INFJ Female, INTJ Male - Advice needed | INFJ Forum

INFJ Female, INTJ Male - Advice needed

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Ellie Sprog, Feb 8, 2017.

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  1. Ellie Sprog

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    Hello,

    I am fairly new to MBTI, but my now ex partner very much relates to his type and encouraged me to find out mine. I am an INFJ and he is an INTJ. Myself and my INTJ were in a relationship for a little under a year, had been on mini breaks, introduced friends and family, recently just booked a summer holiday for '17 and although we did not live together, spent a considerable amount of time (at least 5 days a week) together. We became inseparable almost immediately and I fell for him in a way I've never experienced before. The longest communication break we had was for 24 hours, once. Apart from this we spoke/ spent time together every, single day.

    4 days ago my INTJ ended our relationship out of the blue; his reason behind this is that in his eyes we are a 'perfect' fit, but feels as though something is missing, emotionally. He's unable to explain what this 'something' is and says he has never had 'it' in past relationships either. He feels that at this stage in our relationship he should be thinking of me as 'his entire world' and putting me first, especially after experiences we have shared together (such as Christmas, birthdays, trips etc) but doesn't I.e. His natural reaction to receiving a job offer to work in a different country would be to consider the advantages to him, and then consider the implications it might have on me/ our relationship second. My INTJ thinks this means he is a "selfish" person as he doesn't see his feelings for me growing, although I disagree somewhat with my INTJ as I have experienced the opposite to this in his actions towards me.

    My INTJ feels as though I was more emotionally invested in the relationship and the 'something' missing is stopping him from thinking about the future with me i.e. Moving in together, having children etc. He feels very strongly about not letting me down/ hurting me in the long run/ having me end up hating him for things he doesn't want and as he went against this in a previous long term relationship (moved in and made life promises which he didn't want and couldn't go through with, leaving his ex broken hearted) he feels as though he does not want history to repeat itself and its better to end it now. This sounds crazy to me and a bit like he's overthinking and panicking, especially as he said he could have easily stayed in the relationship (if he pushed his uncertainty about feelings towards a future with me aside).

    In the 4 days since the split my INTJ has continued to make contact with me and insists he cannot handle me not being in his life. He insists I am the closest person to him and he cannot be without me, but at the same time has a bit of a warped view about us being friends (I've explained it would be unhealthy as I could not have him as a friend and know of him meeting someone else romantically etc). At the moment he said he is trying to think logically and 'get through it', but the realisation of his decision/ what he has lost, may hit him in weeks/ months from now.

    I've never experienced this sort of break-up before and although genuinely heartbreaking and painful, it would really help me to receive any advice from INFJ's who have been or who are in current relationships with INTJs, to help me better understand what's going on in his head and the best way to approach this?

    Thank you!
     
  2. Eventhorizon

    Eventhorizon Permanently relocated
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    I think this makes perfect sense to me. He wants you as a friend but he doesn't feel as if he loves you or that he ever will.
    Because of this he wants you to be happy. He wants you to have a chance to find real love in your own life. He feels like if he continues any other relationship with you other than just being friends he is using you.
    He is also looking for love but probably understands at this point he will likely never find it. That or is simply beginning to suspect it.
    None of this is your fault. There nothing you can say, nothing you can be that will change it. You can try waiting, he might realize when you are gone that he actually does love you but... he may also never come to that conclusion and you would be waiting the rest of your life for nothing.
    If you have to have him as something more than a friend...if that's the only thing that is acceptable to You, then you need to stop talking to him. Don't return calls, texts, don't meet him....
    He can't know what he's missing until it's completely gone. There's no guarantee of outcome either way.
     
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  3. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    I've broken up the way described because I couldn't see the relationship being constructive for my girlfriend at the time.

    It's a realisation that a person with emotional needs will eventually end up neglected and damaged if they stay with me... and deciding to end things before it's too late.

    I think us INTJs love emotional types, but aren't good for their emotional needs. We'd rather be the ones whose needs aren't completely fullfilled in a relationship, because that is acceptable to our values of justice.

    If he's decided this there probably isn't much you can do to change his mind, unless perhaps you can convince him that you think that your emotional needs wouldn't be entirely dependent on him... that perhaps having your own children would complete the emotional landscape.
     
    #3 Flavus Aquila, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  4. cvp12gh5

    cvp12gh5 What a lovely way to burn...

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    @Ellie Sprog

    I know it may not seem like it at the moment, but if he really is an INTJ, he did this out of love and respect for you.

    I was once in a very similar situation. I was dating this guy for almost 2 years. We did everything together and I did love and respect him. But when I asked myself the hard questions ( are you 'in love' with him? Can you see a future with him? Do our ideas, values and goals match up?) the answer was not always 'yes'. He didn't have a clue what was going on in my mind until the day I told him that we needed to break up. Everyone around us was shocked because they thought we were perfect together. We were pretty much best friends. But...something was missing.

    Just know that these type of decisions aren't made lightly and they are done out of consideration for the other person. We don't want to prolong anything because that would only waste the other person's time.

    Once I came to the conclusion that it would not work long-term, I had to end it no matter how much it was going to hurt. Did I think about him afterwards? Yes, all the time. But I didn't contact him, didn't answer his calls, removed anything from his place that was mine and vice versa. I felt that doing all of that would make it easier for both of us to move forward. I found out later that he had bought a ring and was going to propose to me which made me feel terrible. But I was also relieved that I ended it before that happened. It would have made things worse.

    I remember the turning point for me. I was at his home and he had drank a bit too much that night and was getting really emotional. He kept repeating, 'I know you are going to leave me one day...please don't ever leave me...I will kill myself'. First, I was angry. This felt like emotional manipulation and I wanted to leave right then and there. Second, I didn't like the way he was acting. But it really did get me thinking. If he is acting this way now (breaking up wasn't even something we were talking about at that time) then how would he act if things didn't work out? So I sat down and went over the things mentioned in my first paragraph because if it wasn't going to work, then I owed it to him to end it so that he could move on.

    In the long run, I knew that it was the best decision for both of us even though he didn't see it that way. I'm sure you feel the same way right now.

    The best thing for you to do would be to cut him off completely no matter how much it hurts. He obviously didn't consider how much it would hurt him because if he did, he would have planned ahead of time to keep himself as busy as possible.

    So help him out with moving on. I know you don't want that but I can promise you that it will be the right thing to do. He will understand in the long run. Actually, he understands now that being friends is not the right move, but he is being a little selfish there. So keep yourself busy and live your life.

    Just imagine how difficult it must have been for him to break up with someone that he cares so much about...he would not have done this unless he knew it was the right thing. So let him go.
     
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    #4 cvp12gh5, Feb 8, 2017
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  5. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    You are wise to know that a friendship with him would be very difficult for you. So sorry you are going through this... My opinion is that the best way to deal with it would to be to explain to him that you are also hurt and need time apart to process and that a friendship would not be possible, for at least right now. Hopefully he will understand this at least rationally if not emotionally, and give you time to heal and move on. He will have to work out his own feelings. I know INFJs tend to want to guide people through things, but in this, he will need friends and family to help him get through it--it isn't fair to lean on you after breaking up.

    I once dated an INTJ and when we broke up he said he felt things with me that he didn't understand and didn't know how to handle. Your situation kind of reminds me of that. He is probably overwhelmed by emotions and looking for you to comfort and help him understand. I sometimes think that NT types have a very difficult time coping with emotions, and INTJs (in my opinion at least) seem to be the most sensitive of NTs once they experience a feeling-- they have to completely pick it apart and understand it... They don't seem to just let it fade and pass. I suspect INTJs once they care for someone, will always in some way care for that person. It sounds like he really did care for you and you had an impact on him.. maybe he wants to keep all the parts of your relationship that are convenient for him. Let him know that is not convenient for you. I hope that you both find what you need.
     
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    #5 acd, Feb 8, 2017
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  6. sassafras

    sassafras swish!

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    Honestly, I don't think MBTI type has anything to do with it. Maybe the process of how one may evaluate a problem or define 'love' differs from type to type, but the problem is universal.

    You can't reason someone into feeling something that they don't feel. It's very mature of your ex to realize that at this point in time, he doesn't think the feelings he has for you are congruent with what he can offer a serious, committed lifelong relationship.

    Much the same, it's very mature of you to realize that you can't be friends with him at this point because your feelings on the matter are different. You've reached an impasse. You want to continue the relationship as it is and take it to the next level. He does not.

    I'm sorry this is happening to you right now. It's very difficult to have someone you love tell you they don't return the same intensity and quality of feelings. However, as hard as it is to process, it's best that you know now and move on and eventually find someone who loves you the same way you love them.
     
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  7. highlighter

    highlighter Regular Poster

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    IDK....
    I am really sorry to all the INTJs out there...but I have heard this too many times...

    I believe NTs run into this issue right here whats happened to you... they have tried to apply rational thinking to LOVE? forgive me if I am laughing about this!

    there is nothing rational about love....AT ALL.
    Rational Love is not love at all.
    its just a lie someone tells themselves.
    My over all point is that I don't believe for a moment that Your INTJ did whats best for YOU...sorry no amount of logic will trump my Ni telling me that this is what is BEST for HIM...FORM his POV
    its simply warped in this idea of I wanna do what best for someone that I cant meet the emotional needs of.....
    AKA I am not gonna TRY to meet the emotional needs of this person because I either don't want too, don't care too OR I am fully aware there is someone out there I don't have to meet their needs and... it will be a better fit...AKA easier.

    And why does he get to decide what best for you? I dont understand this! an INTP did this too me. Why is she the one that gets to decide whats best!?!?! That is most def a narcissistic quality, to believe that you know what best for another person. and than implement that ruling!

    I would honestly have far more respect for someone saying this is best for ME to not be with you. I would rather hear that, its not wrapped in something covert.

    In any regard this info doesn't change anything, and it doesn't make it easier. Just please as an INFJ know that yes he did treat you that way...YES people out there do really think like this, NO he will never change. and YES you have to go no contact forever. I dont think INFJs can remain friends with someone they loved...but thats just me....I know I cant. especially if I was damaged by them.
    yes he may hurt and learn that he was wrong. But why give a second chance? if he with logic decided this.... what makes you think he would not later have the same logical thought again?
    NTs run into the same thoughts quite often. Than what happens?
     
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  8. cvp12gh5

    cvp12gh5 What a lovely way to burn...

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    Well no shit. Oh course he did what was best for him. But he also did what was best for her (or for THEM) by breaking up.

    He was being honest with her. Probably more honest than most people would be. Usually, people sit on these feelings until it's too late and then they feel trapped in a relationship with no way out (sorry, OP, not talking about your problem specifically--for the record).

    INTJ's are not emotionless. In fact, we are very emotional. We just happen to handle our emotions differently. And when something doesn't work, it doesn't work. No matter how much heartache it may bring us to walk away, we will still walk away because we understand that not everything in this world is about rainbows and butterflies when it comes to relationships.

    Maybe her INTJ is working through a couple of things but I think that his honesty is commendable. He did the right thing.
     
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  9. highlighter

    highlighter Regular Poster

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    I did not say INTJs are emotion less...
    But what I am saying is that most NT rationals will do what you said "when it doesnt work it doesnt work"
    They see no effort in trying.

    Your statement is a very good example that I believe INFJs need to learn of when dealing with Rationals. This could be for a good pairing as long as the rational through LOGIC sees the benefit,

    but the INFJ needs to understand

    A: if the NT think its not working or too much strain ....its over.
    B: As an NF dont you want something MORE than what works? more than whats effective and rational?
    I know I want more than that. I want some one that that will sacrifice everything for me...as I would for them.

    C: they may love you, you maybe the soul mate...doest matter. they apply logic to love. which is foolish. but thats what they believe in.

    Good luck I am very sorry about what happened.
    I hope you find an NF that will love you as deeply as you love them.
     
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  10. Eventhorizon

    Eventhorizon Permanently relocated
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    Thank you for your opinion on infjs. Type aside, people are still individuals. There are any number of things that fall outside of mbti type that might have had an effect on this situation. And so what is offered here are only best guesses.
    As an intj, trying to meet emotional needs is almost impossible. Or so I feel. Because someone can tell you they need something like let's say a hug... for an intj into its probably pretty simple to give a hug. Now imagine someone telling an intj they want them to feel happiness when they give the hug..contentment...love...or just emotion. I demand you feel something! It doesn't work like that.
     
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  11. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    Exactly.
     
  12. Tamagochi

    Tamagochi Sushi Destroyer
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    From my experience INFJ male - INTJ female is not a good match. Maybe the opposite is better. That's all I have regarding type.

    Now all that "not putting your needs first" is BS. There is nothing wrong about taking care of your own needs first. It is ignoring the needs of others in order to benefit oneself that is selfish. And did he really know what you wanted when considering this hypothetical scenario in his head? I think not. So either he's lying and not revealing his true motive for a breakup (like having another girlfriend, duh) in order to make you feel good, or you have been separated for nothing.

    In case of him being sincere, I would look for a pattern in the history of his relationships. There are some unhealthy signs, like looking for that idealized something instead of accepting the real imperfect you. And what's with the "I should be feeling by now..."? A better question to ask is how do I feel right now about that other person? And it looks like he's having trouble with expressing his current emotions. That's where you could step in to help and gain a level of trust.
     
  13. cvp12gh5

    cvp12gh5 What a lovely way to burn...

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    No, you didn't say it. But your words implied (at least imo) that emotions weren't a factor in an INTJ's decision making process. And that is not true. Emotions always play a role whether we like it or not.

    LOVE is not rational. We can agree on that. But a successful relationship can not be built on love alone. Why do you think people fall madly in love, run off and get married, have 10 kids, (add whatever other irrational move here)....all in the name of love, just to end up hating each other and eventually divorcing? Because they were running high on emotions and they didn't stop for a second to consider the other factors that are needed to have a truly successful relationship. I won't break it down for you right now (maybe some other time) but he mentioned a big one: sacrifice. He felt that his feelings were not strong enough to put someone else's needs before his own, or to even compromise. That's a big deal. And it has nothing to do with 'not trying'.

    INTJ's take love and commitment very seriously. And we will start a relationship with someone that we seem to fit with and it could be great but at some point things usually progress into something more. You are willing to do more. But if that doesn't happen then you have a decision to make. So you do the math. Yes, they are wonderful but what would you be willing to do for them? What would you do for LOVE? The answer for an INTJ that is seriously in love is ANYTHING. We would do anything and everything for the person that we are in love with. But if we are not in love then that leaves room for selfish behavior. He clearly did the math.

    Just as you wrote: "I know I want more than that. I want some one that that will sacrifice everything for me...as I would for them." We get that. And we are capable of this. But only with the right person. And just because the relationship may seem perfect, that doesn't mean that they are the one. We also need to feel it.
     
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  14. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    He's searching for someone who isnt emotionally needy, but is subconsciously attracted to them is my guess.
     
  15. jessx48

    jessx48 Newbie

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    I had a year and a half long relationship with an INTJ that sounds similar, at least in the initial phases. We fell head over heels for each other, pretty immediately. I was crazy about him and we actually spent genuinely every single day together even though we lived an hour apart, I'd drive to see him. I was crazy in love, we ended up moving in together and then three months later it was over.

    I was never sure why we didn't click, but we didn't. We argued, constantly. It was an unhealthy relationship. He needed to be right so bad and needed me to agree with him, about the stupidest little meaningless things. If I talked about some of them you wouldn't believe me lol. It was emotionally abusive, on both ends. He tore me down to get me to agree with him and I tore him down because he didn't acknowledge my feelings as true, he thought I was making them up and didn't see how I could possibly feel so much.

    I attribute it to Te, He NEEDED to be right, and it had to be logical, everything he did. Step by step logic and reasons, whereas literally everything I did was based on how I felt. He never got that and never took the time to listen to me because it didn't make sense. This probably would've been okay had he not invalidated my feelings everyday. It was just too much for me.
     
  16. Gracia12

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    I believe it's little bit late, I had an experience with an INTJ, and I found out they are a selfish person. They are kind, intelligent, and for me they are perfect.

    In my experience, I am actually not an emotional needy person or even push him for something that too fast, but INTJ will complaining or think differently if we don't really emotional to them, they will think we played around with him and etc. He is the one who started about marriage, when me as an INFJ would like to go slowly. When he found out that the emotional is too intense or kind of needy they will withdrawal their selves.

    They like to have witty arguments, but when it comes for a relationship they will start to think different, they will feeling less. In fact an INFJ usually the one who doesn't want to be involved by any conflicts.

    INTJs are perfect, but for love they don't know what they really want. They are complicated people, but they are also kindest people who will help people they loved.
     
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