INTP: the Ideal Type?

[knight in battle]

Typelogic suggests that INTPs are mutual Advisor types for INFJ, which I definitely find true with my INTP friend. But what I find is that there is far more than just an advisory relation.

A Socionics description of a similar type (INTp) suggests that there is a "spiritual" connection between an INTp and INFj. (I'm INFj and 91% INFp). While the INTp (my Benefactor relation) has the upper hand in this typological relationship (I'm the one always trying to please him), I see that there is a particular bond that I have developed with him that seems even greater than the bond with my most ideal bond with the ESTj friend (Dual type). I talk more with my Dual type by text message but I am physically more comfortable with my Benefactor type. I wonder why this is.

Duniho suggests that INTPs are actually the ideal type for me. (cf. Relationship Type Combinations, Vicky Jo Varner). This would explain the strong bond that I have with him and that we can spend so many hours together at one time.

 

[Quiet]

INTP is definately the type I feel most comfortable around and find easiest to communicate with. Personally I think its because the emotions and feelings of most others can seem overwhelming to me sometimes. When I interact with an INTP the communication feels a lot more easy and pure, I dont feel bombarded with their irrational thoughts, layers of emotions and hidden motives. Of all the types Ive met they seem to value honest communication very highly. They seem willing to engage others to learn and communicate rather than just push their agenda, be manipulative and defend themselves. I think INJF and INTP are very compatible and similar in many ways. Enough similarities and differences for a healthy and well balanced relationship. I relate to the INTP personality type as well. I value ti very highly as I think Im always seeking to develop it in myself better.

I can kind of see the mutual advisor aspect of the relationship.
The beneficiary/benefactor relations I find intriguing but dont undertand well enough. Maybe i do put INTPs on a pedestal and ingratiate myself to them. I dont know. How embarassing.

 

[knight in battle]

@Asarya

I think the "ingratiating" has less to do with my being impressed than by the childlike Fe. With that same cuddly childlikeness comes their "denial" of need for intimacy. Sometimes, it is he who practically demands that I hang out with him, and curious enough, I am one of those who actually want to hang out with him on a frequent basis. He lets me close.

I do have another INTP friend, but he is less developed in Fe, I believe, and doesn't do much to reach out to me. I surprised myself when I made so many regular attempts to reach out to him when we were in class together. Because our regular interaction is reduced to zero, the trust level has decreased dramatically to the point of not asking him to hang out. I wonder sometimes why he decided to add me to his facebook if he doesn't care to hang out or interact.

 

[Quiet]

@Asarya

I think the "ingratiating" has less to do with my being impressed than by the childlike Fe. With that same cuddly childlikeness comes their "denial" of need for intimacy. Sometimes, it is he who practically demands that I hang out with him, and curious enough, I am one of those who actually want to hang out with him on a frequent basis. He lets me close.

I do have another INTP friend, but he is less developed in Fe, I believe, and doesn't do much to reach out to me. I surprised myself when I made so many regular attempts to reach out to him when we were in class together. Because our regular interaction is reduced to zero, the trust level has decreased dramatically to the point of not asking him to hang out. I wonder sometimes why he decided to add me to his facebook if he doesn't care to hang out or interact.

Interesting observation. I will have to pay more attention to my next interaction. I think I know what you mean by the childlike Fe.

Thinking about it more, I think that maybe I ingratiate myself to INTPs because I actually really like them. I love all people, but I dont 'like' many. There are not many people that I truly enjoy spending time with and Im quite happy to be independant and alone. When I find someone I like I go out of my way to nurture the bond and understand the connection. I'm very picky about my friends and the people who I choose to have in my life. Life is too short for compromising personal relationships. In most instances I actively seek and cultivate the friendships that I want.

Also, maybe Im unduly impressed by ti. I work so hard to develop it better in myself that I am very impressed when people use it naturally with minimal effort. One of the hardest things things in life for me is finding people I can brainstorm, discuss, theorise and philosophise with. These are some of my favourite things to do and INTPs seem very willing to do that with me, unlike most other people.
So I think when i find them I try to keep them around.
I can be naturally very warm and sometimes overly affectionate with my friends, and I think that the high Fe-ish behavior would seem very ingratiating to types with Fe lower in their functional stack.

 

[Trifoilum]

.....Wait, the way in which you put your words into, and the source of information you have, seems..

.....too narrow.

-Do- remember that personality aspects are broader than MBTI? For instance, there's Enneagram. As as you'd mentioned above; socionics. Then comes zodiac, Chinese zodiacs, elements, etc etc etc..

 

[anterior]

is there really a good bond between infx and estj>?

 

[Trifoilum]

is there really a good bond between infx and estj>?

If you ask me?
The percentage will be bigger from the more the INFx and the ESTJ have compatible beliefs / way of doing things / methods / perspective. Then the result will be one of mutual respect. (pinging [MENTION=5145]AKM[/MENTION] for this one)

There is also a benefactor - benefited relationship, which can only work if the INFX can stand idly behind the ESTJ and, the upper aspect aside, does not disagree with the ESTJ's methods and beliefs. I can speak for this one; the moment you start doubting the ESTJ's actions is the moment the relationship will inevitably fall.

There's also a caretaker - cared relationship, which can work if the INFX in question has stronger personality / charisma than the ESTJ.
But the latter two's healthiness really depends on the perspective.

 

[gps]

.....Wait, the way in which you put your words into, and the source of information you have, seems..

.....too narrow.

-Do- remember that personality aspects are broader than MBTI?
For instance, there's Enneagram.
As as you'd mentioned above; socionics.
Then comes zodiac, Chinese zodiacs, elements, etc etc etc..

But then you'd need an INTP to finger that all out for you ... wouldn't you?
How about INTP also testing as enneagram 5w4, socionics LII, Cancer-Monkey, Week of the Empath?

It's all kinda word salad in the end, isn't it?
It's wonderful having nice things atrributed to me categorically vis-a-vis any given category.
However it's not so nice living up -- or down -- to stereotypes.

To wit, I have an Irish surname and spent some time in the navy.
Every duty station I went to found me experiencing, "A ____van, eh? We've had a few of them here."
They expected me to drink beer, chase whores, get in fights, and attend Catholic mass on Sundays.
I remember meeting more than a few categorical `blacks' with Irish surnames and they didn't get the same treatment as they were categorically `black' where I was categorically `Irish' -- never having stepped foot in Ireland.
After mustering out of the navy and while attending college I heard a story on the news where Mohamed Ali was receiving an award in Ireland.
Come to find out his father's father emigrated from the same county in Ireland as my father's father did.
And he's 1/4 Irish exactly the same way as I am; on his paternal grandfather's side.
Now when my Irishness is mentioned I respond with `I'm as Irish as Mohamed Ali'.

The thought of an INTP being qua BEING `ideal' for a person with any given MBTI type gives me the willies.
I'm right here, right now ... and that's about the extent of my rightness or idealness from my perspective.

 

[Trifoilum]

It's all kinda word salad in the end, isn't it?
It's wonderful having nice things atrributed to me categorically vis-a-vis any given category.
However it's not so nice living up -- or down -- to stereotypes.

True. The keyword is describing, not pegging. Nor is it molding.
The word salad might have explained things a bit, actually -- IF and only if you take ALL points together, and merge it, and still leave some room for cultural differences, personal differences, and mental masks.
I think reading or attributing, in particular, is different from stereotyping. Although it can and sure has overlapped. As someone who reads a lot of people according to the MBTI types and ennea, it's proper to say I've been guilty to this.
It's when the certainty of predicting the future has become too much, that it starts to stereotype.
A lesson I have to learn my limits on. ANYWAY.

To wit, I have an Irish surname and spent some time in the navy.
Every duty station I went to found me experiencing, "A ____van, eh? We've had a few of them here."
They expected me to drink beer, chase whores, get in fights, and attend Catholic mass on Sundays.
I remember meeting more than a few categorical `blacks' with Irish surnames and they didn't get the same treatment as they were categorically `black' where I was categorically `Irish' -- never having stepped foot in Ireland.

That's the science of stereotype, unfortunately.

It is perhaps best to look at it -historically-; in those stations you'd been into.... How many Irish are ...the kind of person you'd described?
It's annoying indeed, but if you had consistent proofs, is it any wonder that people are quicker to assume the rules, and be as quick in applying the rules?
(even if the correlation might be very blurry and unclear, like in this one. For another instance; MBTI are -supposed- to be more defined than say, skin color, or heritage, or family name, or gender, yet we know from life that it's rarely the case.)

Hence why exposure is important in combating stereotypes. To break the rules, you have to hit often, or hit HARD.

After mustering out of the navy and while attending college I heard a story on the news where Mohamed Ali was receiving an award in Ireland.
Come to find out his father's father emigrated from the same county in Ireland as my father's father did.
And he's 1/4 Irish exactly the same way as I am; on his paternal grandfather's side.
Now when my Irishness is mentioned I respond with `I'm as Irish as Mohamed Ali'.

Now this is awesome, though.

The thought of an INTP being qua BEING `ideal' for a person with any given MBTI type gives me the willies.
I'm right here, right now ... and that's about the extent of my rightness or idealness from my perspective.

In a way, the word being used; 'ideal', which implies certain level of certainty, does affect the reception. There are lots of threads asking about INTPs / a type's compatibility with INFJs, but none drew a lot of ire like these ones.

Thanks for opening my eye. I think what disturbed me so much about this is ...The setting of the road that lies ahead, from too little basis.
It's not exactly the reading that I'm concerned; it's the very personal core and yet very 'theoretical' voice, as if saying that the theory is true will make the person in question act like the theory in particular.
Oh, I wish it would be the case. I wish.

Of course, if I were to be wrong, I sincerely apologize to @knight in battle ,

However, if it were to be right, perhaps Would it be good to humbly advise you to rethink a bit about your mindset?

 

[knight in battle]

[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION]

Rethink my mindset??! :faint:

 

[buttercup]

I have had great experiences with INTPs. The ones I know have been very understanding and supportive and generally pleasant.

 

[knight in battle]

There is also a benefactor - benefited relationship, which can only work if the INFX can stand idly behind the ESTJ and, the upper aspect aside, does not disagree with the ESTJ's methods and beliefs. I can speak for this one; the moment you start doubting the ESTJ's actions is the moment the relationship will inevitably fall.

There's also a caretaker - cared relationship, which can work if the INFX in question has stronger personality / charisma than the ESTJ.
But the latter two's healthiness really depends on the perspective.

You hit the nail. This applies very well to my ESTJ. When I had a strong personality or when I was like the caretaker to him, he was impressed by me. But now that he's stronger in his planning, organizing, and practical skills, I see the benefactor-beneficiary relationship. I was definitely trailing "behind" him. Very unpleasant.

 

[AKM]

If you ask me?
The percentage will be bigger from the more the INFx and the ESTJ have compatible beliefs / way of doing things / methods / perspective. Then the result will be one of mutual respect. (pinging [MENTION=5145]AKM[/MENTION] for this one)

There is also a benefactor - benefited relationship, which can only work if the INFX can stand idly behind the ESTJ and, the upper aspect aside, does not disagree with the ESTJ's methods and beliefs. I can speak for this one; the moment you start doubting the ESTJ's actions is the moment the relationship will inevitably fall.

There's also a caretaker - cared relationship, which can work if the INFX in question has stronger personality / charisma than the ESTJ.
But the latter two's healthiness really depends on the perspective.

Yes, as an ESTJ wife to an INFJ husband, we do well when we share ideals. The ideals we don't share, when not immediately conflicting with ideals the other has, are usually fine, but can be difficult. WE've gone through stages where we've been somewhat caretaker/cared or benefactor/benfited and those were the more rocky parts of our relationship. It took a lot for both of us to get past these stages. We've been together 13 years (and living together most of that) and I think we are pretty happy

 

[Quiet]

But then you'd need an INTP to finger that all out for you ... wouldn't you?
How about INTP also testing as enneagram 5w4, socionics LII, Cancer-Monkey, Week of the Empath?

It's all kinda word salad in the end, isn't it?
It's wonderful having nice things atrributed to me categorically vis-a-vis any given category.
However it's not so nice living up -- or down -- to stereotypes.

To wit, I have an Irish surname and spent some time in the navy.
Every duty station I went to found me experiencing, "A ____van, eh? We've had a few of them here."
They expected me to drink beer, chase whores, get in fights, and attend Catholic mass on Sundays.
I remember meeting more than a few categorical `blacks' with Irish surnames and they didn't get the same treatment as they were categorically `black' where I was categorically `Irish' -- never having stepped foot in Ireland.
After mustering out of the navy and while attending college I heard a story on the news where Mohamed Ali was receiving an award in Ireland.
Come to find out his father's father emigrated from the same county in Ireland as my father's father did.
And he's 1/4 Irish exactly the same way as I am; on his paternal grandfather's side.
Now when my Irishness is mentioned I respond with `I'm as Irish as Mohamed Ali'.

The thought of an INTP being qua BEING `ideal' for a person with any given MBTI type gives me the willies.
I'm right here, right now ... and that's about the extent of my rightness or idealness from my perspective.

Cultural stereotypes are not helpful, and if anything completely inhibit our ability to actually see people and understand situations. Stereotypes are created and reinforced by people that are largely unware and ignorant of the reality and experience of others. When I see people use stereotypes to catergorise people I understand that they have had limited experience in dealing with that person and are probably unware of the complexity of the human experience.

What you mentioned about being stereotyped as Irish is very interesting but probably frustrating for you. I often have the same experience. I have a fairly ambigiuos physical look- in the sense that it is hard for people to acertain and pin point me to a particular ethnic group. As a result people often assign me to whatever group they personally think the way I look fits into and then they are confused and annoyed when I dont live up their expectations or fit into their preconcieved mould. It is also amusing though.

I think MBTI, and Jungs archetypes are deeper than most cultural steretypes. For me, they are more of a set of 'human archetypes'. These archetypes are played out differently depending on the individual, culture, environment and era in humanity. Two people within the same archetypal type may be similar in the way they experience/interact with their environment but also markedly different as individuals. The diversity, individual difference and possible mansifestation becomes clear when observing forums such the one we are now using. There is not a great deal of homegenity on this site among INFJs, although there are some similarities in the way that we percive and interact overall.

There is probably as much different between two individuals within the same type as there is between types. The same is true within and between population groups around the world.

In regards to INTP being an ideal type, I think that this is only in relation to INFJs. From my personal experience I have seen other types clash with INTPs and INTP certainly would not be the ideal for them. Each type has its preferred style of perception and interaction, none being ideal, just different. All types are fascinating and have strengths and weaknesses. As indivuals become more mature, type will probably become less relevant for them when interacting with others, although perhaps it will always be easier and more comfortable interacting with certain types.

Yes, as an ESTJ wife to an INFJ husband, we do well when we share ideals. The ideals we don't share, when not immediately conflicting with ideals the other has, are usually fine, but can be difficult. WE've gone through stages where we've been somewhat caretaker/cared or benefactor/benfited and those were the more rocky parts of our relationship. It took a lot for both of us to get past these stages. We've been together 13 years (and living together most of that) and I think we are pretty happy

The one INFJ I know in real life is married to an ESTJ. They are best friends and have a great relationship. Very different as people but very compatible with thing such as running a household and having a successful lifestyle and family. They dont seem to clash much. Sometimes the INFJ wishes she could have more intellectual conversation with her husband, sometimes the ESTJ wishes his wife was more organised and more practical. She has friends that she talks to when she needs to intellectualise and discuss things that he many not find interesting. And he seems to enjoy organising the household and life stuff and taking care of details. Overall its a great relationship though, that has lasted over 30 years. I really enjoy spending time with both of them, individually and together. It is a very happy home, one of my favourite places to be. They are both individually great people as well, some of my favourite people in the world. Im sure this has a lot to do with why their relationship is so successful.

I idealised the relationship somewhat when i was younger, and have always wanted to achieve that kind of friendship, support and comaptability in my own relationships. I can see the 'dual' factor here

I think there are many misconceptions about ESTJs that I have not personally experienced. I lived with an ESTJ flatmate for about 3 months and that was a fantastic experience. We got along really well, and we were also able to organise the home in a way that was easy and manageable. That is a huge weakness for me- remembering bills etc. She and I were able to work and live very well together. She was also lots of fun to go out with and a great listener. There was definately a permeable comfort in the relationship. The only thing I struggled with at first was personal space. She was more sociable than I, and I needed a lot more time to just be. It wasnt a hard problem to work out as she was always joining groups and commitees which ended up giving me extra space and time. I think its possible that such a problem could be exasperated in an intimate relationship though.

 

[Trifoilum]

@Trifoilum

Rethink my mindset??! :faint:

*laughs*well, it's an advice; from someone who didn't know you better, no less.

 

[technics]

Socionics description of a similar type (INTp) suggests that there is a "spiritual" connection between an INTp and INFj.

As far as I know, the Socionics INTp is the MBTI INTJ.