so everyone will be the same and non-sameness eliminated. Also the idea of joining everybody's brain through chips in the brain to create a borg like consciousness is another way to eliminate the problem of differentness. In my view though I think we should preserve diversity and the cost of that is having to feel misunderstood and alienated at times but that is better than getting rid of people who aren't the same.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

The less "common" you are the harder it is to find other less "common" people and I don't think that's a problem a society can solve. People who are similar group together and when genetics more than likely produce like-minded people if you are not part of the majority naturally you just have to try harder. Is it fair? Definitely not. But the only solution that has ever been instituted on a societal level is trying to eradicate the "common" people out of frustration of the "uncommon" people. I get your gripes/pain though and it's valid. I just don't think it's a problem that can ever be solved, and it's nobody's fault but maybe statistical likelihood. I guess when we get into genetic engineering people will take out all "defects" and diversity that makes people feel different and lonely, so everyone will be the same and non-sameness eliminated. Also the idea of joining everybody's brain through chips in the brain to create a borg like consciousness is another way to eliminate the problem of differentness. In my view though I think we should preserve diversity and the cost of that is having to feel misunderstood and alienated at times but that is better than getting rid of people who aren't the same.

Eugenics is a dead end even though it can solve some problems in the short term the problems it can create are next to impossible to reverse especially when this over long enough time scale for which there is no return beyond some point. Lastly for history sake the past century did some pretty dark things in the name of science ect. As for not being cut from the same block as the rest of the population don't have to say it twice as it hurts on an daily bases.

 

[slant]

Eugenics is a dead end even though it can solve some problems in the short term the problems it can create are next to impossible to reverse especially when this over long enough time scale for which there is no return beyond some point. Lastly for history sake the past century did some pretty dark things in the name of science ect. As for not being cut from the same block as the rest of the population don't have to say it twice as it hurts on an daily bases.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rub anything in. Fair enough.

 

[Pin]

I thought this thread was about inviting "deep" insecurities in "open" relationships.

Not a swinger thread, I see.

rub anything in.

I'm not the only one with the dirty mind.

 

[April]

Pin lol

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Sorry, I didn't mean to rub anything in. Fair enough.

Don't fret it lol, to be honest I spend a crazy amount of time thinking about this and recognizing such differences in others when they are different themselves vs the rest of the population. Those who struggle trying to make it all work much less make it in society have my sympathies. I've really made bit of hobby on the spiritual side of it trying to figure this stuff out so there is that lol.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

I thought this thread was about inviting "deep" insecurities in "open" relationships.

Not a swinger thread, I see.

I'm not the only one with the dirty mind.

Someone must have put some of that lockdown time to good use lol. It is a dirty world we're all living in

 

[Infjente]

I've learned it's not a good idea for me to fully open up to someone close to me. If I have to do it, I need to remind myself to have realistic expectations for how it's being received and what the other person does with it. I used to think that opening up and being completely vulnerable was a natural part of any relationship (like, what's the point if not?), but now I see it differently. When I go into the mental state where I need to be in order to access these insecurities, I basically become a child. Defenseless, irrational, directionless, helpless. Like a child, I have no other choice but to trust the other person to protect me, to be sensitive and cautious, and to guide me through it safely. But since I'm not a child, another adult will not treat me as one, and if they're not trained professionals (or my mom), chances are they won't recognize the vulnerable state I'm in, and they will hurt me. Since I'm still a child in that moment, I will react like one, which will cause a reaction from the other person that's probably even less suitable for "a child". In therapeutic relationships, they call this transference and countertransference, I think.

My last relationship was with an ENFP who was also a clinical psychologist. I felt very seen and very safe, so opening up was almost effortless. He felt seen and safe too, and did the same. That became a disaster, because we basically became "children" at the same time. The danger of entering this ultra vulnerable state (the more you trust, the more vulnerable you can allow yourself to be), is that you can get stuck there. If the one you trusted to protect you, breaks that trust, you have to get out of there with the navigation skills of a child. That happened to the both of us, and it has taken years to get back to where we were before this happened.

I know I'm prone to trusting people who I feel seen by, or people I idealiz, with my inner feelings and thoughts. But I've learned that I must be very mindful about placing unreasonable responsibility on them, and of my expectations for them to recognize the level of vulnerability.