English by non-native speakers

[Oscillation]

I did get through school with pretty good grades in English, but I still find it way much harder to express myself in English than Swedish - of course!
I guess it's because even though I might handle the English language quite well - imo and according to the educational system - it's not even near the level of language I handle in Swedish... so it becomes frustrating not being able to write what my own head thinks.

How many of you non-native speakers feel alike?
Could there be a way of improving this, and get rid of the frustration not being able to express oneself the way you wish you could?

Would it be possible to get some tips and help from you native speakers? Some guidance throughout the times we spend on this forum?
I might be the only one feeling this frustration. It may be because I more often speak about abstract things, and those are much harder to talk about when you don't have the proper vocabolary. How can you, for instance, talk about existance if you don't know the words for the complex concepts it involves?

I will get better though, just wait and see. That's one of the reasons I stick to the forum: I want to learn better English. And talk about interesting subjects, of course, but mostly just get to learn you guys. I like people :> (as long as they don't interfere with my privacy)

 

[Solongo]

I am a non-native English speaker. I experienced what you describe when I was in high school and yes; the brain does need to adjust when trying to express in modes that are culturally acceptable in a specific environemnt. What helps is to understand the way the native language is expressed and notice the difference when expressing in English. I noticed from my experience that expressing in English is more direct and straightforward compared to the way I would have expressed myself in my native language. This has a good and a bad; where english expression may lose some of the cultural significance of certain idioms, metaphors and emotional tone. Studies have shown that thinking in the native language and expressing in a non native language build rational because there is an added process of filtering the expression through another lens; in this case transliteration internally before expressing. This internal transliteration of expression needs to be studied and adjusted for it to be effective. For the most part though; people tend to choose one way; expressing and thinking in one language but i think it is better and more interesting to always play inbetween the modes of expression. You will notice it in different environments; where you will most likely express yourself in various ways when you are around all Swedish community or people and vice versa.

Multilingual children and speakers all seem to have switches that goes on and off depending on the required language usages and expression needed.

 

[Breathlessangel]

English is my 3rd language and don't get to speak it everyday. So I understand how its like..
I learned best through reading novels, fiction and non-fiction and also watching English movies so you will have a feel of what it should be.
The more you are expose to the foreign language the more you learn or you just naturally adapt them..
Being here in the forum also helps a lot since we get to interact with the native English Speakers..
Also, figure out what type or approach of learning is best for you.. are you the visual kind or you learn fast through hearing or writing?
Being frustrated that you can't naturally express your thoughts is natural.. but we can improve by learning through our mistakes.
It all boils down to practice though. We don't become experts overnight. Learning is an everyday affair esp. when it comes to languages.
Keep it up.. you're doing just fine.

 

[Elis]

I actually just found an interesting video on secondary language acquisition which you might find interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shgRN32ubag


I haven't had the time to watch through all of it, and I think it is mostly directed towards language teachers, but I found it very interesting and relevant to language learning. In general I think the most prominent aspect to language learning is being exposed to the language and culture. Don't bother too much with the grammar, it will come with time.

 

[barbad0s]

I want to tell you that... your level of English expression is already far better than that of many native English speakers lol.

Language is about communication. The level of success of your ability to communicate is something that is very difficult to measure...especially when you are already functioning using the language at a very high level. If I were you, perhaps I would try to do lots of research into differences in the nuances between thinking styles, emotional expression and 'signs and symbols' (as they are called in sociology) used in the different cultures of your background and the backgrounds of different English speaking nations, in order to help you practise and make connections between these and the different ways the English language is used as well as that in comparison to your language.

Another thing that I would like to add is that the use of English worldwide is something that is evolving extremely rapidly. While its grammar rules are mainly prescriptive, real life usage of English takes on a descriptive aspect. This means that an important aspect of learning another language is "keeping up" in this real world usage and constant evolution of it, by observing its usage in a variety of newly produced sources (articles, studies, newspapers, advertisements, movies, people in coffee shops, at a restaurant--whatever!)

(I have done a bit of English teaching, have an English teaching certification, and enjoy traveling and learning language myself as well.)

 

[Oscillation]

I want to tell you that... your level of English expression is already far better than that of many native English speakers lol.

Language is about communication. The level of success of your ability to communicate is something that is very difficult to measure...especially when you are already functioning using the language at a very high level. If I were you, perhaps I would try to do lots of research into differences in the nuances between thinking styles, emotional expression and 'signs and symbols' (as they are called in sociology) used in the different cultures of your background and the backgrounds of different English speaking nations, in order to help you practise and make connections between these and the different ways the English language is used as well as that in comparison to your language.

Another thing that I would like to add is that the use of English worldwide is something that is evolving extremely rapidly. While its grammar rules are mainly prescriptive, real life usage of English takes on a descriptive aspect. This means that an important aspect of learning another language is "keeping up" in this real world usage and constant evolution of it, by observing its usage in a variety of newly produced sources (articles, studies, newspapers, advertisements, movies, people in coffee shops, at a restaurant--whatever!)

(I have done a bit of English teaching, have an English teaching certification, and enjoy traveling and learning language myself as well.)

Glad to hear that I can make myself understood
I already understood that, but it feels as if the words I want to say is not the words that come out. But it'll change, I know.

I have no problem in reading English though, just start expression a normal conversation in depth. I guess that's mostly positive.

 

[Oscillation]

I actually just found an interesting video on secondary language acquisition which you might find interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shgRN32ubag


I haven't had the time to watch through all of it, and I think it is mostly directed towards language teachers, but I found it very interesting and relevant to language learning. In general I think the most prominent aspect to language learning is being exposed to the language and culture. Don't bother too much with the grammar, it will come with time.

THIS was a very good watch!
Good work, sir!

 

[thirdhalf]

Would it be possible to get some tips and help from you native speakers? Some guidance throughout the times we spend on this forum?
I might be the only one feeling this frustration. It may be because I more often speak about abstract things, and those are much harder to talk about when you don't have the proper vocabolary. How can you, for instance, talk about existance if you don't know the words for the complex concepts it involves?

Practice. The vocabulary will come eventually. Thinking back about it, the English classes I took (native English speaker myself) spoke about the rules that a lot of every day written and spoken communication in English do not follow. Non-native English speakers tend to speak much more formal and proper English then native speakers do.

And I'd say that you do pretty good already, its fairly easy to understand you.

 

[BrokenDaniel]

I don't remember exactly when i started to understand english and speak it fluidly. Somewhere around junior high i started to get really good grades in foreign lenguages, and i guess it had to do with the internet and also music and english lyrics to a certain degree. Sometimes i catch myself doing "internal monologues" in english without even noticing it haha. However my grammar and syntax aren't that good and i find myself constantly correcting what i write. Also i've been told by a lot of native english speakers irl that my pronunciation bears a lot of from my own mother tongue (spanish).

I struggle with the same thing when it comes to translate what i think here on certain things, or just find the right words to put it more succintly. Reading books/articles on your chosen subjects in english might help a bit i think, specially in philosophy, as you mentioned abstract things, and existence, lenguage is very important in that field, since it works with intangible concepts that not even the ones who speak the same lenguage could grasp at first.

 

[invisible]

i love reading or hearing english written or spoken as a foreign language. it has what i have read that some french people call a "song" that is inflected from the first language of the person using english.

my undergraduate degree was in "English Literature" but i prefer to think of it the way that a couple of my teachers described as "literatures in englishes", because i think that there is no single "English". i think that one of the defining qualities of english as a language is its total resistance to standards of purity. the vocabulary is far larger than any other language because it has a tendency to obtain and adapt foreign language words and their associated concepts. i love this about english, its vibrant variety. it thrills and delights me to observe people using it in different ways.

often when people on this forum reveal that english is not their first language, i am surprised, because as niffer says, some of you tend to be more competent in using english, at least in various ways, than speakers of english as a first language.

 

[Oscillation]

i love reading or hearing english written or spoken as a foreign language. it has what i have read that some french people call a "song" that is inflected from the first language of the person using english.

[...]

often when people on this forum reveal that english is not their first language, i am surprised, because as niffer says, some of you tend to be more competent in using english, at least in various ways, than speakers of english as a first language.

The problem lies within the lack of one's own melody of the language, not necessarily in the language itself. As you say, non-native speakers tend to be better at language than native speakers are. What I miss is my way to build a sentence. I discover more and more how "poetic" they tend to be, reverses the sentence and subordinate clauses, uses specific stressed words, and so on. This is something that I do not manage to translate into English - my way of talking and thinking. So it feels (of course) like an additional filter is applied. It can be frustrating, but for the most part, I'll be honest about, I'm grateful that I at all can speak English ... and that Iäm also fairly good at it.

(This was translated by Google Translate. It's quite early in the morning here.)

 

[barbad0s]

I have the feeling that it's a confidence issue. Maybe if you relaxed a little and stopped worrying about it, you'd filter less and be able to let yourself speak freely. That's where you allow creativity with something to leak in. When you let go and let the words speak for you.

 

[Oscillation]

I have the feeling that it's a confidence issue. Maybe if you relaxed a little and stopped worrying about it, you'd filter less and be able to let yourself speak freely. That's where you allow creativity with something to leak in. When you let go and let the words speak for you.

Yes... you're right... it's definitely a confidence issue. There are many things in my behaviour that concludes to that, as I have found out. For instance my fear of failure. I have lots to work on! Gosh!

 

[barbad0s]

Yes... you're right... it's definitely a confidence issue. There are many things in my behaviour that concludes to that, as I have found out. For instance my fear of failure. I have lots to work on! Gosh!

Lol. You have the confidence somewhere there in you. Just give yourself a chance! there's nothing you need to change. You're everything you need to be already.

 

[invisible]

The problem lies within the lack of one's own melody of the language, not necessarily in the language itself. As you say, non-native speakers tend to be better at language than native speakers are. What I miss is my way to build a sentence. I discover more and more how "poetic" they tend to be, reverses the sentence and subordinate clauses, uses specific stressed words, and so on. This is something that I do not manage to translate into English - my way of talking and thinking. So it feels (of course) like an additional filter is applied. It can be frustrating, but for the most part, I'll be honest about, I'm grateful that I at all can speak English ... and that Iäm also fairly good at it.

(This was translated by Google Translate. It's quite early in the morning here.)

speaking english when your first language is not english gives the english you speak a strange, unexpected melody of its own. just go on speaking it, you will learn.

i wish i will be able to speak other languages one day.

 

[Oscillation]

[...] there's nothing you need to change. You're everything you need to be already.

I don't believe it.

But thanks for the encourage!

 

[poetress]

I can relate to your troubles! I tried reading a lot of literature in school, taking the hardest classes, and going online to find some movies in order to expand my English. I also visited English-speaking countries.

Like you, I also had trouble being more poetic in English, so I made myself read books and books of English poetry to try and see how people manipulate their native language. It's definitely hard, and I think exposure and confidence are a big part of it.

 

[Oscillation]

I can relate to your troubles! I tried reading a lot of literature in school, taking the hardest classes, and going online to find some movies in order to expand my English. I also visited English-speaking countries.

Like you, I also had trouble being more poetic in English, so I made myself read books and books of English poetry to try and see how people manipulate their native language. It's definitely hard, and I think exposure and confidence are a big part of it.

Confidence for sure! Wouldn't it just be wonderful to have it all frome the beginning?

 

[poetress]

Confidence for sure! Wouldn't it just be wonderful to have it all frome the beginning?

The hard work makes our success all worth it in the end. Your English is really good, and you should be proud of that! Good luck with your journey to improve it!

 

[La Sagna]

English is my second language so I can understand that speaking and writing in English doesn't always come out the same way as doing the same in your native language.

Your English is very good, and I find that most of the time non-native English speakers who want to become skilful in writing in English, and in particular who enjoy English literature, become much more adept at writing in English than native speakers. There is actually an advantage, in an observational sense, to being a non-native speaker. I am now much more skilled at writing in English than in French. The main reason is that I read almost exclusively English works.

The key for me was reading, lots and lots of reading. That is how you enrich your vocabulary and learn the nuances of the language.

I will say though, that I believe for bilingual or multilingual people, you are almost a different "character" when you are speaking in a different language. The languages themselves have such different ways of expression and come from such different cultural backgrounds that I don't believe that you can ever exactly translate the way you communicate in one language to another language. In a way, I think that is the charm of having several languages.
French is the language of my childhood and of those intimate relationships and that taints the way I relate to the language and it's use. English is the world of adults, business and academia to me. It has a very different feel when I use it. I am much more adept at writing in English but speaking or writing in English to my father or brothers is fake and stilted.