INFJ or INTJ?

[Zola]

Tailgating or any other passive-aggressive activity.
Ditto manipulation. That's why I say to be careful when you mirror.
Everything you do with Fe has to maintain a POSITIVE frame of mind. No negativity, or it quickly disintegrates, people flush you out, and you lose all credibility.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

@Headstorm a few more thoughts now I've gone through the thread. I worked as a middle manager in the Information Systems Dept of a large Pharma for several decades - I ran a variety of teams supporting our research scientists. I came across mbti in a amagement course over 20 years ago and emerged from the test on a dead tie INTP/J. The trouble is INFJs are chameleons and take on the flavour of the company they keep if its "magnetic force" is strong enough - and INTP/J was definitely well aligned with our corporate culture among the people I had most contact with. This is almost certainly confusing you in the same way and it isn't just on the tests - you probably identify with T closely when you read the text book descriptions too. There are several INFJ people in the forum who have very strong tertiary Ti and this can carry us a very long way in thinking it is secondary or primary. I wasn't comfortable originally about identifying with Fe, because it has been so sterotyped that I think it is presented in ways Jung would have disagreed with strongly. In particular, this stereotyping makes men hesitant in identifying with it. One of the reasons I joined the Forum earlier this year was to conciously explore using Fe in a "safe" environment, and I haven't looked back - it just felt so natural once I got used to it, and takes far less of my energy that the other ways I was dealing with the outside world. The interaction between Ni/Fe/Ti (and Se, glorious Se too) just seems to fit me like a glove - wish I'd known it 40 years ago *sigh*.
Anyway - an option for you is to try out consciously using Fe and Te within the forum and see how they fit. It's a pretty tolerant place as long as you don't explore the deepest darkest reaches

Dead on, John. This resonates with me a lot - the idea that we can repress our Fe out of a desire to be rational or logical, and then finding out about it is a huge unburdening.

I know when I took the test originally, I wanted to be a T, and then coming out INFJ instead just made so much sense that it was revelatory.

 

[Zola]

True that. An unburdening. So much effort to come across as a perfectly logical... robot.

 

[Wyote]

Dead on, John. This resonates with me a lot - the idea that we can repress our Fe out of a desire to be rational or logical, and then finding out about it is a huge unburdening.

I know when I took the test originally, I wanted to be a T, and then coming out INFJ instead just made so much sense that it was revelatory.

I think when I first got into it I "felt like" a T and so when I got F I read more into it and it made a lot of sense. The overall description of INFJ was what was most revelatory for me.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I think when I first got into it I "felt like" a T and so when I got F I read more into it and it made a lot of sense. The overall description of INFJ was what was most revelatory for me.

Same, brother.

I don't know how you found it, but part of the revelation was finding out that I 'wanted to be' a T; in other words it was like an ego imposition overlaid on the core self.

Edit: An then yeah, the overall descriptions were mindblowingly uncanny.

 

[John K]

The overall description of INFJ was what was most revelatory for me.

Same, brother.

I wonder how many people are mis-typed because of this. I had problems understanding Ni as well as identifying with Fe - I grasped the concept of Ti very easily but not Ni. Far too close to it to see it clearly. It was watching for my inferior that pressed the button and pushed me to Se and then to Ni. Seems odd with hindsight because it’s so obvious now, but I use Ti extensively to assess what I read and that’s not an easy way into experiencing what Ni means.

 

[Headstorm]

This is so funny. A revelation is what it is right now

It does something positive to me, thats for sure!

 

[Wyote]

I don't know how you found it, but part of the revelation was finding out that I 'wanted to be' a T; in other words it was like an ego imposition overlaid on the core self.

I was pretty young and didn't really have too strong attachment to the traits, it was more like "...oh right, this is why I have trouble being a "bro" RIP me" lol

 

[Wyote]

I use Ti extensively to assess what I read and that’s not an easy way into experiencing what Ni means

It's a fight for sure lol I still feel like I don't exactly get Ni. There's certainly some nuance I'm missing. Which is hilariously ironic.

 

[John K]

It's a fight for sure lol I still feel like I don't exactly get Ni. There's certainly some nuance I'm missing. Which is hilariously ironic.

I know just what you mean, but it is fabulously hilarious because there’s no one in the forum who’s more at home with it than you are

 

[Wyote]

I know just what you mean, but it is fabulously hilarious because there’s no one in the forum who’s more at home with it than you are

People who stick around here for any significant length of time are all Ni masters

 

[Deleted member 16771]

@John K @Wyote

That's an interesting difference, because I felt like I recognised Ni immediately when I read about it.

I think, though, that's because I had already done a fair bit of conscious reflection on my process for academic writing - just what's 'emerged' to work best for me over the years and the way I naturally and most comfortably do it. Essentially it's about taking in information and 'feeling' the idea coalesce subconsciously; feeling the 'whole' take form. I sometimes think of the process of Ni as akin to midwifery or carrying a child - you're creating it, you're building it, but it's not entirely 'yours', and you just have to let it come out in its own time, perhaps with some gentle encouragement. Or a horrific Ti labour if you want to rush things!

I think your blogs are a bit like that, Wy, on reflection of what you've said recently about trying to crystallise an aesthetic or personal 'essence'. I feel like what you're doing is 'feeding your Ni' and growing the child (and I've no doubt you've analysed your own process like this, too, but that's just what I see as an outsider looking in).

 

[Wyote]

@Deleted member 16771 oh for sure I immediately understood the idea of Ni and it made sense that it was my dominant function, but it took a bit to be able to understand its moving parts as you've eloquently described. But what I'm more referring to is the finicky bits about Ni. It's more of a personalized breakdown of my own usage of Ni, I suppose.

And you're right about my blogs, though they never started with that exact intent. I kind of use my own processes to reflect and grow. It's something I've learned from being around a lot of self help guru types of people and information lol.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

@Deleted member 16771 oh for sure I immediately understood the idea of Ni and it made sense that it was my dominant function, but it took a bit to be able to understand its moving parts as you've eloquently described. But what I'm more referring to is the finicky bits about Ni. It's more of a personalized breakdown of my own usage of Ni, I suppose.

And you're right about my blogs, though they never started with that exact intent. I kind of use my own processes to reflect and grow. It's something I've learned from being around a lot of self help guru types of people and information lol.

Finicky bits? Sorry I don't want to take up all your time here, so feel free not to reply immediately, but what details are you referring to?

 

[Wyote]

Finicky bits? Sorry I don't want to take up all your time here, so feel free not to reply immediately, but what details are you referring to?

Maximizing usage, coordinating with other functions, promoting better outcomes, riding the wave in style etc.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Maximizing usage, coordinating with other functions, promoting better outcomes, riding the wave in style etc.

Ah I getcha.

 

[Ren]

Essentially it's about taking in information and 'feeling' the idea coalesce subconsciously; feeling the 'whole' take form. I sometimes think of the process of Ni as akin to midwifery or carrying a child - you're creating it, you're building it, but it's not entirely 'yours', and you just have to let it come out in its own time, perhaps with some gentle encouragement. Or a horrific Ti labour if you want to rush things!

Wow, that is exactly it. You've nailed it completely. Let it come out in its own time, let yourself be guided by it.

riding the wave in style etc.

As long as you do it in an openocean.

 

[Wyote]

openocean

You better trademark that or I'm gonna be disappointed

 

[John K]

Maximizing usage, coordinating with other functions, promoting better outcomes, riding the wave in style etc.

It would be a depressing world if everything came on a plate nicely presented in one go. The journey’s the destination - always something new to surprise us round the corner lol and thank God!

 

[Ren]

You better trademark that or I'm gonna be disappointed

Haha, thanks but this is @John K's original coinage. I'll keep it somewhere if he doesn't mind, though.

God!

God: "What again, John!?"