Eastern and Western Philosophy

[Barnabas]

I may be wrong but these have been the big guys in philosophy for the last 2000 years right?

What about other groups and peoples, are there Jewish and Babylonian philosophers, what about African?

All I ever hear about these days are the Greeks, surely they weren't the first to ponder.

 

[muir]

Kabbalism infuses with the western mysteries.

Many of the 'mysteries' it is claimed go back to Sumerian civilisations.

Proto-indo European culture has left its trace in cultures and religions.

Egypt is part of Africa and they have had a massive impact on western thought as well.

The mediteranean was a melting pot of ideas. Christianity was just one strand of thought that came out of it.

Unknown to many christians there are many interpretations of christianity. For example some people believe that Jesus was effectively a magician who was influenced by eastern spiritual systems and ideas.

Many parts of Africa had a shamanic tradition but this was brutally and bloodily persecuted by western imperialists claiming to be acting in the name of what they saw as the one true god.

 

[Barnabas]

Kabbalism infuses with the western mysteries.

Many of the 'mysteries' it is claimed go back to Sumerian civilisations.

Proto-indo European culture has left its trace in cultures and religions.

Egypt is part of Africa and they have had a massive impact on western thought as well.

The mediteranean was a melting pot of ideas. Christianity was just one strand of thought that came out of it.

Unknown to many christians there are many interpretations of christianity. For example some people believe that Jesus was effectively a magician who was influenced by eastern spiritual systems and ideas.

Many parts of Africa had a shamanic tradition but this was brutally and bloodily persecuted by western imperialists claiming to be acting in the name of what they saw as the one true god.

I know of the bolded, most serious Christians know about claims like these. There are even stranger things to come out of the early pseudo-Christian sects, like one whee Jesus walked out of his tomb ten feet tall and another where it was stated that he said that any women who wants to be saved must become a man(I think I got that right).

The Muslim world was very advanced at one time, I bet some of there Philosophy would be fun to read over.

 

[muir]

The part about women needing to become men reminds me of a common theme in magic thought.

It is the idea that you must discover the opposite within yourself and reconcile yourself to it.

For a man that would mean embracing the female aspect within them as part of the process of merging the microcosm with the macrocosm.

The muslims passed on much knowledge to the crusaders who brought it back to Europe

 

[Barnabas]

The part about women needing to become men reminds me of a common theme in magic thought.

It is the idea that you must discover the opposite within yourself and reconcile yourself to it.

For a man that would mean embracing the female aspect within them as part of the process of merging the microcosm with the macrocosm.

The muslims passed on much knowledge to the crusaders who brought it back to Europe

Ah...., EPM if I'm not correct or at least it appears so. Accept both parts of yourself to find that there is truly only one. Interesting

Why do I have a feeling that Muslims and Crusaders didn't always converse civilly.

 

[muir]

Whats EPM?

Sure there was a lot of conflict driven by various forces; for example desire for power and wealth veiled by religious fervour.

But beneath all that were other currents of thought.

Many ideas were kicking about the mediterranean at that time.

Neoplatonism, kabbalah, gnosticism, sufism, tantric, esoteric knowledge (claiming to be descended from the Zoroastrian magi) etc

Some knights learned of these different systems while they were in the Holy land and they began using them. Many gave up their Roman Catholic beliefs and began using more spiritual methods hoping to attain unity with the divine in this life.

 

[Barnabas]

NAI!!!!, where are you

 

[Barnabas]

Whats EPM?

Sure there was a lot of conflict driven by various forces; for example desire for power and wealth veiled by religious fervour.

But beneath all that were other currents of thought.

Many ideas were kicking about the mediterranean at that time.

Neoplatonism, kabbalah, gnosticism, sufism, tantric, esoteric knowledge (claiming to be descended from the Zoroastrian magi) etc

Some knights learned of these different systems while they were in the Holy land and they began using them. Many gave up their Roman Catholic beliefs and began using more spiritual methods hoping to attain unity with the divine in this life.

Interesting, I should actually get to hear more about this in my western civ class thus semester.

EPM is a broad designator of world views, Easter Pantheistic Monism.

 

[muir]

It's worth looking into....an interesting path

 

[magister343]

I remember reading once that Aztec philosophy was surprisingly advanced, and that there are actually more extant Aztec than Greek works of philosophy. However most of these texts are rarely studied and remain very obscure.


I think where I read that may have been in Charles C. Mann's 1491, which I just noticed is the main source of comparatively short wikipedia article.

One thing that article didn't mention is Mann's explaination of the common accounts that the Aztecs thought the Spanish were Gods. The word teotl is often translated "god" but is really much more generic that than. In their belief god was in all things, so whenever they encountered something for which they did not have a term they referred to the divinity within it. This does not mean they considered the Spanish to be in any way more divine they they considered themselves, or anything else in the world.

 

[Barnabas]

I remember reading once that Aztec philosophy was surprisingly advanced, and that there are actually more extant Aztec than Greek works of philosophy. However most of these texts are rarely studied and remain very obscure.


I think where I read that may have been in Charles C. Mann's 1491, which I just noticed is the main source of comparatively short wikipedia article.

One thing that article didn't mention is Mann's explaination of the common accounts that the Aztecs thought the Spanish were Gods. The word teotl is often translated "god" but is really much more generic that than. In their belief god was in all things, so whenever they encountered something for which they did not have a term they referred to the divinity within it. This does not mean they considered the Spanish to be in any way more divine they they considered themselves, or anything else in the world.

I had no clue that the Aztec's were pantheist, it surely spreads some light on
on there reactions though.

 

[magister343]

Panentheist. They didn't believe that the universe and god were synonymous, but that the divine was immanent in everything while also transcending beyond all.

Apparently true polytheism was common among the lower classes, but not the elites. The priests considered their rituals, mythology, and pantheon to be symbolic simplifications of a deeper mystery which commoners were generally not able to understand. They thought of everything in the myth as well as in reality as but a manifestation of a single whole in which things that appear opposed are at a deeper level identical.



Also, when we speak of the Aztecs we talk not of one people, but an alliance between three distinct nations. The Azteca were one of them, but the dominant group was the Mexica, for whom Mexico was named. Also, note that at the time that was transliterated "x" in Spanish generally made the "sh" sound, so "Meshica" would be a better transliteration. The proper pronunciation of Mexico is really Meshico rather than Mehico, but most Mexicans outside of the southernmost states don't even know that.

 

[Barnabas]

Panentheist. They didn't believe that the universe and god were synonymous, but that the divine was immanent in everything while also transcending beyond all.

Apparently true polytheism was common among the lower classes, but not the elites. The priests considered their rituals, mythology, and pantheon to be symbolic simplifications of a deeper mystery which commoners were generally not able to understand. They thought of everything in the myth as well as in reality as but a manifestation of a single whole in which things that appear opposed are at a deeper level identical.



Also, when we speak of the Aztecs we talk not of one people, but an alliance between three distinct nations. The Azteca were one of them, but the dominant group was the Mexica, for whom Mexico was named. Also, note that at the time that was transliterated "x" in Spanish generally made the "sh" sound, so "Meshica" would be a better transliteration. The proper pronunciation of Mexico is really Meshico rather than Mehico, but most Mexicans outside of the southernmost states don't even know that.

Can't say I know much about this area, but it is interesting.