Extroverted feeling and honesty.

[Matty]

Anticipating anyone moaning about Fe vs Fi, just remember this is a typology-centric server.

To me, extroverted feelers seem more likely than extroverted thinkers to say what is polite or considerate, than what is true and honest in many situations.

Some questions
Does the above seem a fair observation?
If you do occasionally/often say what is considerate instead of what is true, does it feel like lying to you?
How do you feel about other people lying to others, or lying to you?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Anticipating anyone moaning about Fe vs Fi, just remember this is a typology-centric server.

To me, extroverted feelers seem more likely than extroverted thinkers to say what is polite or considerate, than what is true and honest in many situations.

Some questions
Does the above seem a fair observation?
If you do occasionally/often say what is considerate instead of what is true, does it feel like lying to you?
How do you feel about other people lying to others, or lying to you?

Yes, but not always for 'good' reasons.

Funnily enough, I was watching something about Hitler yesterday, and was more disturbed by his dishonesty than his evil, lol. He wrote a letter to Stalin in 1941 assuring him that he didn't intend to attack, and I thought 'that is some INFJ shit'.

 

[Wyote]

INFJs tend to lie in the form of omissions of feelings
INTJs tend to lie in the form of omissions of information
INTPs tend to lie in the form of omissions of clarity

Extroverted Feeling doesn't really have anything to do with honesty. Comfort and consideration do not equate to dishonesty.
Everyone navigates socially with some level of dishonesty. It's simple survival.
That all being said, all three types are probably among the most reliable and honest of types once a proper bond is formed.
And all three tend to detest dishonesty from others vehemently/vocally.
Because we understand how tough it is to find real trust from another human.

 

[Matty]

INFJs tend to lie in the form of omissions of feelings
INTJs tend to lie in the form of omissions of information
INTPs tend to lie in the form of omissions of clarity

Extroverted Feeling doesn't really have anything to do with honesty. Comfort and consideration do not equate to dishonesty.
Everyone navigates socially with some level of dishonesty. It's simple survival.
That all being said, all three types are probably among the most reliable and honest of types once a proper bond is formed.
And all three tend to detest dishonesty from others vehemently/vocally.
Because we understand how tough it is to find real trust from another human.

That's a bit vague, idealistic, and generalised; and seems to be more relevant to communication with a purpose behind it. For example, an INFJ may gloss over the likelihood of objections to changing an office coffee machine, while an INTJ may gloss over the ongoing expenses associated with getting a new coffee machine.

I guess my questions are more about concrete and simple expressions of information and opinions. For example, if a friend asks if you think they're too fat. I'd expect an INFJ to lie without hesitation, whereas I'd give my criteria for making my judgement about their weight (eg health outcomes and general medical recommendations), and them give them my candid opinion.

My questions were more about those direct expressions of thought, rather than planned strategic communication.

 

[Wyote]

That's a bit vague, idealistic, and generalised

Not really if you think about it hard enough

My questions were more about those direct expressions of thought

My answer encompasses those and expands on the thought in my own way

 

[Infjente]

For example, if a friend asks if you think they're too fat. I'd expect an INFJ to lie without hesitation, whereas I'd give my criteria for making my judgement about their weight (eg health outcomes and general medical recommendations), and them give them my candid opinion.

I would answer this particular question the 'lame dad' way

Friend: "am I too fat?"
Me: "too fat for what?"
Friend: "ugh, you know what I mean!"
Me: "no, I don't."
Friend: "too fat, as in unattractive?"
Me: "unattractive to whom?"
Friend: *roll eyes* "so you think I'm fat?"
Me: "ooh, if I think you're too fat? No, I like a little meat on my friends... He he."

Not really lying, not really honest.

 

[Ren]

To me, extroverted feelers seem more likely than extroverted thinkers to say what is polite or considerate, than what is true and honest in many situations.

Some questions
Does the above seem a fair observation?

Well, some extroverted feelers are very honest, even blunt, especially where the Fe is dominant.

I agree that Te is generally more likely to correlate with blunt honesty, though.

If you do occasionally/often say what is considerate instead of what is true, does it feel like lying to you?

In a technical sense, I guess this qualifies as lying. I would rather say the truth considerately. Being considerate doesn't have to be about the content of what you say, it can solely focus on the form, and I think there's a great deal to be said for a soft but honest approach.

How do you feel about other people lying to others, or lying to you?

It depends on context. If I discover it and it's gratuitous, I would definitely not be happy about it. But there are too many 'grey area' cases for me to be able to make a final judgement and declare that all forms of lying are heinous. Some certainly are, while others are not (i.e. lying to authorities in a tyrannical regime for example.)

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

I don't agree with doing such beyond little white lies meant to only keep the peace otherwise the truth is important and this is a world where people tend to lie as much as possible for every reason under the sun. All in all those who don't value truth tend to not value a lot of other things all of which leads down some pretty dark roads.

 

[Daustus]

For example, if a friend asks if you think they're too fat. I'd expect an INFJ to lie without hesitation, whereas I'd give my criteria for making my judgement about their weight (eg health outcomes and general medical recommendations), and them give them my candid opinion.

Depends on my investment in the person honestly. If they're a friend, relative or my wife I'll be honest and candid. I'll even help plan out how solve the problem if there really is a problem. If I don't really want to weigh in (Pun intended) I'll likely joke and not really answer the question.

 

[Asa]

People with Fe, or with Fi first in their stacks, tend to care more about delivery.

I omit petty information* that could hurt someone's feelings, or because I know the person has a tendency to over-react about slightly negative news, but I don't omit important information. I try to be direct about important, neutral, or complimentary information.
I pay attention to my friends' insecurities and word responses accordingly to try to make sure I don't exasperate their negative, inner feelings. (I am a complete dork, so sometimes I say the wrong thing anyway.)


I know several people with tertiary Fi and they range from scathingly blunt to careful about how they word things. It depends on how well developed their tertiary Fi is. Women are expected to be more caring and emotional, and in this case, the female INTJs are more careful with their words.


Example of this:
- A friend says another friend's child is ugly. I would not tell that parent. Why?

 

[Matty]

Well, some extroverted feelers are very honest, even blunt, especially where the Fe is dominant.

I agree that Te is generally more likely to correlate with blunt honesty, though.



In a technical sense, I guess this qualifies as lying. I would rather say the truth considerately. Being considerate doesn't have to be about the content of what you say, it can solely focus on the form, and I think there's a great deal to be said for a soft but honest approach.



It depends on context. If I discover it and it's gratuitous, I would definitely not be happy about it. But there are too many 'grey area' cases for me to be able to make a final judgement and declare that all forms of lying are heinous. Some certainly are, while others are not (i.e. lying to authorities in a tyrannical regime for example.)

Thank you for taking the time to actually answer my questions. (Yes that is also a swipe at people who take the time to just be difficult).

You've given me an insight I didn't have before.

I place a very high value on the integrity of information, and for the most part view communication as a transfer of information and ideas, ideally in an efficient manner.

A big blind spot in my life is seeing communication as a component of establishing or maintaining relationships. (I basically have zero interest in maintaining any relationship... Typical INTJ obsession with solitude and independence). I especially appreciated your comment on the form of communication. I can certainly appreciate the value of sacrificing efficiency for the sake of kindness, and by extension, appreciate that some people value the warmth of kindness over information.

Helps me see kindly liars as not being defective or unreliable in communication, but rather, perhaps they are adopting the form of communicating information, for the sake of a different more affective interaction.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

How old are you, @Sometimes Yeah? I'm curious.

 

[PapillonT]

Anticipating anyone moaning about Fe vs Fi, just remember this is a typology-centric server.

To me, extroverted feelers seem more likely than extroverted thinkers to say what is polite or considerate, than what is true and honest in many situations.

Some questions
Does the above seem a fair observation?
If you do occasionally/often say what is considerate instead of what is true, does it feel like lying to you?
How do you feel about other people lying to others, or lying to you?

Honesty and trustworthiness are important to me so I usually try to say the truth. Especially on important issues, even if difficult and uncomfortable, I say it (though it takes a while to overcome my Fe). I could be blunt if necessary, but usually I look for a way to deliver it in a way that will take into consideration other person's perspective and feelings. I find this especially relevant in situations when it's something everybody are aware of but refuse to acknowledge it, usually I just have to speak up then.
On the other hand, when someone is lying, it depends on how close is the relationship; I do try to understand their position and perspective (and in some contexts I think there can be justification for such actions), but overall, I don't tolerate dishonesty so well.
It's a bit like with criticism - if it is not constructive and honest, I rather prefer not to say anything than to omit the truth.

 

[mintoots]

Anticipating anyone moaning about Fe vs Fi, just remember this is a typology-centric server.

To me, extroverted feelers seem more likely than extroverted thinkers to say what is polite or considerate, than what is true and honest in many situations.

Some questions
Does the above seem a fair observation?
If you do occasionally/often say what is considerate instead of what is true, does it feel like lying to you?
How do you feel about other people lying to others, or lying to you?

In line with this, I was always wondering about the link between extraversion-introversion and sense of privacy. Are introverts generally more private or can introverts also be more open? Similarly are extroverts likely to be more open or more private? Does the sense of privacy correlate with acts of honesty or dishonesty to a certain degree? Anyway, just voicing out thoughts.