If Jesus didn't die on the cross then.... | Page 5 | INFJ Forum

If Jesus didn't die on the cross then....

I believe in the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The Anointed One is God the Son, Jesus.
You may not believe this and that's fine. As I said before it is logical to ask your questions of god. Which god, if any, is up to you.

Yes. I interpret your wordplay as mocking. When you say crucifixation/crucifiction you imply that belief in the significance of the crucifixion is a fixation or fiction. Therefore you mock the beliefs of billions who believe that Jesus saved us from our sins through his crucificixion and resurrection. It's a shame in my opinion that you choose to do this because your question is quite interesting, when worded with crucifixion, and the discussion could be exciting.

This is why I suggest to you, decide on what it is you want, to play or to have a serious respectful discussion that followers of all religions can participate in without having their beliefs diminished.
 
I believe in the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The Anointed One is God the Son, Jesus.
You may not believe this and that's fine. As I said before it is logical to ask your questions of god. Which god, if any, is up to you.

Yes. I interpret your wordplay as mocking. When you say crucifixation/crucifiction you imply that belief in the significance of the crucifixion is a fixation or fiction. Therefore you mock the beliefs of billions who believe that Jesus saved us from our sins through his crucificixion and resurrection. It's a shame in my opinion that you choose to do this because your question is quite interesting, when worded with crucifixion, and the discussion could be exciting.

This is why I suggest to you, decide on what it is you want, to play or to have a serious respectful discussion that followers of all religions can participate in without having their beliefs diminished.

If you wish to start a thread to discuss whether it is possible to have a serious respectful discussion if it includes wordplay, then do so.
It has no relevance to the philosophical question asked for this thread and it is a fallacy.
Please stop derailing the thread.
 
'If Jesus didn't die on the cross then....
... what was the crucifixation about?'

He did die there, and he died there because he was a guy that people decided they wanted killed. 'Tis history.
 
If you wish to start a thread to discuss whether it is possible to have a serious respectful discussion if it includes wordplay, then do so.
It has no relevance to the philosophical question asked for this thread and it is a fallacy.
Please stop derailing the thread.

You asked for explanations. I gave them to you.

BTW, since this is supposedly a philosophical question, I believe it is customary to define the terms in the question. Would you mind defining
Jesus (it's a very common name after all); crucifixation and crucifiction (which isn't in the question but was introduced in your subsequent posts)?
 
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You know how they say "there are no dumb questions"? Well, it's not true. People who teach USE that exrpression to put their students at ease so that they will ask questions to clarify their understanding of the subject. So, it is a useful saying--but it's still not true. Asking "why do purple lunar elephants pick their noses" is a stupid question, obviously, and most likely would be asked by someone who is simply trying to stir the pot.

The fact that a minority of people believe something is not a good standard for it being a credible idea. Look how many people believe in reptilian shapeshifters invading from outer space. Of course, being a majority opinion is ALSO not a good standard. Whether a belief is credible has to do rather with factual evidence and good reasoning that show it is more probable than not.

Basically, people who were crucified died. That was the whole purpose of crucifixion. They were left there until they DID die. In other words, the only way someone could survive being crucified is (a) if some strong clever group of people arranged for a forceful rescue, or (b) if the crucifixion was playacting so that the intent is not to kill. And no one says that either of these is what happened to the J man.

Brite, it is obvious from your choice of words that this is not a question you take seriously or wish serious answers, so if I treat the thread as trolling, you can understand why. I supsect you were simply bored and trying to liven things up a bit. I'll leave further discussion of this to Willow.
 
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You know how they say "there are no dumb questions"? Well, it's not true. People who teach USE that exrpression to put their students at ease so that they will ask questions to clarify their understanding of the subject. So, it is a useful saying--but it's still not true. Asking "why do purple lunar elephants pick their noses" is a stupid question, obviously, and most likely would be asked by someone who is simply trying to stir the pot.

The fact that a minority of people believe something is not a good standard for it being a credible idea. Look how many people believe in reptilian shapeshifters invading from outer space. Of course, being a majority opinion is ALSO not a good standard. Whether a belief is credible has to do rather with factual evidence and good reasoning that show it is more probable than not.

Basically, people who were crucified died. That was the whole purpose of crucifixion. They were left there until they DID die. In other words, the only way someone could survive being crucified is (a) if some strong clever group of people arranged for a forceful rescue, or (b) if the crucifixion was playacting so that the intent is not to kill. And no one says that either of these is what happened to the J man.

Brite, it is obvious from your choice of words that this is not a question you take seriously or wish serious answers, so if I treat the thread as trolling, you can understand why. I supsect you were simply bored and trying to liven things up a bit. I'll leave further discussion of this to Willow.

"The fact that a minority of people believe something is not a good standard for it being a credible idea." The fact that a majority of people believe something is also not always a good standard for it being a credible idea. People used to believe the earth was flat. It is an 'Appeal to Belief' fallacy.
This isn't about whether a belief is credible or not. I'm not asking anyone to change their beliefs. The answer isn't 'well, I'm the one that believes the hardest/the most' for this hypothetical question. It is a hypothetical question and the inspiration for it, I have already explained ie some people don't believe he died on the cross. It doesn't require "facts" or "belief" to answer it. Simply logic and reasoning.

You base all the world religious beliefs on the standard of "Whether a belief is credible has to do rather with factual evidence and good reasoning that show it is more probable than not." Really? That would be interesting.

If you have a problem with people who believe that he didn't die on the cross ie the Cathars, certain Gnostics etc then I suggest you take it up with them. My beliefs are irrelevant to this question. It doesn't ask what you believe either. Whether Jesus "factually" died or did not die is irrelevant to this hypothetical question. You cannot answer this question from the position that he did die as it asks "If Jesus didn't die....,"
If you believe the question is stupid, then don't respond. That issue has already been addressed in this thread.

GracieRuth, it is obvious from your choice of word that you have not understood the question, that you are not taking it seriously or with to answer seriously.
If you think I'm trolling, then don't respond. It isn't compulsory to reply to this thread. dismissing the question due to your response to my wordplay is an 'ad hominem' fallacy, and against forum rules.
I suspect you are simply bored and trying to liven things up a bit.
If you don't wish to respond to the question, don't respond to this thread.
Please stop derailing the thread.
 
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I believe in the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The Anointed One is God the Son, Jesus.
You may not believe this and that's fine. As I said before it is logical to ask your questions of god. Which god, if any, is up to you.

Yes. I interpret your wordplay as mocking. When you say crucifixation/crucifiction you imply that belief in the significance of the crucifixion is a fixation or fiction. Therefore you mock the beliefs of billions who believe that Jesus saved us from our sins through his crucificixion and resurrection. It's a shame in my opinion that you choose to do this because your question is quite interesting, when worded with crucifixion, and the discussion could be exciting.

This is why I suggest to you, decide on what it is you want, to play or to have a serious respectful discussion that followers of all religions can participate in without having their beliefs diminished.

Thank you for sharing your beliefs. However, your beliefs and my beliefs are irrelevant to the question. It is only logical to ask your questions of god if there is a god and if the person believes in one and if they believe it is logical to ask their question of their god.

Your interpretation is your interpretation. Your reaction is under your control, or is this "Please Miss, they made me do it?" If you don't like the question, don't respond.
No, the wordplay doesn't imply that the significance of the crucifixion is a fiction. I explained 'crucifixation' as wordplay due to there being a fixation on the crucifixion. And crucifiction as it sounds like crucifixion. Since the question assumes that there was a crucifixion, it is illogical to state that the use of crucifiction implies that the crucifixion was a fiction.

The mockery is your interpretation. It is not implicit in the question or the use of the words. It is the reaction of the person reading it. And since there are many other world religions, belief systems, agnostics and atheists, I would suggest that it would be better for your blood pressure if you didn't take everyone else's beliefs or phrasing personally. What other people believe is what they believe, what you believe is what you believe.

All serious discussions must be respectful? All respectful discussions must be serious? No wordsmithery ever allowed? The discussion has already been interesting and doesn't need your approval for it to be so. How on earth does this question exclude any religion? There are enough denominations of Christianity and other religions already in existence. They believe what they believe, and you believe what you believe.
 
'If Jesus didn't die on the cross then....
... what was the crucifixation about?'

He did die there, and he died there because he was a guy that people decided they wanted killed. 'Tis history.

Thanks for your response. This is a hypothetical question inspired by certain people e.g. the Cathars, certain Gnostics etc who believe that Jesus did not die on the cross but went off and lived in France, but do not deny that he was crucified. So, if he didn't die, what was the point of the crucifiction?

You cannot answer this question from the position that he did die, since it asks "If Jesus didn't die....,"
 
At no point have I told you or anyone what to believe or not to regarding world religions, belief systems, agnostics or atheists.

There is an implication in your question which you care not to acknowledge. That's fine.

As you have found my reply enlightening so have I found yours.

Good luck with an answer to your question that pleases you.
 
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