Failure To Forgive | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Failure To Forgive

I took a Communications course last semester that helped me out quite a bit in life during those months. There is a part about forgiveness:
Researchers have described forgiveness as the sense of peace and understanding that we experience when we stop blaming another person for a perceived wrong and instead interpret the transgression less personally, pardoning the other person. Forgiveness is not the equivalent to condoning unkindness; rather, it is a manifestation of the personal control we have over our lives, just as deciding whether or not to take offense in the first place is a choice.

Forgiveness is not the equivalent to condoning unkindness.

I must say though, it is a hell of a lot easier to forgive people when you understand them. I wouldn't say I've been able to forgive people who I don't understand. I either see them indifferently, with little spikes of hate, or try to disregard them all together. Forgiveness is not for the person who fucked you over, it is for you and your own sanity in moving on.
 
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Just to clarify a bit more. Forgiving doesn't mean condoning what needs forgiveness, nor does it mean that you have to keep associating with the person that requires forgiving.

I think the ultimate act of forgiveness is when you see people who had loved ones murdered and are able to forgive. That doesn't mean that the people who committed the crime get away with it if they are forgiven. They still have to go through the system and pay the price for what they have done. You can hold people accountable for wrongdoings while still forgiving them.

As for smaller transgressions, I have known people who couldn't forgive relatively small stuff even when the person was truly remorseful. In that case I think the person who won't forgive really needs to look at themselves in the mirror because obviously they don't understand that they probably need forgiveness at times as well and that they're the ones who don't deserve it if they can't forgive others. When I see that I always think "who the hell do you think you are to not forgive? somebody perfect who never makes mistakes?"

I always took these words very seriously: And Forgive us Our Trespasses, as we Forgive those who Trespass against Us
 
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DSM-5

"A mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities. An expectable or culturally approved response to a common stressor or loss, such as the death of a loved one, is not a mental disorder. Socially deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) and conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are not mental disorders unless the deviance or conflict results from a dysfunction in the individual, as described above."


In my own personal view, it depends how you define forgiveness that affects whether forgiveness would be a healthy thing or not in your life.
 
La Sagna said:
Just to clarify a bit more. Forgiving doesn't mean condoning what needs forgiveness, nor does it mean that you have to keep associating with the person that requires forgiving.

I think the ultimate act of forgiveness is when you see people who had loved ones murdered and are able to forgive. That doesn't mean that the people who committed the crime get away with it if they are forgiven. They still have to go through the system and pay the price for what they have done. You can hold people accountable for wrongdoings while still forgiving them.

As for smaller transgressions, I have known people who couldn't forgive relatively small stuff even when the person was truly remorseful. In that case I think the person who won't forgive really needs to look at themselves in the mirror because obviously they don't understand that they probably need forgiveness at times as well and that they're the ones who don't deserve it if they can't forgive others. When I see that I always think "who the hell do you think you are to not forgive? somebody perfect who never makes mistakes?"

I always took these words very seriously: And Forgive us Our Trespasses, as we Forgive those who Trespass against Us
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There is often no need to forgive. People make many things personal instead of seeing things as a product of circumstance. If someone keys my car, I do not get angry at them or expect 'justice' instead I question what brought them to this point in time as the person they are, doing the things they do. But even if this was done just to hurt me or get a reaction or to cause me to be full of anger, why would I give them the satisfaction of succeeding?

But perhaps I do not see people as people but as things... like the domino's that fall one after another it is expected and a product of cause and effect. Why would I forgive the last domino for falling when it is simply what it does. Perhaps this is the real disorder... to not need to forgive.
 
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If one shows the lack of emotion regulation while talking about specific people they might have problems with: could that show as anger?

I have witnessed people that show so much anger, and it lasts since they were wronged. I have seen this anger show the face of hatred. I have seen it cause depression, anxiety, self-doubt, low self-esteem; and, it never goes away. Physical problems can follow: nerves, digestive problems, and so on. Hate releases different chemicals than love. Anger stresses the body. Hatred distorts the mind's abilities to think clearly. It becomes more than a disorder in the mind. It becomes a physical disorder. It can be viewed as an illness or illnesses. It can send doctors on wild goose chases. It can send a person down a dark road.

Yes, I call it a type of failure. It disallows a person to live life at its fullest. Not forgiving oneself can be just as painfully damaging.
 
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just me said:
If one shows the lack of emotion regulation while talking about specific people they might have problems with: could that show as anger?

I have witnessed people that show so much anger, and it lasts since they were wronged. I have seen this anger show the face of hatred. I have seen it cause depression, anxiety, self-doubt, low self-esteem; and, it never goes away. Physical problems can follow: nerves, digestive problems, and so on. Hate releases different chemicals than love. Anger stresses the body. Hatred distorts the mind's abilities to think clearly. It becomes more than a disorder in the mind. It becomes a physical disorder. It can be viewed as an illness or illnesses. It can send doctors on wild goose chases. It can send a person down a dark road.

Yes, I call it a type of failure. It disallows a person to live life at its fullest. Not forgiving oneself can be just as painfully damaging.
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This is true I suppose but from my view people have what feelings they have. We can kind of cultivate our feelings but we can't choose them directly - or at least I can't.

If I'm angry it's because I'm angry. At that point it's already happened and I didn't ask for it, the best I can do is work with it. If we could choose how we feel before it happens then nobody would ever need care or support. Or forgiveness.

Because to forgive means to stop feeling resentful. If it's so important to not be resentful then why did you start in the first place if you can just control it?
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]
Also I forgive you. Do you remember that song you dedicated to me? I know it was more than two years ago. But I told you I would always remember that song, and I try not to say things that I don't mean. This is how I remember. I actually tried to listen to it just now but it was taken down on copyright - those bastards.
 
I dunno. Honestly I don't think it makes a difference. I think new ideas and time helps old ideas and feelings inevitably fade naturally and in a natural manner makes them sort of less relevant, whether or not a person admits or verbalizes this.
 
niffer said:
I dunno. Honestly I don't think it makes a difference. I think new ideas and time helps old ideas and feelings inevitably fade naturally and in a natural manner makes them sort of less relevant, whether or not a person admits or verbalizes this.
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This may very well be in most cases, though not all.
 
just me said:
If one shows the lack of emotion regulation while talking about specific people they might have problems with: could that show as anger?

I have witnessed people that show so much anger, and it lasts since they were wronged. I have seen this anger show the face of hatred. I have seen it cause depression, anxiety, self-doubt, low self-esteem; and, it never goes away. Physical problems can follow: nerves, digestive problems, and so on. Hate releases different chemicals than love. Anger stresses the body. Hatred distorts the mind's abilities to think clearly. It becomes more than a disorder in the mind. It becomes a physical disorder. It can be viewed as an illness or illnesses. It can send doctors on wild goose chases. It can send a person down a dark road.

Yes, I call it a type of failure. It disallows a person to live life at its fullest. Not forgiving oneself can be just as painfully damaging.
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This is the kind of scenario that I find interesting. These kinds of people get off on the feeling of electricity that runs through their mind and body when they are experiencing intense hate or anger followed by the sense of release and catharsis. These kinds of people tend to let things build up as they ruminate and create a snowball effect in their minds and then it snaps all at once in an angry outburst. It's not quite what I'd say is a mental illness and it's not quite about the inability to forgive. It's more like a backwards sort of coping mechanism where feelings of hurt/despair are translated into anger because it's more acute and easier to deal with because you can kind of let it all out in a Whoosh whereas feelings of hurt tend to be a bit more chronic and difficult to process.

The problem in these situations is that people often forget what it was they were upset about in the first place. That kind of anger is very superficial. It's like lighting a strand of hair on fire. It lights quick and burns out faster then it's gone... until the next hair is lit. So they're using anger as a coping mechanism without resolving their own underlying issues and sorting out what it is that's causing them to snap. Often at some point it has nothing to do with what originally upset them and they just learn that this is the way to deal with everything.

It doesn't begin as mental illness but when negative emotions and stress become chronic then naturally it will show up physiologically and psychologically. These types of people want to eye for an eye justice. They end up wanting someone thrown into the lions den just for looking at them the wrong way. I don't think they WANT to be like that but since they are not "sad" they just put the problem on everyone else and lash out. It's emotionally stunting.

I used to be this way for a very long time.
 
Did you have parental shadowing of this, or was it all your own?
 
I like the idea of reconciliation and forgiveness. However on a personal level, I am highly selective about who I forgive. Some people I shut out for life and others I let back in. It all depends on the circumstances and the person involved.
 
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