Human Rights | INFJ Forum

Human Rights

S

Shai Gar

This thread isn't about the idea of what rights should we grant ourselves, but rather, what rights do we have?

Rights are something inherent, rather than something we'd like. The latter are privileges.

These are the three rights I believe all sapient creatures have:
  • To Take whatever you can take,
  • To Keep whatever you can defend,
  • To Take the consequences of your actions or inactions.

I do not think we have any more rights than those. What are your opinions on the matter?
 
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The way you worded the question there is only one answer, that which you gave, although I would change the third one to include only those consquences you can't avoid.

As a species we have the ability to consider the consequences of our actions to both ourselves and others, and as such the question of rights becomes much more than an intellectual exercise.
 
But they're not rights, what you're discussing. You're talking about a social contract.
 
But the only things we're entitled to, are those things which, without society, we'd have anyway.

They have to be self evident.
 
Shai Gar said:
But the only things we're entitled to, are those things which, without society, we'd have anyway.

They have to be self evident.
Click to expand...

thats your opinion, not mine.

something that's self evident is known to be true without having to prove it, its possible to argue that nothing is self evident, I'd say there are lots of things that are self evident.
 
Depends on the system you live in. If you mean natural rights as in an absence of a system, in which case there are no rights, only a rule and the rule is that might makes right.
 
Really? I'm not all that mighty, but I have a homemade pistol.

a 7' muscle bound brickshithouse boxer could come up to fight me and I'd win.

Wouldn't you therefore say that "applied intelligence + ruthlessness + cunning + speed = right"?
 
I believe all humans have the intrinsic right to live, so humans do not have a right to kill.

I believe all humans have the intrinsic right to feel as they feel.

I believe all humans have the intrinsic right to think as they want.
 
Have you seen the Universal Declaration of human rights?

everything in the world seems to go against it.
 
  • All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
People exploit each other. Or they go all Billy saying they have nothing to do with one another so no.

Article 2.


  • Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
No. There is sexism, racism, homophobia. And those things are specially blunt in certain places. There are different visa laws for people with different nationalities and people get treated badly or treated like criminals and taken rights away for being "illegal" in a certain territory - which is discriminating towards their nationality so no, we don't get this one either.

Article 3.


  • Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
well, i guess they forgot to mention that you only have the right to life if you can pay for it in the us.

Article 4.


  • No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Tell that to those kids working 16 hours a day sewing sneakers in Indonesia.

Article 5.


  • No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Let's think about Guantanamo for a bit.

Article 6.


  • Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
well, not if someone decides that throwing bombs in your house is defending their national security.

Article 7.


  • All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Unless of course you're muslim and we need to accuse you of terrorism.

Article 8.


  • Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
oh we're gonna have to think about guantanamo again?

Article 9.


  • No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Again?
 
Article 10.


  • Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Unless again, they're muslim or we kill them first.

Article 11.


  • (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
  • (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Oh guantanamo!

Article 12.


  • No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Unless your goverment decides that reading your e-mail is national security's business.
 
Article 22.


  • Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
doesn't health care go in this?
 
Article 24.


  • Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
 
Enforcement of what are deemed rights is also an issue. If a law concerning those rights isn't enforced, then...
 
I am just thinking of the irony of certain places like the us or european nations always saying certain countries have "little regard for human rights" when they don't respect the declaration themselves.

And sorry threadstarter, I am a little insane today, haven't got much idea of what I am posting.
 
Billy said:
Depends on the system you live in. If you mean natural rights as in an absence of a system, in which case there are no rights, only a rule and the rule is that might makes right.
Click to expand...

Shai Gar said:
Really? I'm not all that mighty, but I have a homemade pistol.

a 7' muscle bound brickshithouse boxer could come up to fight me and I'd win.

Wouldn't you therefore say that "applied intelligence + ruthlessness + cunning + speed = right"?
Click to expand...

Never got an answer...
 
The rights are totally subjective depending on your religion, or lack of.
 
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