[ENFP] INFJ breakup need help

[Connor]

..I’m hurting and please help me .

I met her and we started our relationship and went off to a amazing start we started talking about “life partnership “ and said she’d never loved someone or been a lover like she was with me . Never met a man like me etc. Had great adventures , conversations, connection and love .
My car engine exploded on a trip to see her so I owed a lot on the car and looked into bankruptcy.

She felt I was hiding something- I didn’t tell her immediately I waited a week or two after thinking about the bankruptcy. I maybe wanted to not burden the relationship and to make sure we stayed together I admit that , however I also just wanted to decide and handle it before telling her. We weren’t going to buy a house together and everything was going to work out . It was the best decision for my future .

She asked if there’s anything after she wondered if I was cheating and said she knows I’m betraying her! so I told her and explained . Couple weeks later she brings it up and I was defensive because she said I was deceiving her like manipulative.. I said if you don’t believe me then don’t bother with me (in so many words ). So I flew out the next day we talked it out ,made love , I understood and apologized, and we decided to transform our relationship. Had a wonderful morning and next day. I thought it was healed.

She wasn’t really over this emotional anger from me so she comes out for my birthday says “let’s love with out attachment. “ so I think she’s going to leave me . I got emotional asked for reassurance and hugs - she wanted space . I paced around the room and wanted to go for a walk- she said she was going to leave and get a hotel i begged her not to end it like that . She stayed and the next morning went fine but we didn’t talk much and I told her apologies.

Long story short , we don’t talk for a week and she’s on vacation-she breaks up when she returns after I deeply apologized and took responsibility.
a few days later she said let’s move forward with love . Then a couple days later, text me saying it’s totally over and she doesn’t align with me . Later that day she asked me to fly out to see her .
I did yesterday .

We had a long talk and I showed her I changed . I listened to everything she said and didn’t react .
she tells me Doesn’t want an unstable man , needs emotional security, that night showed a pattern that I couldn’t control myself . Says she needed a man to just own their shadow and be authentic . Told me I wasn’t authentic and That I have self loathing and shame when I told her “why does she think of me so negatively” she said she needs a man who would just own all parts of himself .
I said sure those are parts of me and told her all about me and my life story . I haven’t had someone tell me something like this in my entire life . She said it’s because she can see me better than anyone else even my close friends for over decade.
I gave her a masssge and hugs and went to bed.
I told her it can be the start of something new and we could take it slow as I wait for her to trust and feel emotionally intimate with me again . She said that’s not what she wanted.
She remembered some good times and told me she still loves me and there’s a lot of love between us and our connection is strong . Said she couldn’t make love as it would confuse her .
I told her I would wait for her .
She said that’s not good for us.


I am working on myself and I was willing to give it a chance . Now I feel so defeated and exhausted and regret.

Im hurting so bad please advise .

 

[uuu]

This sounds like a very painful situation. I am sorry to hear that you are hurting.

I can see the logic behind your decision to keep quiet about the car repair, and knowing how difficult it is to keep quiet about a major source of stress like that, I suppose I can understand why your partner might feel a bit jealous or suspicious. However, I am surprised to hear that she persisted in distancing herself from you even after you told her frankly about this situation. That indicates to me that the breakup isn't really "just" about your acting cagey about your car, but about some larger issue: perhaps with your communication style, or perhaps with her own insecurities. Perhaps, for example, she loves you a lot and doesn't like that being in a relationship with you makes her feel like she isn't in control of herself. Or perhaps when she calls you "unstable" she is really projecting her own emotional instability onto you.

Even if I had both sides of the story, I think it would be difficult to judge exactly what is going on psychologically, and I won't speculate further. But your story reminds me of a very brief relationship I had in which the girl would engineer situations in which I had to demonstrate exceptional trust and flexibility in order to tend to her emotional needs, then (when I hesitated) accuse me of not trusting her or being insincere in my feelings. She claimed she wanted an egalitarian relationship, but in practice, this means that I had to constantly "earn" her affection in order to make up for my poor performance in these trust games.

Unfortunately, nobody can predict how this situation will play out in the future, but I encourage you not to think in terms of extremes: a healthy relationship isn't one that requires you to constantly "work on yourself" and "change"—nor is it a perfect meeting in which two static beings happen to "align." A little bit of space and time away from each other may give you the perspective you need to understand whether this is the right relationship for you, and if so, how to put it on a sustainable path.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

hiya Zach

It feels like she has deeply ingrained trust issues to me.

What was your life like prior to meeting her? and your previous relationships, did they resemble any patterns like this?
I'm trying to see how knowing her has changed things.

As for pain... there isn't much we can do except hold on tight and lean on each other. Hugs. Turbulent relationships are like going underwater again and again, only taking in air for brief moments.
Would it help you saying more?

 

[Connor]

Unfortunately, nobody can predict how this situation will play out in the future, but I encourage you not to think in terms of extremes: a healthy relationship isn't one that requires you to constantly "work on yourself" and "change"—nor is it a perfect meeting in which two static beings happen to "align."

Thank you for this kind and thoughtful reply . I will right more down there

 

[Asa]

This is so turbulent and painful. She sounds emotionally unstable and (emotionally) immature. (Her idealism and the quick way she dumped you when you did not live up to high expectations is a classic INFP habit, BTW. This whole thing reads like an INFP romance gone wrong.)

It is better for you to find peace with this and walk away. All relationships help us grow, so take what you learned and apply it to life, be thankful, and move forward. There is someone for you out there who "flows" with you better, will be more accepting and understanding of you, and have a steadier kind of love for you.

 

[Connor]

Those are helpful questions and I know INFJ likes to see past patterns.
As an ENFP we are know to fall in love quick I’ve had a variety of relationship types from flings to saying we were “married .”
Last relationship fell in love fast and moved in quick but didn’t work out and I dealt with that in therapy .

the only person that reminds me of this sort of situation was a narcissist (clinically diagnosed) that said very hurtful things at the end and they were very similar . After breaking off an engagement. That started my journey of therapy for me .

It will help me to talk more … I want to talk about what’s bothering me . First is I feel it’s all my fault .
Also I think that when she said “she needs a man who integrated his shadow and will not lash out when things are brought up because of shame,”. Maybe I haven’t developed enough as a person .
She said I have my scars right on my sleeve and won’t integrate it . We talked for hours and hours during this break up talk. I can’t believe I flew out there for one night for that .

so it bothers me because she is referring to two times she brought up in vivid detail
1 when she brought up that I deceived her by not disclosing the bankruptcy decision straight away to her . We had this conversation on the phone and I was drunk I did shout and say “if you think I’m such a. Liar and believe nothing I say then don’t fuck with me!” I meant why be with me if I’m like that . So I flew there the next day as planned and we talked everything out . Decided to transform our way of relating during conflict and has An amAzinf time . A couple weeks later

2. when she came out on my birthday and then she said “let’s love without attachment to outcome ,” and that she has accepted the possibility we may not be life partners .she said it’s becusse I hadn’t healed the issues that got me into self betrayal to go into debt .” I kinda got emotional I said if you’re going to break up with me then do it .thanks and I wish you well. “
Then she asked for space I left for twenty minutes came back and asked for a hug . She said no and I was unhealthy . I went to leave and then she said no I’m leaving and I begged her to stay and not go to a hotel on my birthday.

so after a week of space I took full responsibility that I hurt her and I’m taking accountability etc
She broke up with me anyways .

so the other night , when she brought these things up she said I can’t meet her emotional needs of security . That I scared her and was “unstable “ then she went on about how I reacted shows I haven’t incorporated my shadow and I wouldn’t have done that I would’ve just walked away . She said I’m not able to control myself .

i told her see how I’m sitting here just listening I am capable of change like I said and promised I would .
She said it’s too little too late .
What do you think of that? Am I not developed enough as a man ?

finally one other story , we drove on a road trip in her car but I drove . While there thr e first night she got overwhelmed because bugs were there so we switched rooms drove away and got a different place . She got upset telling me she wouldn’t destroy her sleep and work week for our relationship. I was hurt . She did apologize the next morning . Then we had a great time and so on . On the ride back , she kept telling me not to speed I said okay mom.” And she really got ina. Rage and told me it wasn’t a joke that I’m cruel and tried to hurt her etc .
I kind of just kept in my anger and drove home . Then she left and came back due to a. Windstorm and told me she had to tell me that she really wasn’t going to move here because she got approved for a massive down payment assistance for a home in her state . Then we made love and she cried and told me some bad dreams and memories and told me how wonderful of a man I was si vulnerable and open hearted and loving and beautiful .

so that last story all Happened before I told her the bankruptcy. She said why would I go on a trip if I’m going bankrupt. However the lawyer told me that I had to wait 90 days anyways and that whatever was before rhe 99 days would be erased as long as it wasn’t above 859 dollars .

anyways . That’s more context . This hurts me immensely because she thought so highly of me and then different .
She said my pattern of behavior shows I’m unstable and so on as I wrote above .

im also concerned abojt how I lash out and none of my friends think that about me she said I was so crazy that birthday night . But really I was scared and wanted a hug .

Am I just so I’ll equipped for such a developed woman ?

I mean she said all this kid things ar the end and how she still loves me and there’s a lot of love and connection and she will always remember me. Asked me to remember her smh
Yeah that’s everything thanks for listening

 

[Asa]

@Zach – It is not all your fault. Relationships are about two people. All humans are continuously developing as people, so yes you need more development and maybe you'll do things differently next time, but it doesn't sound like you needed to develop more for this relationship. I'm only hearing your point of view, but she sounds judgmental without self-examination. I see a pattern of her doing and being what she accused you of. You were jumping through hoops and over-extending, which is not a balanced relationship.

It was your prerogative not to tell her about your bankruptcy. If you were in a long-term relationship and/or shared finances or a child, it would be right to reveal important financial information. Your ex over-reacted.

You are welcome to talk about it here because that does really help with "closure", but from hearing your side of the story, it sounds like it is best that this relationship is behind you.

 

[Connor]

@Zach – It is not all your fault. Relationships are about two people. All humans are continuously developing as people, so yes you need more development and maybe you'll do things differently next time, but it doesn't sound like you needed to develop more for this relationship. I'm only hearing your point of view, but she sounds judgmental without self-examination. I see a pattern of her doing and being what she accused you of. You were jumping through hoops and over-extending, which is not a balanced relationship.

It was your prerogative not to tell her about your bankruptcy. If you were in a long-term relationship and/or shared finances or a child, it would be right to reveal important financial information. Your ex over-reacted.

You are welcome to talk about it here because that does really help with "closure", but from hearing your side of the story, it sounds like it is best that this relationship is behind you.

I do agree but my point was not to say I am correct. I actually am hurt coming to terms with the fact that I believe that I ruined the whole relationship. Like it is true I did raise my voice when she said for the third time that the bankruptcy was a betrayal. And I did get made when she said it's because I did not heal my betrayal that got me into debt.
I got into debt and was paying it off but the car blowing up and me owing so much on it changed everything. I got a substantial raise, so the lawyer advised me it's my only chance to get out of the debts.

I am not thinking of this as getting back with her- just want to think of all the pain I am in and if I truly wrecked this relationship. It's like I believe what she said has some truth she also told me her gift is to see into people and see them and she will not be silenced for her truth that was silenced in multiple past lifetimes.

I feel bad because I also did ask for hugs and stuff and didn't give a ton of space after she said "love without attachement" on my b-day told me my anxiety is not more important than her emotional well-being. Are these things true? Or not true but, is it really messed up how I acted? I feel really terrible about it.
And she said me feeling ashamed just shows I don't own my shadow- that seems true and is really hurtful. These things have done a number on me

Then before leaving we were hugging and holding each other and she was saying the connection is still there and she still loves me, etc.

I just want to make sense of these things about me and I just appreciate these outside persectives.

 

[Connor]

one more thing.. that break up night I took full responsibility, apologized and laid out how I would not do those things again and I would simply walk away if there was something going on upsetting or listen and respond later. Also, I told her didn't my demeanor during this tough conversation show I had changed? and I was willing to change.

 

[Asa]

I understand that @Zach.

You did not wreck the relationship. Two of you were in the relationship. I see a lot of problems with how she behaved. I hope you can recognize where you need improvement as a person without blaming yourself for all of this because she contributed, too. (TBH, she sounds manipulative and like she is weaponizing shadow work.)

It is good for you to think about why you raised your voice and how what she said made you feel. I think your feelings were justified, but maybe you should work on how you convey those feelings.

A lot of people won't tolerate raised voices in relationships, but that doesn't mean people can say whatever they want to each other without weighing how hurtful or divisive their words are. Her reaction to your bankruptcy was out of proportion and I believe she made unfair accusations about your character (based on the evidence you shared). Anger is a natural reaction to this. How you express anger is what may need to change. You seem self-aware and you have a desire to improve. Reflect on what you want to do differently in the future.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

(TBH, she sounds manipulative and like she is weaponizing shadow work.)

I agree with Asa. Not that she did it intentionally, only that her behaviour and claims feel like somebody used to navigating their world a certain way.

That isn't to say you don't have some things to sort. It feels like you do. Like, that you traveled over there on such little notice - I feel for this, at the same time it does seem impulsive or that you were being led by your feelings. In retrospect, would you say this is true? or, perhaps somewhat different?

Raised voices is also very unpleasant. Thank you for seeing it as an unhealthy approach to handling things. What would be better ways to constructively feel out your frustrations?

 

[Connor]

Thanks so much for all this help .
I really just wanted the redemption of being able to try again in the right way with her . I did many things so right from the kindness I showed and the way I taught her things , how I listened and tried to understand, how I apologized and try to sooth , how I cared for her with touch and massage and like she said how “I truly saw her - one of the only times she ever felt seen.” And I put it in a poem (I’m an artist ) and now she mailed it back to me .

ok, I wish I wasn’t drunk I will start there when I yelled on the phone .
I’ve been dealing with my anger by basically letting it go by punching pillowed and such then I do trauma processing work with my breath and movement including dances and self expression .

Honestly Asa, I agree with you I was upset because it felt so untrue towards me . I felt like projectiles thrown at me . I didn’t betray myself for debt I literally fixed my exes car and she promised to pay me back then she left . And gave me a a bit . The rest of the debt like 10k total was things like restaurants and drinks . I was promised a raise I didn’t get for three years and I am a single father and was making under 45k
She’s very successful and makes a huge salary that I never asked about .
She said she values saving .

why did I go there ? Only if I knew lol I thought I would have this Romantic reconciliation we would work it out and make love .
She told me for the first time in her life she was a lover with someone. She had been a gf or wife but said she’d never been a true lover before that never met a man who wants to be so loving and place her first in love making . And it is something I try my best . I am a emotional man and a poet by trade .
She made me a better poet too.

she told me how much she learned and how it meant so much to her that I came there and it was brave to talk.

i don’t know why I said I would wait but she said that would only cause more pain .
i said let’s just take it day by day and build trust again and the flame will return yet she said she doesn’t want to ans it would only hurt us both .

i fell like she’s done a number on me tbh

 

[aeon]

First is I feel it’s all my fault .

It’s not all your fault, and perhaps there is no fault whatsoever. A relationship that seemed to have promise didn’t go further, but I’d suggest that “fault” is neither helpful, or accurate.

Also I think that when she said “she needs a man who integrated his shadow and will not lash out when things are brought up because of shame,”. Maybe I haven’t developed enough as a person .

Maybe. And maybe that’s a convenient catchphrase. After all, one could say this of uncountable numbers of men and women.

She said I have my scars right on my sleeve and won’t integrate it .

I don’t doubt the power of Ni as found in a mature INFJ, but if we are talking about shadow integration and integration of the unconscious aspects of the self, especially within the context of trauma and self-work, I don’t think that is something for another to declare, at least outside of clinical therapy.

Again, it’s an easy thing to say, regardless of the recipient, so inasmuch as I don’t know either of you, I am hesitant to say she was on the mark, or not. It seems quite the statement given the time you had engaged with each other.

1 when she brought up that I deceived her by not disclosing the bankruptcy decision straight away to her . We had this conversation on the phone and I was drunk I did shout and say “if you think I’m such a. Liar and believe nothing I say then don’t fuck with me!” I meant why be with me if I’m like that . So I flew there the next day as planned and we talked everything out . Decided to transform our way of relating during conflict and has An amAzinf time . A couple weeks later

Alcohol rarely helps anyone in such situations, and I’m guessing you know that.

I don’t think your financial affairs are/were her business, but I will say this: attempting to omit from discussion something you had various troubling emotions about—to leave it to remain unknown to a less mature INFJ—this is like blood in the water to a shark. The INFJ will sense this, and because they won’t know the what, the less mature INFJ will come to any number of conclusions, many of which have the potential to trouble and frighten.

I advise transparency in relationships regardless of the situation (even acknowledging it isn’t the right choice for everyone), but from this ENFP to another, I doubly advise transparency when engaging with an INFJ.

2. when she came out on my birthday and then she said “let’s love without attachment to outcome ,” and that she has accepted the possibility we may not be life partners .she said it’s becusse I hadn’t healed the issues that got me into self betrayal to go into debt .” I kinda got emotional I said if you’re going to break up with me then do it .thanks and I wish you well. “
Then she asked for space I left for twenty minutes came back and asked for a hug . She said no and I was unhealthy . I went to leave and then she said no I’m leaving and I begged her to stay and not go to a hotel on my birthday.

so after a week of space I took full responsibility that I hurt her and I’m taking accountability etc
She broke up with me anyways .

This seems like an offer and then boundary expression and advocacy for outcomes—which didn’t work out. Each put something forth, and neither is at fault.

so the other night , when she brought these things up she said I can’t meet her emotional needs of security . That I scared her and was “unstable “ then she went on about how I reacted shows I haven’t incorporated my shadow and I wouldn’t have done that I would’ve just walked away . She said I’m not able to control myself .

That seems to be straight-up boundary violation to me—first, in presuming to make you responsible for a need that is rightly hers, and second, in invalidating you based on very limited data. Her would-be insight notwithstanding, she had no way to truly know what you are unable to do, nor what you are unwilling to choose, much less discern the difference between the two.

I have reason to think her expression could be projection on her part. I think it worth considering, anyway.

i told her see how I’m sitting here just listening I am capable of change like I said and promised I would .
She said it’s too little too late .
What do you think of that? Am I not developed enough as a man ?

She’s got her reason(s), and as it concerns your development as a man, bring me a hundred people to think on it, and I’ll have 101 opinions and perspectives, and they will vary with the wind. Who can know such a thing aside from yourself, and how can you be sure you are right about yourself?

Better to believe each and every has an opportunity to develop and grow, inasmuch as each and every is human. For every new day we are blessed to see, each of us is a living paradox—more than enough, yet so far to go until we could believe that we are.

finally one other story , we drove on a road trip in her car but I drove . While there thr e first night she got overwhelmed because bugs were there so we switched rooms drove away and got a different place . She got upset telling me she wouldn’t destroy her sleep and work week for our relationship. I was hurt . She did apologize the next morning . Then we had a great time and so on .

I appreciate that she acknowledged your hurt, even if she was making a simple statement about her unwillingness to sacrifice self in order to make something work.

On the ride back , she kept telling me not to speed I said okay mom.” And she really got ina. Rage and told me it wasn’t a joke that I’m cruel and tried to hurt her etc .

Well, I don’t know what to say here other than 1., you learned something about her, and 2., in general, I think it’s a bad idea to maternalize or paternalize a partner, culture’s love for “yes, Daddy,” and “mamacita” notwithstanding.

She said my pattern of behavior shows I’m unstable and so on as I wrote above .

To her standard or ideal, perhaps, and that’s okay. Sad, but her choices are what they are.

Am I just so I’ll equipped for such a developed woman ?

Developed in what way(s)? She seems green, but maybe that’s just me.

I actually am hurt coming to terms with the fact that I believe that I ruined the whole relationship.

Well sure, because that’s a hurtful thing to think, maybe more so because it isn’t true. You can’t fully own that which is not wholly yours, and trying to make it so makes it a falsehood.

I got into debt and was paying it off but the car blowing up and me owing so much on it changed everything.

For some people it does change everything, and sometimes particularly so because of cultural and gender roles.

just want to think of all the pain I am in and if I truly wrecked this relationship.

Your pain is valid. You did not “truly” wreck this relationship. Believing so will make your pain worse. Don’t do that to yourself.

It's like I believe what she said has some truth

I’m sure it does—her truth. Not yours.

she also told me her gift is to see into people and see them and she will not be silenced for her truth that was silenced in multiple past lifetimes.

INFJ + baggage? Not meant in a pejorative way, but perhaps she’s got some things to work out.

I feel bad because I also did ask for hugs and stuff and didn't give a ton of space after she said "love without attachement" on my b-day told me my anxiety is not more important than her emotional well-being.

Maybe for her, it wasn’t/isn’t. There’s nothing right or wrong in that—it’s just her value preference.

I can only imagine what was meant by “love without attachment.” Having tried that once myself, I won’t be looking to repeat that...ever.

is it really messed up how I acted? I feel really terrible about it.

You acted as you chose to act. I appreciate you have feelings about it, but are those feelings born of, or intensified by, your own judgment about it, i.e., “messed up?” I want you to know there’s no need to think of what you did in terms of being right or wrong, or even being effective, or not. You engaged as you did, and she did the same. What each of you did may not have been what the other wanted, or hoped for, but that’s the responsibility of each for having expectation, not for what they expressed.

And she said me feeling ashamed just shows I don't own my shadow- that seems true and is really hurtful. These things have done a number on me

This is just my values and opinion here, but I would always seek to comfort someone I was in relationship with, if I could, if they were distressed. I’d celebrate their growth, on their terms, but I wouldn’t try to bring it about by rubbing their nose in their own shame. That just seems unnecessarily cruel, regardless of assuming ignorance over malice.

I’m sure hearing that hurt—I know I would feel hurt in hearing it, in part because it is a neatly-packaged lie that avoids mutual ownership of the experience. It is both uncaring and unfair.

Then before leaving we were hugging and holding each other and she was saying the connection is still there and she still loves me, etc.

Her engagement and expression doesn’t seem loving to me.

one more thing.. that break up night I took full responsibility, apologized and laid out how I would not do those things again and I would simply walk away if there was something going on upsetting or listen and respond later. Also, I told her didn't my demeanor during this tough conversation show I had changed? and I was willing to change.

I can appreciate your motivation in doing this, but I don’t think you helped yourself here. Perhaps unintentional on your part, but you presented her with a falsehood, because the full responsibility was not yours to take. And to the degree you believed it, you were willing to disrespect yourself in service of meeting your own needs. I advise you not to do this—self-loathing and depressed mood, as well as unacknowledged anger, are too high a price to pay. It simply isn’t worth it.

-------

When @Asa said weaponization of shadow work, she was acutely on-point. It seems a particularly mean-spirited thing to do, from my perspective. I’d prefer to imagine it is the product of a certain ignorance and lack of awareness, of oneself and otherwise, than to think it purposefully malicious, because the latter is something to run, not walk, away from.

-------

She told me for the first time in her life she was a lover with someone. She had been a gf or wife but said she’d never been a true lover before that never met a man who wants to be so loving and place her first in love making . And it is something I try my best . I am a emotional man...she told me how much she learned and how it meant so much to her that I came there and it was brave to talk.

I can certainly appreciate being told such a thing, and it feels good, no? But consider this...that you were that person for her is not of any real consequence beyond it having happened. Good for her—maybe she’ll dare to dream a bigger dream because of you, but there’s nothing saying you are going to be in that dream. And that’s okay.

I’m sorry you’re hurting right now. For all the reasons you do. If any of those are you unnecessarily beating on yourself, please stop. Your heartache is more than enough all by itself.

Oxytocin is real. Few do the dance and avoid paying the price, and we are well-served to avoid those who do. Be careful with yourself. Because you’re human.

One morning soon you will awaken, and your ache will be a little less. And then will come the morning your ache will be no more. I’m going to be bold and say I know this because I am an ENFP like you. On that day, you’ll spring forth bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. You’ll think fondly of this woman because she helped get you ready for whatever comes next in your story—a story worth writing poems about. You’ve lost nothing, but you have been given a chance to live your dream.

And if you’re jaded, or indulge your cynicism from time to time—you dodged a bullet!

Best to You,
Ian

 

[Matty]

..I’m hurting and please help me .

I met her and we started our relationship and went off to a amazing start we started talking about “life partnership “ and said she’d never loved someone or been a lover like she was with me . Never met a man like me etc. Had great adventures , conversations, connection and love .
My car engine exploded on a trip to see her so I owed a lot on the car and looked into bankruptcy.

She felt I was hiding something- I didn’t tell her immediately I waited a week or two after thinking about the bankruptcy. I maybe wanted to not burden the relationship and to make sure we stayed together I admit that , however I also just wanted to decide and handle it before telling her. We weren’t going to buy a house together and everything was going to work out . It was the best decision for my future .

She asked if there’s anything after she wondered if I was cheating and said she knows I’m betraying her! so I told her and explained . Couple weeks later she brings it up and I was defensive because she said I was deceiving her like manipulative.. I said if you don’t believe me then don’t bother with me (in so many words ). So I flew out the next day we talked it out ,made love , I understood and apologized, and we decided to transform our relationship. Had a wonderful morning and next day. I thought it was healed.

She wasn’t really over this emotional anger from me so she comes out for my birthday says “let’s love with out attachment. “ so I think she’s going to leave me . I got emotional asked for reassurance and hugs - she wanted space . I paced around the room and wanted to go for a walk- she said she was going to leave and get a hotel i begged her not to end it like that . She stayed and the next morning went fine but we didn’t talk much and I told her apologies.

Long story short , we don’t talk for a week and she’s on vacation-she breaks up when she returns after I deeply apologized and took responsibility.
a few days later she said let’s move forward with love . Then a couple days later, text me saying it’s totally over and she doesn’t align with me . Later that day she asked me to fly out to see her .
I did yesterday .

We had a long talk and I showed her I changed . I listened to everything she said and didn’t react .
she tells me Doesn’t want an unstable man , needs emotional security, that night showed a pattern that I couldn’t control myself . Says she needed a man to just own their shadow and be authentic . Told me I wasn’t authentic and That I have self loathing and shame when I told her “why does she think of me so negatively” she said she needs a man who would just own all parts of himself .
I said sure those are parts of me and told her all about me and my life story . I haven’t had someone tell me something like this in my entire life . She said it’s because she can see me better than anyone else even my close friends for over decade.
I gave her a masssge and hugs and went to bed.
I told her it can be the start of something new and we could take it slow as I wait for her to trust and feel emotionally intimate with me again . She said that’s not what she wanted.
She remembered some good times and told me she still loves me and there’s a lot of love between us and our connection is strong . Said she couldn’t make love as it would confuse her .
I told her I would wait for her .
She said that’s not good for us.


I am working on myself and I was willing to give it a chance . Now I feel so defeated and exhausted and regret.

Im hurting so bad please advise .

You've dodged a bullet there.

Unconsciously you knew to keep the blown engine and bankruptcy to yourself. I'm guessing you intuitvely knew to do it. Don't you think something is amiss when she's more upset about the situation, than concerned for how it affected you?

Everyone has some degree of narcissism and love for money, but it sounds as though your girl loves herself and money WAY too much. All the "betrayal and trust" nonsense just seems like rationalisations for her being annoyed about what actually upset her. Moreover, the way you described your response to her seems as though you habitually take the blame for her problems. I'm left wondering if you can even recognise her responsibility in causing problems.

Anyhow, like most harmful addictions, withdrawal hurts, but isn't a bad thing.

 

[Connor]

@aeon thanks for breaking it down point by point- I really relate to another ENFP lol.
And you can recongnize just how much I am taking too much blame. I wish I would've stood up more for myself that night, but I have compassion for myself because that was quite a difficult situation to be int. I am going to reflect more now.

 

[uuu]

Based on the new details you have provided above, especially this girl's comments about "shadow work" and "love without attachment," my sense is that even if you managed to remain in a relationship with this girl, it would likely be a volatile one involving a lot of loneliness and hurt. I am glad to see that you are willing to assess the relationship on its merits rather than fixating on the issue of who is at fault or how it could have played out differently.

I am taking too much blame. I wish I would've stood up more for myself that night, but I have compassion for myself because that was quite a difficult situation to be int. I am going to reflect more now.

This sounds like a healthy mentality. It is a good idea not to blame yourself. And it is a sign of emotional maturity that in the midst of your pain, you are able to take a step back and reason objectively about the scenarios that you have related to us.

I find that as I have acquired more relationship experience, this ability to see situations for what they are and identify when someone crosses a line has improved. Moreover, contrary to the fears I used to have of growing cynical and burning out on relationships, this clearheadedness does not seem to take away from the joy and excitement of connection, which remains strong. I hope that similar growth is in your future.

 

[Connor]

Based on the new details you have provided above, especially this girl's comments about "shadow work" and "love without attachment," my sense is that even if you managed to remain in a relationship with this girl, it would likely be a volatile one involving a lot of loneliness and hurt. I am glad to see that you are willing to assess the relationship on its merits rather than fixating on the issue of who is at fault or how it could have played out differently.

.

thank you for that. I think what’s becoming clear is that I still am willing to put up with so much pain and suffering for love.I did suffer a lot in the relationship. I did spend too much time apologizing. She would get so upset and bring it up and she was very clear about her criticism and overbearing in a way . It hurt me . I am sensitive too. And when she would go away for days or even a week and not talk except on her time this made me very upset . But I was trying to learn to be someone who gives space better .
I want to emphasize that I really did love this woman . As an enfp, I meet new people all the time and I have since exactly one year ago dated four people that I saw multiple times and sometimes quite often each broke up for different reasons and most thought I wasn’t in love with them enough but I only bring this up to say I wasn’t expecting to fall so hard for her.
But she connected with me in a different way she was very interesting and also very interested in me. We talked for hours and hours and I wasn’t bored . And also we would both be very excited what I liked most is I loved to share things with her - something I wrote , an obscure book, a childhood memory, food , a favorite place of mine and she made sure to share experiences too.
So I did love her .

i was beyond blinded when we went from that to her saying “love without attachment “ so yes I defineltu was emotional and kinda running around like a chicken with his head cut off . But to be perfectly honest it was our second or third argument . I usually don’t argue much in relationships so ironically I did here because honestly I was so scared to lose her .

i think the way she brought my psychological growth and spirituality into question was very messed up to do and manipulative and also it was just not kind . It shows she thinks of herself superior.
Seriously I appreciate this forum . And I can’t wait for the day I’m not angry .
I don’t know if I will ever reach out to her again . And I wish that night I would’ve maybe told her about her errors too but I guess idk how to stand up to being put down 20 years later .
Being together I didn’t like how I made more effort and she said she made a lot of effort so I think we are just fundamentally much different and at this point I don’t even think anything positive about her

 

[uuu]

As someone who as also had about 4 relationships in the last year: That's a lot to put yourself through. Be gentle with yourself. Anger, hurt, and confusion are natural emotions. What counts is what you do with those emotions, and whether you are able to channel them into improving yourself.

Seriously I appreciate this forum . And I can’t wait for the day I’m not angry .

Stay a while! I hope you'll keep us updated.

 

[Connor]

I don’t think your financial affairs are/were her business, but I will say this: attempting to omit from discussion something you had various troubling emotions about—to leave it to remain unknown to a less mature INFJ—this is like blood in the water to a shark. The INFJ will sense this, and because they won’t know the what, the less mature INFJ will come to any number of conclusions, many of which have the potential to trouble and frighten.

I would like to mention something about this- I drove to see her when the car exploded and I kept her up to date on the process where the dealership wouldn't give me my car back and corporate didn't help fix it etc. She was like I can't believe how well you handle stress etc. It's just once I started thinking of bankruptcy I didn't tell her- she had expressed to me before how much it mattered a partner is financially there, because she took care of her ex-husband and he didn't work hard. Ok, so I did not tell her right away it was about 2 weeks- and during that time she used her intuition to pick up on my feelings- but the accusations were ridiculous- she said it has something to do with the 8th house and a tarot card relating to deception I think 6 of wands? then she said there's another woman I've betrayed the relationship for- then asked maybe it was another man and I am bisexual and haven't told her.
So I said stop thinking all this it's a bankruptcy I didn't tell you right away as I was waiting for the right time and know it ruined your last partnership.
Ok, so just wanted to throw this out here to show her predictions- however she said they were all accurate that some of my female friends love me and that I do share energy openly with my guy friends and she misinterpreted that as sexual. She truly believes she is not wrong because of her psychic gifts.

I have been re-reading this thread and thinking about how she has to own her part in the conversations as well- for instance she chose, two weeks later to bring up the bankruptcy again, she chose to say it shows I haven't healed my betrayal. she chose to not ask me how I felt, she chose that was a big value to her, she chose that me not telling her quicker was betrayal,
I chose not to tell her while on a road trip having fun and yeah that's a sort of lie.
like @Sometimes Yeah said I have my intuition as my main function, too, and I just knew she would trip out.
Literally, all of my friends supported me on it- yeah it was my chance to get out of debt. Her judging me for past debts saying it shows my values and behavior not only is not true but it's not even curious to see why. I explained it all top to bottom to her and took responsibility for my own debt- I did mention exes who took advantage of me financially, but that was a bad choice because it was my decision. I got into 10 k of debt over 5 years. most was nothing extravagant. I grew up with zero life skills taught and I kept good credit my whole adult life after my father ruined my credit at 18 by running up a credit card n my name. I've come a long way and am proud of myself. I got two new jobs now and the bankruptcy will free me.

 

[Asa]

- but the accusations were ridiculous- she said it has something to do with the 8th house and a tarot card relating to deception I think 6 of wands?

Yikes.

She truly believes she is not wrong because of her psychic gifts.

Ohhhhh. Oh no. The first rule is to be humble about intuitive insight.

If she were truly "psychic" she would have asked you why you didn't tell her about your bankruptcy instead of saying Tarot told her you were cheating. I see someone who makes accusations without acknowledging how her own issues affected the romance.

The more you say, the luckier I think you are that this is over. It sounds like the pressure would have kept increasing.

I explained it all top to bottom to her and took responsibility for my own debt- I did mention exes who took advantage of me financially, but that was a bad choice because it was my decision. I got into 10 k of debt over 5 years. most was nothing extravagant. I grew up with zero life skills taught and I kept good credit my whole adult life after my father ruined my credit at 18 by running up a credit card n my name. I've come a long way and am proud of myself. I got two new jobs now and the bankruptcy will free me.

This is your chance to start clean, post-bankruptcy, and make sure you keep your finances in check, including choosing relationships that don't pressure you to over-extend yourself and making healthy boundaries with those you share your life with, including with money. You spent a lot of money during this short relationship on your travel, hotels, and vacation.

Also, make sure your next partner understands how you behave with friends and understands your personality so they don't make accusations when you are affectionate or emotionally open. Emotional openness is one of the great traits of ENFPs. I also enjoy the ENFP joie de vivre. Don't let anyone take that away from you.