Gun lobby rather than how a demented person can go so far unquestioned and answered, again

[Ifur]

Have no idea, but perhaps mandatory boot camp or hell week as a mental health check for assault rifles.
Only if you don't crack under pressure and take of those arround you to get through it.

The rhetoric always seems to go nowhere, perhaps proving to be badass for a badass weapon where only realstic use is in militia or some such para military.

The reason why is that it essentially doesn't happen that an unstable person gets through commando training or hell week especially with flying colours.
Because you need to take crap, and help others get through it and take personal risks to stay in a group that can make it.

Where a mentality to heroically wield assault rifles against unarmed civilians to then cooperatively throw down and surrender isn't it.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I'm not sure that a boot camp (even hell week strenuous) would necessarily weed out psychopaths. That kind of crazy takes dedication.

 

[Ifur]

I'm not sure that a boot camp (even hell week strenuous) would necessarily weed out psychopaths. That kind of crazy takes dedication.

Maybe not, but special forces training does, but then again, fewer players make it through that than fighter pilot training. And it would weed out narcisists as they also would reduce chances for the rest of the group, psychopaths without seriousl personality disorders and aren't demented generlly arent a problem. Personality disorders is a serious libability to get through the mental side, and just to own one at home rather than a gun range doesnt need stenous physical testing as a main driver.

 

[Ifur]

I've heard numbers like 1 in 1000 making it through special forces training, or at least 1 in 300 for the physical and mental requirements.
You don't make it through hell week as the last person standing, but can be as the person that never says, "enough" and quits.

Important part is showing and testing ability to take crap and at the still time help each other as this is a personal and social attitude needed.
Those that can handle it well enough to take some of the crap with and for others are more likel to make it.
Just because of this, public places with regular citizens inreasingly gets removed as targets the higher the bar is set, even if you assume psychos and politically motivated gets through.
So you may get, "believe in the constitional right", and "the people has a right, not just military", rather than, "I have an assault rifle for the liberal scum", and you certainly don't get, "because I'm special and others deserve it....".

For hunting rifles, well, but assault rifles? Yeah, hell week, and pretty severe to check mental health and sincereity.

 

[Ifur]

After a few minutes of a debate on this, it's both ridiculous and a bit humorous that sentiments like looking for answers being a danger sign in the very same context and exchange where expressions of sympathy by asking how things are as if perception of discomfort and unease is enough.
This is something anyone that has ever read classical litterature in philosophy or politics can attest to being a problem, the answer is not to rationalise whatever has been dragged into it.
Having had a few existential crisis, all the things not understood doesn't help, and explaining exactly how laws are being broken and likewise getting dismissed, but why aren't you ok with that, the state must have a reason to break laws?

There are differences between knee jerk reactions from disgruntled individuals, and reponses to negative emotions and attitudes of others. Those that stigmatise the introverted also tend to be the ones that sees being introverted as an illness on equal terms with being closed down and socially isolated person with extroverted attitudes.

Not to derail my own thread, but there are so many inane problems around popular psychology and the things involved here, not to mention that in most of these tragedies its moving from one "ideological team" or fringe movement to another in attempts to find something to belong to, rather than having any genuine interests.

Might be that many of the problems around is for being introverted, such that it's safer for everyone that I don't get to do anything with my life. Will be interesting to find out, I've gathered an impressive amounts of laws broken by state employees that come with jailtime.

 

[Tin Man]

I know this is a strange statement. But how about just not selling assault or semi-assault rifles?

 

[Ifur]

I know this is a strange statement. But how about just not selling assault or semi-assault rifles?

Much better! And assume this relates to states and the people in them having the right to guns and to form home guard or militia when the military is federal.
Perhaps a compromise put in there or something? Not a constitutional historian, and it doesn't make much sense as historically, professional armies are more effective.

I agree, if one has to do compromises, at least measure that keeps them out of the hands of the unstable without doing silly things like giving free psychatric meds with the pruchase to keep them pacified.

 

[Ifur]

Not going to justify any of this, but in a gun happy country with a federal military and a constitution that give a right to guns, this problem isn't likely to go away.
Military is also a necessity and identifiable feature of a state or nation, so many states with their history may just cling to this.
While waiting on glorification of romantic ideals and economic interests to go away, a license for assault rifle that involves testing the psyche as is done in the army might be welcomed as a badge of honor and will reduce easy access military weapons.

Psychology for this especially does not work and never will, a significant portion of these things are done on perscriptions to begin with. What may work is an experience where the psyche gets tested in a group of others seeking to prove or get the same qualification that test for things not amount of conversations ever will.

 

[Ifur]

More importantly, perhaps ban these stories in national and international media as to leave it to the communities to deal with as much as possible, as normal people that can think for themselves don't deal with problems anywhere near these things.
And looking at a list of deadliest mass shootings since 1949 almost all of the earlier ones were former army and survivalists and similar things, more likely to be closer to private Pyle than anything else, which explains a mind set and why they reach for solutions by guns.
Wonder why not more of the recent ones have been blamed by media and their focus and attention that contribute towards making it a competition among the deranged to get the most coverage for the largest tragedy to mirror their personal feelings and delusions.

And I'm certain the earliest shootings by former Army people that are nowhere near anything done with assault rifles would not have made it through the equivalent of a proper "hell week or two".

 

[David54]

there is no reason for a civilian to own an assault weapon. Outlaw them, there is no reason for them. .and don't tell me about the 2nd amendment, that is so antiquated it should be removed from the constitution as being pointless.

 

[Ifur]

there is no reason for a civilian to own an assault weapon. Outlaw them, there is no reason for them. .and don't tell me about the 2nd amendment, that is so antiquated it should be removed from the constitution as being pointless.

So let it get worse first then, where police refuse to risk their lives for being carrying assault rifles, lock stock and barrel with bjonettes.
There are quite a lot of problems with the federal government that isn't going to allow doing something about the 2nd amendment.
Also, needing to fight zombies is a valid reason to carry assault rifles, all I'm proposing is to introduce a bad ass mental health check!

 

[Faye]

Or we could just ban assault rifles. :/

 

[Ifur]

Or we could just ban assault rifles. :/

And we could stop "helping" Africa by arming warlords with AK-47's and dropping food and medicine over their heads for population control whole they sell raw resources on the cheap.

 

[Sandie33]

assault rifles.

Should not be sold to civilians. Period.

 

[Ifur]

Should not be sold to civilians. Period.

Tell that to the military that does just that all over the world and call it war.

 

[Ifur]

To derail this, based in the very little information from media about the incident at a mosque in Oslo.
Information so far seem to say it was a white male around 21, and a 17 year old female.
Kept repeating concern and measurements for the muslim community, indicating it may be a crime of passion involving a muslim woman.
It could be, and it's been presented all over international media under the assumption it was a hate crime.
Where it could have gone terribly wrong were perhaps the central part is being rejected by this girl and blaming the religion.
(the girl died, a 75 year was injured and the perp subdued).

It wasn't "concern for the families left behind after the deceased", was "muslim community" and emergency meetings on how to deal with this in local community.

To abuse this for "political gain" here, "I did not suffer the right to have an AR-15" at home to use it against others, of course it does something.

 

[Sandie33]

Tell that to the military that does just that all over the world and call it war.

Every chance I get.
The military connections I have didn't knickname me Soapbox Sally for being silent.

 

[just me]

If the military and national guard have them, I will have them. This sounds like sheeple talk to me. Liberals and Democrats sound like terrorists:" let's disarm the public." Pshaw. I own several AKs and M4s. I enjoy honing my skills with them. I'd rather have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them. People do not understand the importance of our being armed. I enjoy them at the range.

Idiots? Psychopaths? They would just use a truck bomb. I mean, don't you guys watch the news? I could name 20 more ways for those people to kill and maim people, but don't want to have anyone get ideas. Much more danger out there we just don't have a clue. Anyone that knows street people can buy guns. Ban them, and the street people can raise their prices. There will always be guns in America, and it is a deterrence to any invading force in the world. Just think: an airline loaded with passengers into the Pentagon. We are naive from Liberal teaching and people playing on their phones and computers, that we have our heads up our arses.

Special forces training? There just are not a lot of folks capable of that. Not a lot of folk pass it. "Assault rifles" is used in politics. We use the terms "AK-47" and "M4". I have never said I owned an assault weapon in my life.

You guys want to tell BATF&E, ATF for short, how to do their jobs? Stop your liberal BS in the media. Crazy people do crazy things. Change the Form 4473 used when a person "legally" buys a firearm, and the person will buy it somewhere else or steal it.
CRAZY!!! If someone really wants to cause harm or mayhem, they will.

 

[wiredandwound]

 

[Ifur]

Looks like another case of competence among official that warrants spanking.
At an arts college type thing where co students were worried nd reporting him to teachers and principles for a talking to.
Apparantly he wanted 7 children for the coming race wars and in favour of segregation.
Principle didn't see a problem, neither did anti terror police.
Looks like another case of authorities not having education or required qualification for the minimum requirement of thought.

The deceased 17 year old was a step sister, middle name looks to be asian so might be mixed race.

He filmed with a gopro camera on a helmet.

Was very wrong here, good the authorities are assertive and that their IT tools are working, as not likely to find a picture of the step sister.

It's true special forces training is not something everyone passes, and it comes with priviledges of not being ordered to always have safety on.
Did not stop Norway from providing guns to police without safety that led to quite a few mis fires inside police stations especially.

After Breivik, it's pretty much anything gets paid for as long as a few people think its "cool" or agree, and nothing works better. Much like him, he gave permission to filming and couldn't stop smilling.

Sure, no warning signs, his co students didn't report it -- what they could do.
And nobody in a respected position bothered to talk to him.

Demented! Perhaps people in positions that warrants critical thinking thought he wasn't so different from themselves apart from some silly and harmless ideas and convictions.

An example of how one should consider going all out LoR and GoT on these people.
And more like Letter og Resignation for not able to be "faithful and lojal to the constituton and oath of office and the requirement for reasoning", and as in "gott" or "good" or "godt", in monarchies, "the king or queen" is an abstrct entitity that is carried around for the oath of the nation, so "one king in government" at a time. The point is personal responsibility, and not being the agreeable and safe person. If you got with a concern to someone with an oath of office, they should be expected to be able and always look into it.

In High Performance Computing, especially in academia, there is a joke often repeated when it comes to new hardware co-processors. "Have you find anyone to tie down to?", Because it needs to show use, and publications made to show this, preferably someone with a grant that can get favourable conditions on prices for developing code to run on it.

Have the police and anti-terror departments that blindly trust the system and check nothing, have they found anyone to tie down to show that the tools are infallable and that statistics is the pinnacle of science, erh, social science....?

I do here in this thread have an indutive argument concerning early mass shootings targeting civilians rather than government, business etc. Being former army and related individuals with exposure and habituation of weapons. And desensitvity to civilian life and rights. Where the phenomenon was catalysed by mass media as a platform for fame, not unlike the previous problem of gangs and robbers.

"Not a problem, he doesn't show up in our tools." Because running statistics to find a needle in the haystack where the most likely are perfectly average apart from latching on to thinks in some cases in hopes of being presented as better than they are. "Don't worry, our tools that runs statistics on all the singular exceptions among every one individual cannot fail, soon or later we will find the statistically perfect candidate to commit terror against civilians." Obviously, it cannot be a problem that there are too many people with nationalistic leanings, cultural and ethnic preferences to be included as a criteria.

Actually, scratch the last few bits, as deep learning and black box AI just gives you a number and doesn't actually care, and the signal in the data tend to be the quotes out of context from litterature. So Foccault quickly becomes a criteria if enough have mentioned him.
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1260.Michel_Foucault
Find quotes that can be copy pasted out of context to look more intelligent.

The funny part is that pretty much every manifest gets slaughtered by anyone that has read even a few paragraphs of the body of litterature that is used for appeals towaards credibility.
Should be a index of most often quoted works and authors in manifestos written by the lowest common denominator between ideology, personal identity, ideation of self-worth and critical thinking.

Another laughable example of what the state is doing, and expecting a long list of people that has comitted professional suicide with their convictions and incompetence in this case especially, as the guy seems to have tried to mimic the apperance of Breivik.