Having a stable sense of identity
- Thread starter barbad0s
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I think as you move on in your life, you think less in terms of the mask defines me and more often accept that you may have to wear masks sometimes or be a shapeshifter to maneuver different situations, but in the end, you're still yourself. Wearing a mask or being fluid, trying on various masks, doesn't mean your identity isn't real or centered. It's a nice feeling being settled within yourself about who you are.
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I have some core aspects of myself that I consider my "stable identity". Beyond those, everything else is flexible. For me, the stable part of my identity is what is left when everything else is stripped away; this is the core of who I am; what I know to be true about myself. Kind of like the anatomy of Earth. The outer layers are subject to fluctuation but the core is stable.
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I believe everyone has this inner core whether they are aware of it or not. Each individual seems to have inherent aspects unique to themselves. Maybe partly shaped by personality tendencies and partly by environmental influences; I'm not really sure. This is not to say the core of who I am cannot change, but it would take considerable effort to change it. Whereas, other surface aspects of who I am are more fluid. For me the key is to be stable but remain flexible.
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I believe everyone has this inner core whether they are aware of it or not. Each individual seems to have inherent aspects unique to themselves. Maybe partly shaped by personality tendencies and partly by environmental influences; I'm not really sure. This is not to say the core of who I am cannot change, but it would take considerable effort to change it. Whereas, other surface aspects of who I am are more fluid. For me the key is to be stable but remain flexible.
it's an interesting question and do i think its necessary for life? no, there is debate about whether or not babies are born with a sense of identity, and according to object relations theory no they dont, its a sort of intellectual achievement. the infant doesn't exist as separate until the brain decides there are things in its experience separate from itself, because without you there is no me, and these relationships between one idea and another idea form the very core and make up of our personality, thus the term object relations. is it necessary for development? probably, but according to the buddha, dalai lama, or any other modern spiritual guru the idea/feeling that constitutes every personalities sense of identity isn't necessary for adults to function or act within society, that is unless these gurus are horrible liars.
your last question about development i think is more related to a sense of self, whereas identity can be seen as separate from that. sense of self being a question of individuation and autonomy, not identity. and this is different for some personalities such as the schizoid or markedly narcissistic personalities who are often plagued with feelings of unreality and emptiness. most researchers or gurus agree that a unified sense of self is necessary on the path towards either a more successful and fulfilling life in the case of the modern psychologist or towards non-existence and liberation in the case of the gurus.
so to answer your question, from what i understand if your personality has a predominance of schizoid or narcissistic tendencies (all personalities have these, some more than others) the likeliness that there will be some sort of leveling out or more cohesive sense of individuality is unlikely to happen on it's own, though i don't know that for sure. and there are definitely many ways to work towards a more prominent sense of self.
I believe I have this. I used to think that I was just an empty vessel and there was nothing within me to hold onto. I am now coming to realize that's not true. Once I realized the underlying "theme" of my personality and who I am it was like my whole life lit up and changed for the better. I don't feel lost anymore.
I don't think it's necessary. You can still walk through life without settling on an identity, but I do think at some point people need to look at themselves and the baseline, fundamental way they've gone through their lives. I think most people who do not have an "identity" are those who are still clinging to ideas of what they should be rather than what they are. That will eventually end up being a problem and lead to a great deal of unhappiness and anxiety. I think that for the most part a true "self" or "identity" is always there, developing as we go and experience life but sometimes it just takes longer for people to see it for what it is and accept in and let go of ideals and what they think they should be or what they think others think they should be.
Yes.
I look at it this way. Identity is not me. Identity is my drivers license. Social security number, birth certificate. These things can be stolen, and they some times are. That's identity insofar that even a trout, herring, or octopus has identity.
I do know what I perceive to be myself as I have a sameness in varying situations over time. I don't call that identity, because nobody needs to see it, so who needs to identify me? Myself? I already have.
I'm individuated in that only I have this particular instanced collection of matter and energy and personality quirks. Others can pretend to have my identity but only I can have my self, such as it is.
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Also I don't think one wants to realize what they perceive to be core parts of them which cannot be stripped away, but they in fact can be stripped away. It sucks when it happens to you, and leads you to wonder what you actually do know about yourself. Trust me on that one.
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I don't think i really have one, so i'm not sure i'm qualified to answer about what it's like.
Do I think it's necessary? Not absolutely, but it sure helps.
How are we defining stable, anyway? Almost everyone's sense of self changes though the course of life, yes?
Do I think it's necessary? Not absolutely, but it sure helps.
How are we defining stable, anyway? Almost everyone's sense of self changes though the course of life, yes?
It's not that it's something "necessary," it's just something that happens. "You embrace that which defines you" (Donna Cook quote), which rings true. You surround yourself, immerse yourself in the things you enjoy, dress how you want to dress, do the things you love doing. Your personality, interactions with others and the world, etc. is your identity.
"Unstable" identities usually is part of the coming-of-age process; it varies by person, though usually happens in the teen/early adult years as you find out more about the world and grow. That's why you'll see someone going through "goth phase," "prep phase" [insert clique here] phase. Once you stop trying to become part of a group, you just go for whatever you think reflects yourself, and that becomes part of your identity. /ramble
*edit: varies by person
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Ive enjoyed all the posts in this thread.
I dont really know how to answer the question though. I do have a sense of self but i dont really relate to having a stable sense of identity. And i think having a stable sense of identity could both be a positive and negative thing depending on what that identity is.
I am aware of myself. I can 'feel' myself. But when i try to think of my identity i dont really know how to explain it. Most of my personality traits seem to be contradictory. i do sometimes feel like a million different people. And im always changing. Or different depending on my environment.
Thats why i like systems like mbti and tarot, because they're about general archetypes. An archetype isnt who you are, its simply a pattern that you can relate to. Its not definite or absolute. Its shifting and evolving.
I think self awareness is the key, recognising what you think, percieve, believe, value, say, do etc and constantly questioning it and taking responsibility for it. Seeing if you are happy with who you are right now and how you can change it if you are not.
I had a really powerful meditation experience that completely changed my life where i went deep into myself and there was nothing but awareness. It was incredible, beautiful and powerful. The awareness was Love and it was All That Is. This awareness is who i am, or the core of who i am. everything else is fluid and relative. I also believe and know that we are One. I think we are here to create/experience/be who we are/or who we 'think' we are. In that sense i think we have the opportunity to constantly evolve to become the person we really want/choose to be.
I dont really know how to answer the question though. I do have a sense of self but i dont really relate to having a stable sense of identity. And i think having a stable sense of identity could both be a positive and negative thing depending on what that identity is.
I am aware of myself. I can 'feel' myself. But when i try to think of my identity i dont really know how to explain it. Most of my personality traits seem to be contradictory. i do sometimes feel like a million different people. And im always changing. Or different depending on my environment.
Thats why i like systems like mbti and tarot, because they're about general archetypes. An archetype isnt who you are, its simply a pattern that you can relate to. Its not definite or absolute. Its shifting and evolving.
I think self awareness is the key, recognising what you think, percieve, believe, value, say, do etc and constantly questioning it and taking responsibility for it. Seeing if you are happy with who you are right now and how you can change it if you are not.
I had a really powerful meditation experience that completely changed my life where i went deep into myself and there was nothing but awareness. It was incredible, beautiful and powerful. The awareness was Love and it was All That Is. This awareness is who i am, or the core of who i am. everything else is fluid and relative. I also believe and know that we are One. I think we are here to create/experience/be who we are/or who we 'think' we are. In that sense i think we have the opportunity to constantly evolve to become the person we really want/choose to be.
I don't know what it's like to have a stable identity......I've always been a chameleon (or tried to be one). I've always felt that everyone else has a stable identity and I'm the only one who doesn't. I've always tried to change to fit exactly what situation I'm in, and I've always been terrified of defining myself to be a certain way. This leaves me feeling like I'm nothing and nobody.
I have now at least recognized that I do this, and accepted the fact that I am only one person, not a chameleon, and that I don't have to try to change to fit everything, and that it's okay to define myself.
I have now at least recognized that I do this, and accepted the fact that I am only one person, not a chameleon, and that I don't have to try to change to fit everything, and that it's okay to define myself.
Necessary to life? No. Necessary to life satisfaction? No, not an entire formed identity or fully stable one.
It's not really necessary, I think. But if you really want to be happy and comfortable fully in yourself and the social systems, then, yes, it's needed. Even if it's only half of one. Because having an identity is what sets you apart from all the other humans (or cakes, according to [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] - Good analogy btw). Without a social system or society...we wouldn't need much of one, would we? However, it does exist in us. We have traits from the Nature side of the Nature vs. Nurture argument. And Nurture isn't so much how we were raised but collective experiences from interaction with...well, life. We have our own ways of functioning and our own realities. No denying that. But most of the pressure to form an identity is from the pressure of the society on the individual. We all have one already. Just we aren't all aware of it, due to life inexperience, not enough knowledge on certain subjects, etc.
Personally, I want to know myself more. Look at myself from the outside and just come to know "me". Little hard to do that because, you know, I'm the subject. Haha. But I hate the idea of waiting and you'll discover yourself that way. That's a good way to do it but so inefficient. But I'm comfortable with waiting. I have a very balanced faith (logically consistent in itself and the world outside of it and emotionally fulfilling) and by really looking into the belief systems and arriving at the same conclusions...it helps a lot. "I believe this, this, this and that and here's why." on lots of matters. Not to mention, you know, the whole personality system that unites us on here? Yeah, that helps, too. Even things I haven't experienced yet and I don't understand what is meant. After some more thinking or social interaction, I realize I feel/think/act quite similar. Example: "Basically, love for an INTJ, means they include you in their vision of the world." I was going over my 3 decade some life plan thusfar with another INFJ. And when discussing marriage/dating briefly, it clicked and I thought back to that idea on a couple INTJ relationships/profile pages I've read. "I understand now. I have this vision of my life. And, things I've come to love in this world, I include in it." No one person yet but one day...maybe. And they'd be a special person, indeed.
No matter what, though, I'm still me. Individual and unique thoughts, feelings, and reality. And there will be no other existence exactly like my own. And I'm determined, that since I'm here, existing and all that, mine-as-well make the most of it and be content.
It's not really necessary, I think. But if you really want to be happy and comfortable fully in yourself and the social systems, then, yes, it's needed. Even if it's only half of one. Because having an identity is what sets you apart from all the other humans (or cakes, according to [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] - Good analogy btw). Without a social system or society...we wouldn't need much of one, would we? However, it does exist in us. We have traits from the Nature side of the Nature vs. Nurture argument. And Nurture isn't so much how we were raised but collective experiences from interaction with...well, life. We have our own ways of functioning and our own realities. No denying that. But most of the pressure to form an identity is from the pressure of the society on the individual. We all have one already. Just we aren't all aware of it, due to life inexperience, not enough knowledge on certain subjects, etc.
Personally, I want to know myself more. Look at myself from the outside and just come to know "me". Little hard to do that because, you know, I'm the subject. Haha. But I hate the idea of waiting and you'll discover yourself that way. That's a good way to do it but so inefficient. But I'm comfortable with waiting. I have a very balanced faith (logically consistent in itself and the world outside of it and emotionally fulfilling) and by really looking into the belief systems and arriving at the same conclusions...it helps a lot. "I believe this, this, this and that and here's why." on lots of matters. Not to mention, you know, the whole personality system that unites us on here? Yeah, that helps, too. Even things I haven't experienced yet and I don't understand what is meant. After some more thinking or social interaction, I realize I feel/think/act quite similar. Example: "Basically, love for an INTJ, means they include you in their vision of the world." I was going over my 3 decade some life plan thusfar with another INFJ. And when discussing marriage/dating briefly, it clicked and I thought back to that idea on a couple INTJ relationships/profile pages I've read. "I understand now. I have this vision of my life. And, things I've come to love in this world, I include in it." No one person yet but one day...maybe. And they'd be a special person, indeed.
No matter what, though, I'm still me. Individual and unique thoughts, feelings, and reality. And there will be no other existence exactly like my own. And I'm determined, that since I'm here, existing and all that, mine-as-well make the most of it and be content.
This has always been a curious topic to me. I have heard people say both that I don't know who I am and that I know exactly who I am. From my perspective, who I am is simply not that complicated. I don't think my internal sense of identity has radically shifted since I was a child.
I see other people go through these phases and epiphanies that make me think the pursuit of identity is important for them. This seems to involve everything from taste in music, products they own, sexual orientation, religion, and all kinds of other things. I have tastes, perspectives, acquisition of new knowledge, and group memberships but these things do not become internalized for me.
I think it's funny when I hear someone say, "I'm the type of guy who..." I wonder what makes them that type of person. If they listen to music that I do, how do they become a "type" of person and I don't? It's not that I like stuff more or less than they do but I do think it's odd that sometimes people seem to let taste in one thing prevent them from exploring another thing. The "type of guy who likes metal" sometimes finds listening to jazz or country to be at odds with his identity. This all seems so crazy to me but I witness similar things in most people.
When we talk about identity, I find that people have trouble defining what exactly it is they're talking about. I think people often mean different things from each other and call it by the same name. For most it seems ambiguous and any solidity they find in either the definition of the word or their personal identities seems only temporary.
So, in addition to saying how important it is to you and whether it keeps changing, can you explain what it is? Could you explain identity as if you were talking to someone who doesn't have one?
I see other people go through these phases and epiphanies that make me think the pursuit of identity is important for them. This seems to involve everything from taste in music, products they own, sexual orientation, religion, and all kinds of other things. I have tastes, perspectives, acquisition of new knowledge, and group memberships but these things do not become internalized for me.
I think it's funny when I hear someone say, "I'm the type of guy who..." I wonder what makes them that type of person. If they listen to music that I do, how do they become a "type" of person and I don't? It's not that I like stuff more or less than they do but I do think it's odd that sometimes people seem to let taste in one thing prevent them from exploring another thing. The "type of guy who likes metal" sometimes finds listening to jazz or country to be at odds with his identity. This all seems so crazy to me but I witness similar things in most people.
When we talk about identity, I find that people have trouble defining what exactly it is they're talking about. I think people often mean different things from each other and call it by the same name. For most it seems ambiguous and any solidity they find in either the definition of the word or their personal identities seems only temporary.
So, in addition to saying how important it is to you and whether it keeps changing, can you explain what it is? Could you explain identity as if you were talking to someone who doesn't have one?
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I've noticed the same thing. I like hip hop occasionally, but I don't necessarily belong to a group of people who enjoy hip hop or wear hip hop costumes or use the lingo or do anything special to identify with it. Because honestly my tastes and opinions change. As God once said, "I am who I am." I don't need to pin my identity down to a particular view of things, even if my general being stay the same.