ENFP+INFJ attraction according to Beebe | INFJ Forum

ENFP+INFJ attraction according to Beebe

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I found this article online about type to type relationships and I thought the description of the type of attraction between INFJs and ENFPs was delightful. I'm married to an ENFP and I totally get what she's saying. I thought I'd share it with you guys.

Beebe introduces another complex layer. He states that seduction most often occurs when a person meets their favorite process as the 5th process in another person. He indicates there is an overwhelming attraction between two processes in this combination: 1 + 5.
Let me clarify with an example. An INFJ’s favorite cognitive process is introverted intuition. Their 5th process is its attitudinal opposite: extraverted intuition. A difference of direction here typically generates conflict, since what one person shares with the world is what the other person uses in the inner realm (see Figure 8).
According to Beebe, when dominant introverted intuition encounters dominant extraverted intuition, it is as if they magically combine to form a “giant intuition” together and characterizes an instance where opposites overwhelmingly attract. Beebe suggests this compelling attraction is far more common than the inverse relationship previously described, and claims the sensation can be highly seductive. I know what he means; I was in an intoxicating relationship of that sort for several years.




There's other type-to-type matching in the free article and INFJs are often used as an example, so it's worth a read for non-ENFP daters too. ;D
Here's the link: http://www.typeinsights.com/FreeArticles/Relationships.pdf

Although the same article also states that ENFPs and INFJs are also attitude-antagonistic and prone to fighting. I obviously disagree in that at least in my particular case experience has proven otherwise to a remarkable degree. Anyone else have experiences of ENFP INFJ match?
 
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[MENTION=4982]Reverie[/MENTION]

There is one girl who has been noticing me a lot in class who might be ENFP, because she really gets animated/excited by even small things that I do or say or how I say them. And she makes it a point to say hi to me and tries to be familiar with me. She seems to read my emotions. Her eyes follow my facial expressions and other nonverbal signals.

I have had a friend who is ENFP for ten years. I didn't actually get her to take the MBTI test, but we can talk for hours and hours and sometimes argue over things for fun. She gets overtly offended sometimes when I say something that is a taboo opinion, but I usually "up the ante" by arguing my internal logic behind my words (Ti) and suggesting that she is hypocritical. We also started an activity group together. We used to have lunch all the time. We would also write emails back and forth effortlessly (I don't even write emails to my INFJ friends!!).

All in all, I'm pretty sure that someone I'm literally attracted to romantically who is ENFP might actually be a "toxic" relationship, as the article suggests.

I have a classmate that I talked to once who is ENFP I think. He's the only one who notices me and vice versa. I mean---REALLY "notice", not just someone I talk to comfortably or interestingly. I actually have had infatuating thoughts about him, so Beebe might be right.
 
[MENTION=3791]knight in battle[/MENTION]
I do kind of get what the article's saying on the communication aspect too. I find I'm on the same page with my husband on a very deep level but talking about the specifics doesn't usually turn out well. The relationship is a little "mute" in some sense, but that said I don't have that deeper level wordless connection with anyone else, so It's more mutual appreciation and working side by side on projects than actual discussions on the whys and hows. :) We lack on conscious communication but agree on goals and what is the essence of the universe, life and everything. He doesn't question my creative ideas because he can somehow understand the essence what I'm representing and communicating and I don't have to worry about him having incompatible values. I mean he's family and history sentimental in a warm loving way. I'm more detached and more general principles. He acts instantly, I'm more action within. I do the planning. He says I'm the brain and he's the brawn. ;D When we're fine within ourselves personally everything's a dance and when either has a personal problem it gets a little more difficult because the communication styles are different, but so far the mutual respect has ensured civil conduct ;D. My big thing is the NF values shared. But it's a preference. ESTPs and INFJs I find have great communication but value differences are the issue there. Sometimes an INFJ picks a thinker and then the F T difference makes one irrational and one moody. ;D
 
@Reverie

It's interesting about "values". There's a guy in my Relationships Group who seems like he is an extrovert with low Ni. ESTP? The thing is, though, I find him very charming, despite his lack of "insight". Sometimes, it's nice that we find people with different values. I actually find some NTs very charming, even though they're so focused on achievements, technical knowledge, and gadgets. The mutual mystique is what draws us together. My INTP friend, for example, is a good mix of same (Ti Fe) and different (Si Ne), so there's enough commonality to keep us from becoming completely "off".

The thing with ENFPs (and less so with INFPs), though, is just as you say: verbal communication is war when you're talking on a deep level. INFPs and me "do" things very well together when we're not talking.

The funny thing, though, is that my INTP friend is similar. We interact very well on a nonverbal "intuitive" basis and not as much when I'm having fun and getting wild (Ni Fe Se).

The common thorn: Ne.
 
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[MENTION=3791]knight in battle[/MENTION] I agree on the different values and styles thing. I mean socially I think ESTPs are a hoot and ENTJs are great. So are ISFPs and ISTPs. My wording wasn't really good but it's hard to find wording for what I want to say. I mean that atleast my ENFP husband has a similiar understanding of what the purpose for life is and about spiritual things. As I said we agree but I think we get to the same point via a different road. I don't really understand his so I leave it be and focus more on the end result. In contrast my previous relationship was with someone I was communicating very well with but who was a philosophical materialist. I really appreciate not having to have converations with that framework constantly in the background. But that's just my preference. ;D I think the difference with INFPs and ENFPs is that ENFPs are less emotional. From what I've gathered Fi is the leading function for INFPs and Ne for ENFPs. It's kinda like ENFJs who are Fe lead and us INFJs Ni lead. :)
Haha. Guess I think Silence is golden and talking overrated. XD Well I'm an old fart. Everything's been said already. ;)
 
[MENTION=4982]Reverie[/MENTION]

ESTPs are a hoot
What is it that makes them a "hoot"?

ENTJs are great. So are ISFPs and ISTPs.
What is it exactly do you like about each of these? I recognize ISFPs very quickly. They "see" me. They notice and appreciate me. They try even to please me sometimes when they are feeling secure. ISFPs are to me what I am to INTPs. (cf. Socionics, Relations of Benefit).


I think the difference with INFPs and ENFPs is that ENFPs are less emotional. From what I've gathered Fi is the leading function for INFPs and Ne for ENFPs.
Each of these are interesting creatures in their own right.

ENFPs are noticeably less emotional, yes, although I do have one ENFP friend who was had a strong "punch" in her personality. (Still not entirely sure whether she might be ESFP, but somehow I doubt it. She does not act (Se) well.)

INFPs are very sneaky individuals. It's very difficulty to figure them out what they truly believe and think. But that is part of the fun, is it not (i.e., sifting them out)? They believe they are on top of the world. They believe they have it all, but they do not.

I know an ENFP who is soft-spoken and a very attentive listener. Not judgmental. Not argumentative. Slightly shy. Pleasant and fun. He is less developed in the pointy punch aspect of Ne, perhaps.


It's kinda like ENFJs who are Fe lead and us INFJs Ni lead. :)
I have never truly understood ENFJs. Well. It is more correct to say, I understand them only too well. I had a professor whom I sifted in my mind and concluded that she was ENFJ. She had that Ni quality of being able to see multiple sides of an issue---being open and tolerant and joins in with the rest of Politically Correct Academia in standard "protest" of the status quo---but she also had that judgmental side of drawing the lines, so that in actuality she is not only declaring but enforcing the status quo. "That is how things could really be better, but this is how things are, so obey."

I love the way my Ni can non-verbally bring distress to my ENFJ professor and to my ENFJ acquaintance. This is because they "see" that I am on to something. They "know" that I am internally, silently questioning their established ideas. They know that I will reform them and will expose them as aiding the Establishment while saying the words of NF reform.

I have conversational closeness with one ENFJ classmate--possibly two of them, even.


Guess I think Silence is golden and talking overrated.
Silence is a very strong speech. It can derail the most assertive, most logical, most forceful individuals.
 
What is it that makes them a "hoot"?
I have a few very quick witted ESTP friends who I engage in delightful playful repartee. ;D joking around and being a big monkey at times. The flow is great. It's like anecdotal pingpong.


What is it exactly do you like about each of these? I recognize ISFPs very quickly. They "see" me. They notice and appreciate me. They try even to please me sometimes when they are feeling secure. ISFPs are to me what I am to INTPs. (cf. Socionics, Relations of Benefit).
I've worked with many ISFPs and I admire their productivity and poise. the ones I know are very unpretentious. I just generally like to discuss work related things with my ISFP acquaintances. They care more about what their work means to them than the social benefits side of it. I don't much care for that either so we can just discuss the thing in itself. :)
ISFJs have great work ethic and are sweet and lovely and we have a mutual respect I find. Both are concerned with other's feelings and are tactful. They're more tactful than me though... ;D







I have never truly understood ENFJs. Well. It is more correct to say, I understand them only too well. I had a professor whom I sifted in my mind and concluded that she was ENFJ. She had that Ni quality of being able to see multiple sides of an issue---being open and tolerant and joins in with the rest of Politically Correct Academia in standard "protest" of the status quo---but she also had that judgmental side of drawing the lines, so that in actuality she is not only declaring but enforcing the status quo. "That is how things could really be better, but this is how things are, so obey."

I love the way my Ni can non-verbally bring distress to my ENFJ professor and to my ENFJ acquaintance. This is because they "see" that I am on to something. They "know" that I am internally, silently questioning their established ideas. They know that I will reform them and will expose them as aiding the Establishment while saying the words of NF reform.

I have conversational closeness with one ENFJ classmate--possibly two of them, even.
I think the reason ENFJs are more conventional than INFJs is because they care more for people's feelings than the novel idea. they are also more aware of the emotional impact, I feel, because their Fe lead. I can't remember where I read it, but I remember someone (maybe Dion Fortune ???I can't remember) wording it approximately this way: The rebel who wants to push things to change too swiftly for comfort and the conservative who digs his heels in to keep things from changing are both violent men. The first would forcefully pull everyone to his vision despite the discomfort it causes them and the latter would halt progress altogether despite the anguish it would cause the majority to stagnate. things flow slower than the vision us INFJs get at times. ENFJs are more concerned with others' feelings and their need for safety and comfort. They are the protective mother. Change is hard for people to handle and I think ENFJs are more sensitive to the delicacy of that process whereas we (especially when emotional disturbance cuts us off from Fe) love the idea, the vision more (like ENFPs who love that future thing like mom's baking). In Buddhism they say wisdom and compassion are the two wings that propel us to enlightenment and both must be equally strong. I sometimes think I'm more vision when my ENFJ friend is more heart. I'd like to be as considerate really. :) it's certainly something to aspire to. I think time has kind of smoothened my rebellious edges in that sense. I kind of look up to my close ENFJ as my role model for genuine kindness. :)
 
[MENTION=4982]Reverie[/MENTION]

Ha. I saw a father of two kids at a gathering that I had met before in the past. Immediately he was caring and was concerned about my financial/career situation. I like him. He's a matured ENFJ. But I could tell he was less "random" and was slower to catch onto my conversational agenda. His attention was almost always partly centered on me, so that the ideas that I put forth in a very lighthearted way were "translated" by him into a "lesson" for his kids, who were present, and for the rest of us. Hence the classical ENFJ "Teacher". But for me, it was meant to be a fun "jab party", where I just bring up a whole bunch of delightful anecdotes and stories to describe funny situations... while still fitting it all into a semi-serious, "useful" "lesson".

ENFJs know to get off my back, whereas ENFPs don't. But ultimately they know that I'm different.

It's nice being different and separate from their Extroverted dependence on the group. :D
 
[MENTION=3791]knight in battle[/MENTION]
I get you in a way but you cannot be wholly independent in any sense either. We are all interdependent like it or not. You know the old "No man is an island unto himself". If I'm gonna go all mystical INFJ on this: We're all threads in a larger web supporting one another and I believe on some metaphysical level we all are one, though many. :) I've had to pay a heavy price in my life for thinking I was somehow a completely separate, independent unit. My own fall has been my pride, inaccessability and being unintentionally condescending. Then I had to eat a huge dose of humble pie, be cut off from everyone and most terrible of all find myself relating to Celine Dion lyrics.
[video=youtube_share;gq28UQmxDnw]http://youtu.be/gq28UQmxDnw[/video]
Beware!!! ;D
 
[MENTION=4982]Reverie[/MENTION]

I've had to check my attitude of condescension a lot as well. :(

I used to think interdependency was overrated. Then, I realized that I do need a few people to hang out with + a couple of support groups every week. It's made me a healthier hermit. :D
 
[MENTION=3791]knight in battle[/MENTION]

I'm reading this great book Buddhism with an Attitude ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/1559392002/?tag=infjs-20 ) where the author made a great point I hadn't thought of before, but it's really obvious: He was speaking about training yourself to be grateful for other people and mentioned all the work other's do to support us: They may be cooks, manufacturers, garbage disposal men or the person who sells you a cup of coffee. because they do what they do they enable us to live comfortable lives. Without this we might not be able to even attempt self improvement etc. A lot of effort goes into things. He said it's good to thank people in your mind when you receive their service. I thought that was very good advice. :)
 
Without this we might not be able to even attempt self improvement etc.
Hmm.. the hierarchy of needs.

It seems practical to appreciate the people who do these practical things. Quite another thing to show the appreciation.
:(
 
[MENTION=4982]Reverie[/MENTION]

I'm not sure I "recognize" any ESTPs. I do believe I know a couple ESFPs, though, and they are great. How would you recognize an ESTP? I know one, perhaps. He's popular, but stunned and silent when around me. He seems to see that I am fun on a level that he can "tune into".

I seem to agree with Duniho that INTPs are best, because they are on the same "energy level", and my personal experience shows that I was close to an ENTP and INTP, but emotionally closer to the INTP.

The ENFPs require some getting used to, although my ENFP cousin had no trouble identifying me as his favorite cousin. Our relationship shows that there is just no comparison to how well we are drawn to each other. I assume this would be true in a romantic relationship for me as well.
 
@ Knight in Battle http://www.personalitypage.com/ESTP.html has a good description, though I have to say I'm not entirely convinced that it is the best policy to over think every social interaction and rely too much on MBTI though I can see that you're quite young and probably just trying to figure out the world of social interaction. Thinking less is my recommendation though. :) Or if you're really really interested get some books on social psychology and go for it with a solid method. ;)
 
<-----jumping in with with all four hooves. i have taken that darn test so many times (probably to many times I am sure) and I keep coming up with the same 5 results. <sigh> i am not looking for this to be the definition of who I am, however I would like to feel that the letters I display are accurate and consistent. Or I just want to put MBTI: MUTT. I am ok with mutt, I love mutts. So I am throwing myself out here and since I have already spent time on the INTJ forum, going through forum boot camp, and learning that there was a reason that the INTJ who referred me to the test, and I as well, questioned my INTJ results from the start. And i know exactly what questions on the test make me bounce around like a lottery ball, landing on one of the following...INFJ, ENFJ, INFP. INTP and ISTP. <sigh> so there it is.

And could someone direct me to someone who can help me get an avatar of my filly uploaded? :) ~cowgirl~
 
[MENTION=4982]Reverie[/MENTION]

I'm open to social psychology and MBTI and everything in between. I want to meet an ESTP!
 
Was Beebe the first one to point this out? (not even Jung did?)

If so, fucking legend.
 
Hello, know what...i am dying to meet other INFJs out there. I don't know but as an enfp, they just interest me so much. I know i sound kind of selfish but it makes me happy to meet these people who takes care of other's secretly despite the fact they themselves need to be taken care of and be understood. See they're heroes. They are unsung heroes. They listen to you all the time yet most of us misinterpret them as snub or selfish or some kind of stuff but inside them they're struggling too We're glad to have them because they take care of us, but if they have their problems shared, they share it to a few and they even have to muster enough energy to tell it and most of us find them eccentric, so they just withdraw... They just can't help themselves to help others. These people aren't show off. I just can't understand why when i am with my infj friend, it's like I could stay awake all day wanting to listen to him and be with him and listen to what he says and there's no dull moments, eventhough sometimes or most of the times i dominate our talk, i always look forward to what he must say, because i know it's full of sense and meaning to him. For with the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.. The only problem when im with him is myself, i see myself unworthy of all his time. I say things sometimes that hurt him or my intuition that is always expressed outwardly hurts him and i am afraid to so i try to keep out of him. I don't want him to be labeled as something because of me. I don't know but i feel as if he's mad at me because yes, he likes enfps but i feel that on his mind, he doesn't like me...there are even certain actions that he wants me to stop. I was hurt but nvm, it's what he wants..

JUST saying that for an ENFP like me, truly, INFJs are great, deep and intersting persons, i just don't know with the INFJ's view on ENFPs like us. I have read many posts and forums that INFJs despises ENFPs when they cross limits. And that when an infj dates an enfp, when they get home, the enfp lists of all the reasons why this relatonship can succeed, on the other hand, the infj thinks on the reasons why this relationship can't continue. I don't know, i tink it just depends on the situation. But as enfps, we are sensitive and jealous sometimes, irrational also, we want attention especially from infjs but sometimes infjs need a break and needs space, talks with other types, disregarding us, with or without knowledge that they're hurting us in a way, but as for me, i understand this trait of infj. It is what they want ...and all i see here is that we just have to respect each other even when it hurts.
 
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I am an INFJ who has an extremely close male friend who is an ENFP. We get along extremely well. We are very close. He shares both his light side but also his darker side with me that he doesnt share with others. He's always there for me and is extremely loyal as I am to him. I hope we can be friends a long time. There is nothing he does that repulsed me, although he does things I would not do. As with any relationship understanding the other person is different is key and not expecting them to be like me. He needs to be around lots of people more than I do. He will tell little white lies to get his way. He is the sweetest guy thought and when I was sick he and his girlfriend took me in and took care of me. Sometimes he makes fun of my INFJ eccentricities, but it is light-hearted. Where INFJs stray from the norm, ENFP will point it out a little.
 
My daughter is 21 years old and an ENFP, I had her take the MTBI test about a month ago and when I found this out a lot of puzzle pieces fell into place for me.

I have never had a more complex and tumultuous relationship with another human being in my life!

I can honestly say I was afraid of my own kid for many years, however she hasn't lived with us for about two years now so we are healing.

The biggest issue for us from my perspective is she puts her emotions out there with such FORCE, there's no word to describe her when she gets into this place. It completely freaks me out and I will literally run from it, I cannot deal with it, I want to crawl into a hole and die if I can't get away from it. When I run from her she interprets this as "Mom doesn't care about me", which isn't true at all of course, but that's how she feels, this just adds fuel to her anger (or sadness) and round and round we go.

On the other end of the spectrum, she and I have a cool connection and can talk for hours and hours about things that I can't or don't talk to anyone else about, I don't have many peeps in my life I can do that with, well really the count is a whopping two, ha!