ENTP/INTP falls hard for INFJ ends up with loads of drama

[Kuzuri]

Hey guys, I am in dire need of advise here.

So, I am an INTP/ENTP and I started talking to this INFJ about 9 months ago. We were nothing more than friends and it was nice to have someone to chat with every once in a while. Time passed and I noticed that she was trying to get me to open up and change me for some reason. I was genuinely scared and so I started opening up because I felt like it was a genuine interest of good friendship. Some more time passed and we became very good friends. We had similar interests like philosophy, psychology etc. and we used to talk a lot. Chats became more and more frequent and then I found myself thinking too much bout her. Fast forward, I started to like her a lot. We were in the same university and had talked only talked over chat during our first semester. When we were called to campus as COVID normalized, she approached me and tried to talk. I totally dissed her because I knew had feelings for her so I would fall head over heals and it would ruin the friendship. After 2 or 3 weeks, I realized that she was worth it and so I did it. I called her on the campus stairs at night and confessed by saying "I like you". We were both silent for a while and it was clear to me that she was not expecting this. Then she was like, "I don't even know you...You don't even know me" so I simply said that I want to. Then she told me that she liked someone else and that it was mutual. And that should have been it but it wasn't. Then we talked for about an hour and we left. I went back, cried a lot. Even next day I was crying alone in the empty lab. Then she called me to have a walk. Then I got to know her over the walk a little more. We started to talk more frequently and I had lost my mental peace after that. I was always doing some of her work just to get her some free time to talk to me. My grades came down, I stopped spending time with my friends and I didn't mind cause it was all for her. I just wanted to be good friends cause I knew how it would feel to the other guy and so she got me his consent as well. We both wanted serious partners and I knew if anything, I want her to be one of my close friends at least once I get my degree. Any possibility of future with her would only be seen after that depending on which paths we choose. She had many brother-like friends in the campus and one off them used to stay in the same hostel as her. They were close and all and then she called me one day asking I thought of her and her brother-like friend. I just told what I did and she told me that she was actually in love with him. He confessed 20 days after I did and he knew about my side. It was again mutual but it didn't feel right. I tried to be as supportive as I could but it was my breaking point. I told her that in the 2 months that I had spent, my attraction has only increased. And then I said that I love her. She was like, I know but I love him. I was absolutely heartbroken and so I blocked her just to keep my head straight. I tried to stay away cause I knew it was best for us to stay apart in such a situation. She approached me, asked me why I was acting like this and I was like, "How do you expect me to?" and we had a fight...and became friends 2 hours after the fight. I promised I would be friends with her no matter what but she became distant. It felt that now she was just using me. So as she went back home, we started having more fights because of "my feelings" and then we blocked each other. That brotherly guy is her boyfriend now and she told me that she is with him forever no matter what. That she and I don't have a future together at all. We both (guys) hate each other which would be quite expected. She was a very caring and understanding friend in those 2 months and she shared the same feelings for me, just a friend nothing more. One day after the final fight, she calls and says, "Please don't have any grudges on me.", I said that I don't.. we laughed and I cut the call. Now she is coming back to the campus and I am not ready to face her at all. I fear being manipulated, being around her with all the feelings and I said it bluntly to her. After all of this drama, I can't help but still love her. I tried to move on by finding someone else, like my pals said, but I didn't want to. I tried looking at her flaws and I ended up accepting her with them. My love only got stronger and she does not share it. Her justification for this sudden change in feelings was that notions change with time. even I called her sister in the very first chat but then neither of mentioned it. It was just my way of dissing new people off. I never called her that again. And she tried to justify her choice by this incident too. She fails to realize that I never used my status to come close to her, unlike him who came close despite knowing she liked someone else and that she thought of him as a brother. It seems like a total manipulation to me from his side even now ngl because she had been traumatized by her previous relationship and was very careful cause of it...she wouldn't just accept him in a month if she was her old self. But I can still sense the old her somewhere. In the final fight I said, "If you respect me, I am a friend for life otherwise if you just need me to do your tasks for you...we are nothing but strangers". I have always been honest, just and understanding with her. For once I was not, and this happened. I still love her and see as my perfect partner but am more interested to be just friends with her till we graduate. I have the least mistake in all of this and am suffering the most. Just because I lover her and she knows and won't respect me. I don't know how I will face her and it hurts like hell. I cry more than I live and its eating me on the inside. I see everything she had done to me but I would forgive her in just 5 mins... I have no clue on what to do with my feelings. They seem unremovable... Please help

 

[mintoots]

Hey guys, I am in dire need of advise here.

So, I am an INTP/ENTP and I started talking to this INFJ about 9 months ago. We were nothing more than friends and it was nice to have someone to chat with every once in a while. Time passed and I noticed that she was trying to get me to open up and change me for some reason. I was genuinely scared and so I started opening up because I felt like it was a genuine interest of good friendship. Some more time passed and we became very good friends. We had similar interests like philosophy, psychology etc. and we used to talk a lot. Chats became more and more frequent and then I found myself thinking too much bout her. Fast forward, I started to like her a lot. We were in the same university and had talked only talked over chat during our first semester. When we were called to campus as COVID normalized, she approached me and tried to talk. I totally dissed her because I knew had feelings for her so I would fall head over heals and it would ruin the friendship. After 2 or 3 weeks, I realized that she was worth it and so I did it. I called her on the campus stairs at night and confessed by saying "I like you". We were both silent for a while and it was clear to me that she was not expecting this. Then she was like, "I don't even know you...You don't even know me" so I simply said that I want to. Then she told me that she liked someone else and that it was mutual. And that should have been it but it wasn't. Then we talked for about an hour and we left. I went back, cried a lot. Even next day I was crying alone in the empty lab. Then she called me to have a walk. Then I got to know her over the walk a little more. We started to talk more frequently and I had lost my mental peace after that. I was always doing some of her work just to get her some free time to talk to me. My grades came down, I stopped spending time with my friends and I didn't mind cause it was all for her. I just wanted to be good friends cause I knew how it would feel to the other guy and so she got me his consent as well. We both wanted serious partners and I knew if anything, I want her to be one of my close friends at least once I get my degree. Any possibility of future with her would only be seen after that depending on which paths we choose. She had many brother-like friends in the campus and one off them used to stay in the same hostel as her. They were close and all and then she called me one day asking I thought of her and her brother-like friend. I just told what I did and she told me that she was actually in love with him. He confessed 20 days after I did and he knew about my side. It was again mutual but it didn't feel right. I tried to be as supportive as I could but it was my breaking point. I told her that in the 2 months that I had spent, my attraction has only increased. And then I said that I love her. She was like, I know but I love him. I was absolutely heartbroken and so I blocked her just to keep my head straight. I tried to stay away cause I knew it was best for us to stay apart in such a situation. She approached me, asked me why I was acting like this and I was like, "How do you expect me to?" and we had a fight...and became friends 2 hours after the fight. I promised I would be friends with her no matter what but she became distant. It felt that now she was just using me. So as she went back home, we started having more fights because of "my feelings" and then we blocked each other. That brotherly guy is her boyfriend now and she told me that she is with him forever no matter what. That she and I don't have a future together at all. We both (guys) hate each other which would be quite expected. She was a very caring and understanding friend in those 2 months and she shared the same feelings for me, just a friend nothing more. One day after the final fight, she calls and says, "Please don't have any grudges on me.", I said that I don't.. we laughed and I cut the call. Now she is coming back to the campus and I am not ready to face her at all. I fear being manipulated, being around her with all the feelings and I said it bluntly to her. After all of this drama, I can't help but still love her. I tried to move on by finding someone else, like my pals said, but I didn't want to. I tried looking at her flaws and I ended up accepting her with them. My love only got stronger and she does not share it. Her justification for this sudden change in feelings was that notions change with time. even I called her sister in the very first chat but then neither of mentioned it. It was just my way of dissing new people off. I never called her that again. And she tried to justify her choice by this incident too. She fails to realize that I never used my status to come close to her, unlike him who came close despite knowing she liked someone else and that she thought of him as a brother. It seems like a total manipulation to me from his side even now ngl because she had been traumatized by her previous relationship and was very careful cause of it...she wouldn't just accept him in a month if she was her old self. But I can still sense the old her somewhere. In the final fight I said, "If you respect me, I am a friend for life otherwise if you just need me to do your tasks for you...we are nothing but strangers". I have always been honest, just and understanding with her. For once I was not, and this happened. I still love her and see as my perfect partner but am more interested to be just friends with her till we graduate. I have the least mistake in all of this and am suffering the most. Just because I lover her and she knows and won't respect me. I don't know how I will face her and it hurts like hell. I cry more than I live and its eating me on the inside. I see everything she had done to me but I would forgive her in just 5 mins... I have no clue on what to do with my feelings. They seem unremovable... Please help

Hey. I'm so sorry for your pain

I think that it's time to let her go. No amount of rationalization here is going to change the fact that she has decided that she doesn't want to be with you. You can be angry as much as you need. This is expected from such pain. Express your pain and tell them, if need be, that you need space. Moving after rejection by itself is already difficult. Add losing a friend to that fray and it's going be more painful. However, you need to be able to find your footing again. You've mentioned your grades have plummeted and in my view this is a sign that this obstacle could affect you in many more damning ways if it should go on. You need to be able to take care of yourself and to address your pain.

Have you ever moved on from someone before? How was that experience like for you? Do you think you can move on from this? To me, you need to be able to get around this grief for your healing.

I'm sorry. Hang in there.

 

[Matty]

My opinion is that men and women shouldn't be friends. It isn't a stable dynamic because of sexual attraction.

 

[aeon]

My opinion is that men and women shouldn't be friends. It isn't a stable dynamic because of sexual attraction.

edit: remaining friends after a more-than-friends relationship ends depends on the way it ended and the people who ended it. Emotional pain and feeling betrayed and/or manipulated certainly isn’t something I would want to build a friendship on.

--------

Friendship with women works for me because I am demisexual and demiheteromantic. I don’t experience sexual attraction to a woman unless I am (1) friends with her, and (2) have a romantic relationship with her with reciprocity. Which might be a way of saying I am the ultimate friends-first guy, or that it takes me forever to see a woman as something other than just a friend.

I’m sure you mean friends and only just friends. Because my girlfriend is my best friend, and that’s been working splendidly. And I tend to prefer friendships with women because of my quite female brain...so said an old test here on this forum.

But if you’re allosexual, as most people are, you might just be right. I have no way to know, because I’m not wired that way.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[slant]

How old are you? What is your previous relationship history?

 

[mintoots]

My opinion is that men and women shouldn't be friends. It isn't a stable dynamic because of sexual attraction.

This isn't an opinion that applies to me either. I have stable long-standing friendships with heterosexual men. I think it depends on how well individuals are at regulating emotions including desires.

 

[aeon]

I think it depends on how well individuals are at regulating emotions including desires.

I have no control over what I feel, and wouldn’t want to. But I absolutely do have control over my choices and actions.

Here, please allow me to be a judgmental prick...if a person says they can’t control their behavior, it is either because they don’t want to, or because they refuse to accept responsibility for their choices and actions. Those people are toxic.

If they are a child in development, or perhaps developmentally disabled, or have TBI, I’ll give them a pass.

To some degree, maturity includes the ability to self-regulate, respect and maintain boundaries, act in one’s own interest, and the ability to delay pleasure and gratification. That’s off the cuff, anyway.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[mintoots]

To some degree, maturity includes the ability to self-regulate, respect and maintain boundaries, act in one’s own interest, and the ability to delay pleasure and gratification. That’s off the cuff, anyway.

It does. All individuals are at different stages in their lives however and so some leeway is polite enough. We can never fully understand the circumstances of others. As long as it isn't at the expense of our respective stability, I think it's fine to be accepting. Else, walking away is a legitimate course of action as an option. Some distance could work magically -peacefully - for healing. If I don't like the show, I switch channels. If the person is not my cup of tea, I move on. If a person is coming too strongly at me, I turn on my force shields using actions and magic words. I think there are those who make mistakes for sure. Maybe a screw in the head got loose or whatever, but we're all fixer uppers in our own way.

I'm afraid in the case of the OP, the need for healing seems important.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

My advice is to move on and finish uni without having this heavy baggage as from what you've posted this can only go down hill. What you need is someone who doesn't play games like this and while you made some mistakes she is a disaster waiting to happen so let that be some other guy rather than yourself. When there are beta orbiters around I wouldn't bother at all.

 

[Kuzuri]

Hey. I'm so sorry for your pain

I think that it's time to let her go. No amount of rationalization here is going to change the fact that she has decided that she doesn't want to be with you. You can be angry as much as you need. This is expected from such pain. Express your pain and tell them, if need be, that you need space. Moving after rejection by itself is already difficult. Add losing a friend to that fray and it's going be more painful. However, you need to be able to find your footing again. You've mentioned your grades have plummeted and in my view this is a sign that this obstacle could affect you in many more damning ways if it should go on. You need to be able to take care of yourself and to address your pain.

Have you ever moved on from someone before? How was that experience like for you? Do you think you can move on from this? To me, you need to be able to get around this grief for your healing.

I'm sorry. Hang in there.

Thanks for asking dude. Nah man, it was my first time. I had never been interested in someone before and even this time, I was conflicted on whether I should confess or not. I did and that night is one of the most beautiful nights I ever had. Its just that circumstances have not been in my favor at all. I have a huge pile of anger and emotion for her and all I need to do is see her picture. Then I am calm as a lake. I feel like I am healing but I can't seem to stop loving her. I do feel attraction to other women but it doesn't feel the same. She unblocked me but I haven't lowered the wall Funny thing is that I am gonna be in the same hostel as her while her boyfriend is gonna be in the other one. The universe can't think of better ways to hurt me I guess. I am freaking out already. All that would be between us is silence.

PS : I ain't feeling the butterflies anymore but whenever I think of her, I can only smile.

 

[Kuzuri]

How old are you? What is your previous relationship history?

I am 18. And I have had no experience/history in this regard. Although I had a huge crush on a girl for 6 years but it was based purely on the looks and nothing else. I tried to keep it as pure as I could this time but that got me nowhere.

 

[slant]

I am 18. And I have had no experience/history in this regard. Although I had a huge crush on a girl for 6 years but it was based purely on the looks and nothing else. I tried to keep it as pure as I could this time but that got me nowhere.

Thanks for the information. I asked to understand more of where you are coming from. This helped a lot.

When you first start dating, I think you have to get used to the experience of dating. Some people are romantics and are not looking for a hookup or good time- we are looking for long time companionship, a life partner, a wife or a husband. It can be hard for romantics to date because in order to find "the one", you have to date a lot of different people and spend time with people to learn what you are like in a relationship and what's important to you long term. We think we know exactly what we are looking for, but experience is often the best teacher and we learn a lot about ourselves when we go through the dating process.

One of the hardest things in dating is learning to move on and keep looking. When we first begin to date, we want to show what good partners we are, we want to be there for people and we try to understand their shortcomings and love them anyway. Sometimes though, we forget what we need to be happy, and focus so much on understanding the other person or being there for them that we ignore what we feel.

As time goes on and you date longer, you learn that a relationship works best when effort is on both sides. So we want show somebody how much we care and love them, and when the other person isn't putting as much effort in we give them the benefit of the doubt. This is GOOD behavior if you're married to somebody, because you will go through rough patches where you need to be patient. But when you are first dating, both people have to prove that they are interested and willing to work for the relationship. As time goes on you learn that you deserve to get the same effort put into the relationship and these types of situations where the other person isn't giving as much as you give become less appealing.

So know this:

It's amazing that you are capable of loving somebody so deeply. And one date, you are going to meet a women who will love you equally deeply and she will be a great wife. In order to find the person who is the right match for you, you will have to forgive your heart when it wants to love somebody who can't love you back. It will seem like it would be so easy, if only this, if only that. Because you have not yet experienced this kind of love, it will be hard for you to convince yourself that it exists and that you should keep looking for it. Until I experienced mutual love, I kept trying to make things work that were not working. It's normal and hard not to do because we are so excited to love and have that experience.

The best thing for you to do is to walk away- not because of her or because of you. But in your heart you know she is not putting in the same effort as you are. There is a woman who is going to be your wife out there who is just waiting to meet you who will be just as excited about love as you are, who will want to be with you and will worry if you want to be with her. She will be nervous to lose you. She will prove she loves you because she wants it to work.

I'm not sure if any of that will help you, it certainly doesn't help during heartbreak, but this is what carries me through all the times I get hurt. I think to myself: what have I learned by dating this person, or having a crush on them? How can I take this experience to help me find somebody who will love and cherish me the same way that I do them? You deserve to be cherished. Remember that.

 

[SkinandnoBones]

Hey guys, I am in dire need of advise here.

So, I am an INTP/ENTP and I started talking to this INFJ about 9 months ago. We were nothing more than friends and it was nice to have someone to chat with every once in a while. Time passed and I noticed that she was trying to get me to open up and change me for some reason. I was genuinely scared and so I started opening up because I felt like it was a genuine interest of good friendship. Some more time passed and we became very good friends. We had similar interests like philosophy, psychology etc. and we used to talk a lot. Chats became more and more frequent and then I found myself thinking too much bout her. Fast forward, I started to like her a lot. We were in the same university and had talked only talked over chat during our first semester. When we were called to campus as COVID normalized, she approached me and tried to talk. I totally dissed her because I knew had feelings for her so I would fall head over heals and it would ruin the friendship. After 2 or 3 weeks, I realized that she was worth it and so I did it. I called her on the campus stairs at night and confessed by saying "I like you". We were both silent for a while and it was clear to me that she was not expecting this. Then she was like, "I don't even know you...You don't even know me" so I simply said that I want to. Then she told me that she liked someone else and that it was mutual. And that should have been it but it wasn't. Then we talked for about an hour and we left. I went back, cried a lot. Even next day I was crying alone in the empty lab. Then she called me to have a walk. Then I got to know her over the walk a little more. We started to talk more frequently and I had lost my mental peace after that. I was always doing some of her work just to get her some free time to talk to me. My grades came down, I stopped spending time with my friends and I didn't mind cause it was all for her. I just wanted to be good friends cause I knew how it would feel to the other guy and so she got me his consent as well. We both wanted serious partners and I knew if anything, I want her to be one of my close friends at least once I get my degree. Any possibility of future with her would only be seen after that depending on which paths we choose. She had many brother-like friends in the campus and one off them used to stay in the same hostel as her. They were close and all and then she called me one day asking I thought of her and her brother-like friend. I just told what I did and she told me that she was actually in love with him. He confessed 20 days after I did and he knew about my side. It was again mutual but it didn't feel right. I tried to be as supportive as I could but it was my breaking point. I told her that in the 2 months that I had spent, my attraction has only increased. And then I said that I love her. She was like, I know but I love him. I was absolutely heartbroken and so I blocked her just to keep my head straight. I tried to stay away cause I knew it was best for us to stay apart in such a situation. She approached me, asked me why I was acting like this and I was like, "How do you expect me to?" and we had a fight...and became friends 2 hours after the fight. I promised I would be friends with her no matter what but she became distant. It felt that now she was just using me. So as she went back home, we started having more fights because of "my feelings" and then we blocked each other. That brotherly guy is her boyfriend now and she told me that she is with him forever no matter what. That she and I don't have a future together at all. We both (guys) hate each other which would be quite expected. She was a very caring and understanding friend in those 2 months and she shared the same feelings for me, just a friend nothing more. One day after the final fight, she calls and says, "Please don't have any grudges on me.", I said that I don't.. we laughed and I cut the call. Now she is coming back to the campus and I am not ready to face her at all. I fear being manipulated, being around her with all the feelings and I said it bluntly to her. After all of this drama, I can't help but still love her. I tried to move on by finding someone else, like my pals said, but I didn't want to. I tried looking at her flaws and I ended up accepting her with them. My love only got stronger and she does not share it. Her justification for this sudden change in feelings was that notions change with time. even I called her sister in the very first chat but then neither of mentioned it. It was just my way of dissing new people off. I never called her that again. And she tried to justify her choice by this incident too. She fails to realize that I never used my status to come close to her, unlike him who came close despite knowing she liked someone else and that she thought of him as a brother. It seems like a total manipulation to me from his side even now ngl because she had been traumatized by her previous relationship and was very careful cause of it...she wouldn't just accept him in a month if she was her old self. But I can still sense the old her somewhere. In the final fight I said, "If you respect me, I am a friend for life otherwise if you just need me to do your tasks for you...we are nothing but strangers". I have always been honest, just and understanding with her. For once I was not, and this happened. I still love her and see as my perfect partner but am more interested to be just friends with her till we graduate. I have the least mistake in all of this and am suffering the most. Just because I lover her and she knows and won't respect me. I don't know how I will face her and it hurts like hell. I cry more than I live and its eating me on the inside. I see everything she had done to me but I would forgive her in just 5 mins... I have no clue on what to do with my feelings. They seem unremovable... Please help

There is a lot here in your post to digest and this is fine. My first thought is and it's a mantra that I've made as part of my core who I am that is nobody gets to define who you are today. Having said this generally speaking I never offer up advice in the general sense of the word simply mainly because however much I may think i know a situation or more importantly a person we are unique and in our uniqueness there are peculiarities, nuisances that speak to our experiences, situations that may not be evident thus this makes it challenging to provide advice.
Considering my feebly attempt to provide a foundation from above sequence of sorts connections, feelings, emotions, heartfelt/deeply connected as these are are usually very complex deep and take time to navigate through speaking from my own personal experience. Then you add the other human factor ie the other person involved simply adds to this complexity.
In my experience all you can do is be true to yourself to know who you are as a person be genuine in your authenticity. In the end when we share this with someone who we feel deeply connected to in more than just an idealistic kinda of way opening ourselves up to become vulnerable it may not work out like we expect or like for it to do so. What can come out of this is a level of hurt, pain, questioning our very being and this to me is the so very hard to reconcile.
I hope you can find the answers of what you desire here.

 

[Pin]

I used to really like an INFJ. The truth was that it was infatuation. She was intelligent, beautiful, kind... Everything you could ask for.

I miss her.