Hobby Lobby Decision | INFJ Forum

Hobby Lobby Decision

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Skarekrow, Jun 30, 2014.

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  1. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    So the Supreme Court of the United States has brought down their ruling in regards to the Hobby Lobby/Conestoga vs. Burdell case.
    This is where Hobby Lobby and the like decided that they didn’t like the mandate brought forth by “Obamacare” that said they had to, under law, provide contraceptive services (birth-control, etc.) under the employee health plans that they provide.

    The SCOTUS sided with Hobby Lobby stating - “We must decide whether the challenged HHS [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services] regulations substantially burden the exercise of religion, and we hold that they do,” wrote Justice Samual Alito for the majority. “Government action that imposes a substantial burden on religious exercise must serve a compelling government interest, and we assume that the HHS regulations satisfy this requirement. But in order for the HHS mandate to be sustained, it must also constitute the least restrictive means of serving that interest, and the mandate plainly fails that test.”


    In other words Alito said the part of the Affordable Care Act that requires private employers to provide contraception was too strict. The law already exempted non-profit religious organizations such as Catholic Hospitals. But that distinction which treated non-profits and private corporations differently, conservative Christians argued that ANYTHING requiring birth-control violated their religious liberty.

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote the dissenting argument - “In a decision of startling breadth, the Court holds that commercial enterprises, including corporations, along with partnerships and sole proprietorships, can opt out of any law (saving only tax laws) they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs,” her dissent began. “The exemption sought by [Christian businesses] Hobby Lobby and Conestoga would override significant interests of the corporations’ employees and covered dependents. It would deny legions of women who do not hold their employers’ beliefs access to contraceptive coverage that the ACA would otherwise secure.”

    So now we have one side that says -
    “The Supreme Court just ruled 5-4 that CORPORATIONS have a 'religious' right to discriminate against their employees.”
    And another side that says -
    “This ruling is a victory for anyone who believes in limited government and freedom of conscience rights or religious liberty.”

    In my own opinion this ruling not only deprives women of the right to contraception, but more frightening is that the court set the standard of affirming corporations “personhood” status, giving corporations so-called “religious liberty” while taking religious freedom away from their employees at the expense of women’s health.
    Corporate religious rights are now more powerful than the individual right to privacy. Which issue, after women’s contraception will be targeted next?
    We could easily see the LGBT community targeted with such a ruling...this has given business corporations a broad right to use religion as justified discrimination.

    The truly sad part of the contraceptive issue is that once again, millions of the poor and most vulnerable who cannot afford contraception as easily as a middle-class worker, will be hit the hardest. This case was won with junk-science and non-factual information being argued such as referring to emergency contraception as an “abortion causing drug” when in fact the morning after pill works no differently than regular birth-control pills do by preventing fertilization of the egg.

    Moreover, in a free society, birth-control is about personal health (yes many women take the pill for other reasons besides not getting pregnant), medicine and science, not religion. This is a perversion of religious freedom, our values of religious freedom and tolerance were meant to protect the people from being terrorized by the government and businesses…the freedom of religion not only protects one’s own religious preferences but allows us to be free from the imposition of someone else’s religious beliefs.
    The right-wing groups are always up in arms and fear mongering against Sharia Law being imposed on us…they just made is easier for that to happen (brilliant!).
    Why do we continue down this path that gives the corporations (the places where we work) so much unchecked power?



    What is your own opinion on the matter?


     
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    #1 Skarekrow, Jun 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
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  2. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    My opinion is Hobby Lobby isn't even a Christian business. I wouldn't have allowed it to bring that in.

    If it were up to me, I'd have ruled that a business is not allowed to claim denomination for legal purposes unless the majority of services it offers are overtly and obviously exclusive to that denomination or religion.
     
  3. Nixie

    Nixie Resurrected

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    I agree.

    I think the overt method of giving/recognizing human rights to corporations is wrong.

    A lot of people spend a lot of time, effort and money to push the US toward a Christian state.
     
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  4. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    Yes. It's using business as a means of political leverage. You can see this when the business only comes out as "Christian" when the owner encounters something they don't approve of. Otherwise it's just an arts and crafts store.
     
  5. Stu

    Stu Pre-Pottery B Neolithocrat
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    does this mean that corporations are free to decline spousal benefits to same sex married folks?
     
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  6. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    The funny thing is (by funny I mean fucked up) Viagra, penis pumps, erection implants, and vasectomies are all still covered for men…whereas a woman can now be denied having her tubes-tied under the guise of "religious freedom”. Utter bullshit.
     
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  7. Nixie

    Nixie Resurrected

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    Yes, now I will never shop at Hobby Lobby again. I loved that store too. :( I also don't buy gas from BP. If I do decide to indulge in pizza, I never buy from Papa Johns either (he came out against universal healthcare saying he would cut back worker hours so he wouldn't have to pay).

    I think the idea of corporations having "rights" is ridiculous anyway but to give a for-profit organization the ability to claim a religious preference/ideology? Ridiculous.

    I think part of the ruling talked about how their are provisions for how people can get contraceptives available so that was their rationale for saying this company didn't have to pay for them....I will have to re-read the article.
     
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  8. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    I can almost guarantee that someone is going to try it and that it will be next up on the Supreme Court chopping block.
     
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  9. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Here is what Thomas Jefferson said about this subject -

    “Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
    We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”
    ~Thomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists (1808)
     
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  10. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    Corporate personhood was originally invented so that the entity could legally be represented and have interests in court as it pertains to lawsuits and such. It legally allows a corporation to sue, and to be sued, which is kind of important.

    However it was never intended to have individual rights like a real person does. For example the corporate person is not allowed to vote.
     
  11. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    These rulings are a direct result of Citizen’s United, where Corporations are people and this is only the beginning of what is to come.

    Unless we as democratic Americans amend to repeal Citizens United that is supported by Fringe-wing Republicans and the wealthy Oligarchs that line their pockets…we will quickly lose our ability to be a Constitutional Democracy and move towards a Constitutional Monarchy with 5 Paid Supreme Court Justices in control...Judicial review is not legal!

    The founding Fathers through the Constitution gave the Congress the right to regulate the Supreme Court...and the Supreme Court as we speak, is actually regulating the Congress. The Constitution is not a set of Laws... it is a Charter for Governance. It is an operating system...it's not the Application. The Constitution is not the Ultimate Law of the Land...it is the Charter for this country. All the Articles, all the amendments and even the Bill of Rights have Laws that are associated with them, but they are not laws standing on their own.
     
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  12. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    Yes. This is all political BS. It effectively allows the owner of a company to vote many times over instead of once. They can lobby (no pun intended) as their own self, and as the company alter ego, with all the power and ability to effect employees and customers behind it.
     
  13. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Well…not only has it allowed them to buy votes (Citizen’s United), but it has allowed them to spend as much money as they want to throw at it (McCutcheon decision), now it is giving them free will to discriminate on religious grounds (Hobby Lobby)! WTF?!
    Have we gone totally bonkers? Corporations are NOT people!
    They never were, and never will be! Those rules were in place to preserve our democracy…and now, they have gone up in smoke.
    It’s all about the money.
    I feel sick…
     
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    #13 Skarekrow, Jul 1, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
  14. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    [video=vimeo;99036119]http://vimeo.com/99036119[/video]
     
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  15. the

    the Si master race.
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    This will later be used as a good justification for state religion.
     
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  16. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    According to the SCOTUS, corporations are people.... but women are not.

    Corporations pretty much own the federal government now. It is impossible for someone who genuinely supports labor or regular people to win an election.
     
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  17. the

    the Si master race.
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    #freekenthovind
     
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  18. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    No!
     
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  19. the

    the Si master race.
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    Why not? He had a religious objection to income taxes. Fairs fair all the way around.
     
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    #19 the, Jul 1, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
  20. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    That's not why he's in prison though. He's in prison because his supposed religious objection was completely a front and a fraudulent abuse of the system.

    If he was actually for real they probably wouldn't have put him in prison (they still probably would've took all his stuff though)
     
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