"F" type men, and "T" type women

J

James

Infamy, infamy.. they've all got it infamy
Retired Staff
MBTI
INFJ
Hi all,
having read through some other posts recently, I just wondered what experiences people have had with this situation, either as a male "F" type or female "T" type. The reason I ask, is that society seems to pigeon hole, men as being "T" type and women as being "F" type.

I think this has had quite an effect on my own life. I think as a man, you do feel pressure not to show emotion or empathetic in the way that women do. I think you also feel pressure to fit into male roles and behavior. Whilst I think I did resist this to some extent, I can't help but look back on my work choices and wonder how much I did follow a more 'male' route. I think I was always more borderline 60/40 "F" than a all the way "F" type so perhaps things were easier for me.

My ex was a definite "T" type, and I can't help but think she was probably more effected by it then I was. Society seems to be very critical of women who are more 'masculine' or less children/people orientated than others. It seems very unfair. Perhaps I am overstating things, but it does seem to have really made life hard at times, if you don't fit the expected role. I found an interesting article here that covers the MBTI gender divide quite well. http://www.slayerment.com/mbti-gender

Has this had any effect on you, or anyone you know ? I am curious to know what others think.
 
James said:
I think as a man, you do feel pressure not to show emotion or empathetic in the way that women do
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I struggled with this in my younger days. Trying to be a "man," suppressing emotions and trying not to care about...anything. It made me really miserable after awhile and didn't even realize I wasn't being me. I was just trying to fit into a role that everyone expected of me. Eventually, I took a good hard look at myself and realized that was crap. I started being myself, which means I care about people, relationships, life and love among many other things and I'm not ashamed to admit it. In fact, I demonstrate it in life the best I can. I don't hold back on my emotions. I cry at weddings, funerals, random expressions of love, pain, joy, etc. People I've known have said I've gone soft or whatever, but really I've gained strength. Being empathetic and actually caring about and respecting things has not made me more of a woman, but a better man. I believe all men could benefit from thinking/feeling like a woman. It's just called being human. I can put a new roof on my shed and I can cuddle a newborn, or eat chocolate and cry at soap operas...or whatever it is women do.
 
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Milktoast Bandit said:
I struggled with this in my younger days. Trying to be a "man," suppressing emotions and trying not to care about...anything. It made me really miserable after awhile and didn't even realize I wasn't being me. I was just trying to fit into a role that everyone expected of me. Eventually, I took a good hard look at myself and realized that was crap. I started being myself, which means I care about people, relationships, life and love among many other things and I'm not ashamed to admit it. In fact, I demonstrate it in life the best I can. I don't hold back on my emotions. I cry at weddings, funerals, random expressions of love, pain, joy, etc. People I've known have said I've gone soft or whatever, but really I've gained strength. Being empathetic and actually caring about and respecting things has not made me more of a woman, but a better man. I believe all men could benefit from thinking/feeling like a woman. It's just called being human. I can put a new roof on my shed and I can cuddle a newborn, or eat chocolate and cry at soap operas...or whatever it is women do.
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Excellent post @Milktoast Bandit I think abandoning the stereotype "male" image in my twenties was deeply liberating to me. I think gradually I just got totally fed up with the macho stupidity of it.

I still keep my emotions in check in public, but that's just my choice rather than going along with that image. But when I think it necessary to express myself ? Then I don't hold back. In terms of my actions, I think carefully, but I follow my conscience and values, whether that suits a male role, or not. To me those stereotypes are outdated and damaging. I think you only have to look how under represented women are in certain fields, like science or politics to see the harm it does. And as a result ? We lose the talent and abilities they would bring.
 
I'm a female F type with a balance of stereotypically "feminine" and "masculine" traits.
Also, women are "supposed" to have Fi, and men are "supposed" to have Fe, being a woman with Fe causes bewilderment.

Many, many people are very put off by my traits that are stereotyped as masculine. At times, this seems to erase the softer and stereotypically feminine traits in other's eyes. Even people who know me well and care about me will grill me about the masculine traits.
I don't think anything about me is masculine. I'm also comfortable being myself without compromising to fit in. Some adore me for this, others not so much. I'm sensitive, so of course I don't like being disliked, but I am unwilling to pretend to be something I am not to earn approval.
I'm accustomed to women who are T and adore them. I also find F an attractive trait in men.
The bigger and stronger a man is, the more he is allowed to be sensitive and compassionate. Most of my male friends who are over 6 feet, and strong, are openly sensitive, compassionate, say "I love you" to their friends more often, etc. Who would challenge them for it? Shorter and smaller men have to wear more behavioral layers to appear manly. It's ridiculous, especially because the big men who show their feelings are applauded for it.

From my POV, most men are sensitive. They're just trained not to show it. I know many T men, and they are all kind, caring, sensitive people, they just save it for a smaller group of individuals than Fs. If my T husband cares about you, he will outshine my compassion and go out of his way to help you to an extreme. It is just unlikely that he cares for you.
 
James said:
Perhaps I am overstating things, but it does seem to have really made life hard at times, if you don't fit the expected role.
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James said:
To me those stereotypes are outdated and damaging.
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I agree with you. In many Eastern belief systems one strived for a balance between yin yang energies (male/female energies).

James said:
Has this had any effect on you, or anyone you know ? I am curious to know what others think.
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The antiquated way of stereotyping males and female's should be reassessed I believe. Some folks would see many of the prejudices that define 'normal' all but disappear should the qualifiers of male/female be redefined--along with many mental health adjustment issues that would magically disappear bc folks wouldn't have to cram themselves into a box which will never 'fit'.

For example, so my meaning remains in context, we are in a time that many folks of either gender are questioning not only their very identity but their sense of self bc they don't 'fit' in the checkboxes of the societal qualifiers that define Male or Female. (this will come back to bite my ass I'm sure)Why should these qualifers continually state that to be a man One needs to act unemotional with a rough and ready tough-ass unbreakable attitude while women are frowned upon for not being shy and demure in their apparently fragile state(?) I live in a place that coined the phrase "American Reneck Ignorance". Some of these folks still have Saturday night fights in the streets just to prove how tough they still are (male as well as female).

...Nonsense. I value the signs of strength and true courage as well as a sensitive sensibility in both men and women. To me it is a courageous act to stand firm in ones sense of self--being true to you--whether in asertiveness or a fit of tears...both prove the passion behind ones convictions. Instead, many follow the herd--tough in the street and emotionally real behind the mask :'( saddens me personally at a deep, deep level bc I see through these folks masks...often seeing the broken soul for whom the mask is supposingly trying to protect...

When given the opportunity, I share the above opinion with those I encounter in the hope that more folks will shine in their true nature for us all to see...some get it, some do not.

James said:
I found an interesting article here that covers the MBTI gender divide quite well. http://www.slayerment.com/mbti-gender
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Thank you James for sharing this :)

Milktoast Bandit said:
I was just trying to fit into a role that everyone expected of me.
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You are not alone. I only grabbed this part of your post, but you're spot on ;).
 
Asa said:
I'm a female F type with a balance of stereotypically "feminine" and "masculine" traits.
Also, women are "supposed" to have Fi, and men are "supposed" to have Fe, being a woman with Fe causes bewilderment.

Many, many people are very put off by my traits that are stereotyped as masculine. At times, this seems to erase the softer and stereotypically feminine traits in other's eyes. Even people who know me well and care about me will grill me about the masculine traits.
I don't think anything about me is masculine. I'm also comfortable being myself without compromising to fit in. Some adore me for this, others not so much. I'm sensitive, so of course I don't like being disliked, but I am unwilling to pretend to be something I am not to earn approval.
I'm accustomed to women who are T and adore them. I also find F an attractive trait in men.
The bigger and stronger a man is, the more he is allowed to be sensitive and compassionate. Most of my male friends who are over 6 feet, and strong, are openly sensitive, compassionate, say "I love you" to their friends more often, etc. Who would challenge them for it? Shorter and smaller men have to wear more behavioral layers to appear manly. It's ridiculous, especially because the big men who show their feelings are applauded for it.

From my POV, most men are sensitive. They're just trained not to show it. I know many T men, and they are all kind, caring, sensitive people, they just save it for a smaller group of individuals than Fs. If my T husband cares about you, he will outshine my compassion and go out of his way to help you to an extreme. It is just unlikely that he cares for you.
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Well said...thank you :)
 
One of the biggest ideas I learned in a class at University (in the early 90's) was that gender is a spectrum. Sex is male, female, or hermaphrodite. Gender has a very wide range. I fully believe this. The male/female gender dichotomy is archaic.

Also, to suggest human beings are not complex, well-rounded creatures with many layers of traits, opposes the very definition of 'human being'.
 
I am a male F type, and I suppose when I was younger I tried to keep what I thought society considered well-and-truly outre close to the breast.

That said, overall I was clearly who I was because of the inevitability of expression that was/is part of the disorder that is ADHD-PI. I’m piss-poor at hiding myself.

I like guy stuff, I like gal stuff, and I like what I like. But I don’t keep anything close to the breast anymore. That’s not healthy for me.

Part of that means choosing things that are true to who I am, regardless of anything else. This would be but one example:


ian_hello_kitty_checkbook by aeon314159, on Flickr

A silly example perhaps, but in a way, it says everything.

Cheers,
Ian
 
I like "F" type guys. I mean, Fe for a man is lovely.

I like talking about feelings. I would rather have a man speak openly about the way he is feeling than suppress it. I don't care if the tears roll, either.

My number one guy is definitely an NiFe. Lol.
 
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